Kirkpatrick was a bad pick....

[tlotharw]

Originally Posted by DennyG2

like most posts from this dude...wow...just wow!!!

This is really insightful. Thanks for your notorious lack of a point.

[wolfkaosaun]

Originally Posted by tlotharw

When you are unable to refute the argument, attack the person.

Something you just did?

Also, can't call someone a bad pick after their first year. If we did, Peyton (winning record wise), Eli, Brees would all be considered 'bad picks' I suppose.

Is that not good enough? Calvin Johnson was also a bad pick then.

There's your refute, sir.

[tcholas]

We still can't evaluate if it is good or bad, because the kid didn't play!!

Let's wait a few more years of playing time to consider him a bust. I personally didn't like him from beginning, but the first impression its not always right.

tcholas

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by tlotharw

When you are unable to refute the argument, attack the person.

Did not think it was worth refuting to anyone with a resemblance of brain function.

He did not get a hang nail or pull a hammy. He received a concussion on a violent football play. It is good business to protect a business investment. Probably could have went given the time frame but why risk it?

He is a rookie and to talk about trading him is frankly completely ignorant. However, I find no surprise as to who is depending the ignorance.

Anything else?

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by tlotharw

This is really insightful. Thanks for your notorious lack of a point.

Little story about a pot and a kettle.

Seems you like to point out others while you do the exact thing you are attempting to point out. Irony.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by CJTJ019

I understand the op's frustration with Dre being unable to stay healthy..but to consider a trade at this point is downright stupid... Theres no way any team would part with any player/pick for a player unproven and cant remain healthy...This ones on Marvin...To somewhat rush him back and throw him in on Special teams..??..Not so bright,,

Not so bright does come to mind but it has nothing to do with the handling of Dre.

Rushed back? Could you please explain this? Curious as to how you arrived at the conclusion that he was rushed back. There have actually been comments taking shots at Marvin for being to cautious with Dre's return.

Secondly STs are a significant part of any NFL gameplan and there is no reason at all for him not to be a part of it especially since he is not a starter. If we do not use 2nd and 3rd team players on ST then where might you suggest we get these players from consider roster limitations?

[68Firebird]

If this were a simple case of "guy got a concussion" nobody would be complaining.

But this isn't his first setback. Or his second..... And the season isn't nearly over with 25% left to play and with the team on an important stretch run.

I said this on the boards here (and got negative rep for it ) : He is too fragile to play in the NFL. Too light and small, not the right type of body build to last anything close to a full season, and did not have the skill set to be a #1 or #2 CB in a man system (what the Bengals run).

People jumped my "ship" like crazy. My favorite was "Mike Zimmer NEVER would pick him if he couldn't do it". Yeah, right..... because the BEngals NEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVER get picks wrong, right?..... RIGHT ?!

[momadance02]

You're ridiculous.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by 68Firebird

If this were a simple case of "guy got a concussion" nobody would be complaining.

But this isn't his first setback. Or his second..... And the season isn't nearly over with 25% left to play and with the team on an important stretch run.

I said this on the boards here (and got negative rep for it ) : He is too fragile to play in the NFL. Too light and small, not the right type of body build to last anything close to a full season, and did not have the skill set to be a #1 or #2 CB in a man system (what the Bengals run).

People jumped my "ship" like crazy. My favorite was "Mike Zimmer NEVER would pick him if he couldn't do it". Yeah, right..... because the BEngals NEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVER get picks wrong, right?..... RIGHT ?!

So is this to say AJ is not going to make it? He is very slight in frame as well.

[tlotharw]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Did not think it was worth refuting to anyone with a resemblance of brain function.

He did not get a hang nail or pull a hammy. He received a concussion on a violent football play. It is good business to protect a business investment. Probably could have went given the time frame but why risk it?

He is a rookie and to talk about trading him is frankly completely ignorant. However, I find no surprise as to who is depending the ignorance.

Anything else?

Yes. Your first sentence Is indecipherable. In addition, "however, I find no surprise as to who is depending the ignorance" needs interpretation. Please clarify both comments.

I agree that keeping him out after receiving a concussion while trying to play hard for the Bengals is the right move. I also agree that trading him would be wrong at this point. But, I think you can admit that for a first round pick, he has contributed next to zero.

[68Firebird]

Originally Posted by momadance02

You're ridiculous.

You're a homer.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Why are we even seriously talking about trading Dre? We showed patience with Andre Smith and look how he turned out..

Jesus you guys are absolutely ridiculous.

[Synric]

Originally Posted by Scotty Potty

So let me get this straight, you and a few others here agree with me about Kirkpatrick, but yet i'm being a troll??? LOL I for one didn't like this pick to begin with because he played a zone defense at Alabama and we run basically man to man here, which this kid just isn't suited for....

Alabama plays alot of cover 2. That means Dre jammed the WR at the line of scrimage and turned to keep himself between the WR and the QB aka bumb and run which is man coverage. No he didnt do alot of backpedaling, but the whole "injury" thing at the beginning of the season was so that the coaches could work on his technique.

http://draftbreakdown.com/dre-kirkpa...-arkansas-2011 (good video to watch)

Here is a video of Dee Milliner who is considered the best CB prospect in this years draft. Notice he plays with the exact same technique because that's what they teach at Alabama.
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/dee-milliner

[68Firebird]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

So is this to say AJ is not going to make it? He is very slight in frame as well.

I don't know the level of intelligence of people you typically hang around, your level of education, career, etc. but I will tell you that replies like this will not go well for you. Do you know why? Because little somethings called FACTS, DEDUCTIVE & INDUCTIVE REASONING are great friends of mine.

According to NFL.com

When coming out of college AJ Green weighed 211lbs at 6'4"

When coming out of college Dre Kirkpatrick weighed (a generous) 186lbs at 6'1"

From the NFL's draft preview, and I quote:

"Kirkpatrick has issues that surround all aspects of his prospects and overall value as he enters the draft.He is very thin and some will question his ability to play physically at the next level. Although he has always been advertised as a cornerback, his size and athletic ability could encourage a transition to safety. It remains to be seen if Kirkpatrick can add weight to compete at that position after three years at Alabama where his physical development was minimal."

- This was NEVER an issue with AJ Green.

- His role as a WR is to separate himself from DBs - not draw the same kind of contact a DB does on every play. WRs do not hit people on a regular basis like CBs do.

I could go on and on and on as to why this kid is different from AJ Green physically. But I shouldn't have to at this point in our debate, should I?

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by tlotharw

Yes. Your first sentence Is indecipherable. In addition, "however, I find no surprise as to who is depending the ignorance" needs interpretation. Please clarify both comments.

I agree that keeping him out after receiving a concussion while trying to play hard for the Bengals is the right move. I also agree that trading him would be wrong at this point. But, I think you can admit that for a first round pick, he has contributed next to zero.

There's no disputing that he's contributed next to nothing this year but suggesting that a first round pick should be traded, after 12 games, is pretty ridiculous.

[Lolli]

While I did not like the pick, I am not willing to give up on the guy. He still has yet to be tested as a CB. If that does not work out, he might be a good safety.

I have seen nothing to say he should be thrown in the river yet.

[umkubas]

The matter of a concussion was brought up. Is this the cuase of Kirkpatricks absence on the playing field.

I believe the reason for Kirkpatricks absence was damage to his knee (?) from training camp.

Trading the 17th pick for an unknown pick or player would be foolish but the Cincinnati Bengals are known for foolishness and stupidity.

[ct_bengal]

Kirkpatrick will be fine, heck he was considered a top ten pick at one point until he got busted with pot. And he actually likes being in Cincinnati, he bought a billboard to say thank you - so give him a chance not his fault coaches aren't playing him.

[BoomerFan]

Originally Posted by ct_bengal

Kirkpatrick will be fine, heck he was considered a top ten pick at one point until he got busted with pot. And he actually likes being in Cincinnati, he bought a billboard to say thank you - so give him a chance not his fault coaches aren't playing him.

That's actually pretty cool about the billboard. Didn't know that. Hopefully he turns into something special. Hall and Joseph weren't amazing their rookie years either, so I'm willing to give him some time.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by BoomerFan

That's actually pretty cool about the billboard. Didn't know that. Hopefully he turns into something special. Hall and Joseph weren't amazing their rookie years either, so I'm willing to give him some time.

Maybe not amazing, but pretty darn good.

Hall had 14pdef and 5ints in 10 starts his rookie year.
Joseph had 20pdef in 9 starts.

Maybe we've been spoiled by those two, but Kirkpatrick isn't looking too good strictly from an injury standpoint. It doesn't matter if he's the next Deion Sanders if he can't stay healthy long enough to do anything.

[CinciREborn]

I dont understand how people can bash scotty potty for this thread...........

how has kirkpatrick been a good pick so far?

Im sorry I thought you just guys who make impacts with a first pick?

do I not understand the concept of a first round pick?

when you have to make excuses for a first round pick no matter how valid it is, it still is an excuse. either it was a good pick or it wasnt...

so far..... not looking so good

[BengalRugby]

Kirkpartick has not shown a lot on the field so far, but to give up on him so soon is foolish.As others have stated, look at Andre and his foot injury, as well as being out of shape his rookie season. Now he's come into his own and is playing very well. Had the Bengals given up on him that first season, they would be a laughing stock.


Same will be said if the Bengals foolishly gave up on Kiirkpatrick so soon. Give the rookie time, and I hope he is soaking up all the vet's insights. The Bengals are not suffering at corner, so this isn't a big deal. Let Kirkpatrick heal up and enjoy the player he will become.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by DWright

No he didnt do alot of backpedaling, but the whole "injury" thing at the beginning of the season was so that the coaches could work on his technique.

So the alleged broken leg was all smoke and mirrors to hide the fact the Bengals drafted a 1st round CB with bad technique in need of remedial coaching?

That's quite the conspiracy theory you have there.

[Hammerstripes]

This is a lame discussion.

For starters, he was INJURED. End of story.

If he is healthy all offseason and comes into camp and still stinks in week 15 next year, then we have problems.

As far as the technique issues. If the Bengals didn't plan on having him play press coverage most of the time he is on the field, then this will be a bad pick. Why draft a corner whose strength is press coverage and then play him as a zone corner? Makes no sense. If that's the case, then yes, it's a bad pick.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Maybe not amazing, but pretty darn good.

Hall had 14pdef and 5ints in 10 starts his rookie year.
Joseph had 20pdef in 9 starts.

Maybe we've been spoiled by those two, but Kirkpatrick isn't looking too good strictly from an injury standpoint. It doesn't matter if he's the next Deion Sanders if he can't stay healthy long enough to do anything.

Exactly right. I think it'll be better to judge 'Dre when he's in his contract year, but right now he could be the best corner of all time, it wouldn't matter cause he never plays. Nobody's fault, but it's truth.

Let him play before we call it a bad pick. But yeah if he's injured the next 2 years as well, then it's not gunna turn out a great pick.