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Old 12-10-2012, 03:53 AM
bLEEdOrangeandBlack bLEEdOrangeandBlack is offline
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Default Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Before you all get butt hurt, I am just pointing out what ive noticed since Andy Dalton has been in the league. I am happy with him as our quarterback but am also objective and realistic. If you all dont have NFL rewind then youre missing out. You can really scrutinise and pinpoint weaknesses and strengths. Dalton is great with quick throws, but anytime he has to stand tall in the pocket and let the routes develop he gets happy feet and runs out if the pocket when he thinks there is pressure. But here is the kicker...THERE IS NONE!!!! And he doesnt step up in the pocket for maximum view. He throws way too much on his back foot and i cant count how many times he has missed a wide open man. If we are ever gonna be a legitimate superbowl contender he is gonna need to fix this. The loss today was definately on the receivers for dropping so many balls, especially green. Btw Hawkins is probably gonna be better than welker in the future and Geno deserves the most money of any Bengal on the roster...period
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

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Originally Posted by bLEEdOrangeandBlack View Post
Before you all get butt hurt, I am just pointing out what ive noticed since Andy Dalton has been in the league. I am happy with him as our quarterback but am also objective and realistic. If you all dont have NFL rewind then youre missing out. You can really scrutinise and pinpoint weaknesses and strengths. Dalton is great with quick throws, but anytime he has to stand tall in the pocket and let the routes develop he gets happy feet and runs out if the pocket when he thinks there is pressure. But here is the kicker...THERE IS NONE!!!! And he doesnt step up in the pocket for maximum view. He throws way too much on his back foot and i cant count how many times he has missed a wide open man. If we are ever gonna be a legitimate superbowl contender he is gonna need to fix this. The loss today was definately on the receivers for dropping so many balls, especially green. Btw Hawkins is probably gonna be better than welker in the future and Geno deserves the most money of any Bengal on the roster...period
Dead on
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

I agree with some of your comments, not so much on others. I think pocket presence deals a lot with confidence in your offensive line, as well as understanding the pressures that are coming towards you. The times when Andy was rushed, he had a legitimate reason to run the Football. Not to mention, something not accounted for here is the fact that when plays break down, even bigger plays can create. For example, the Andrew Hawkins touchdown earlier this year, happened because Dalton broke the pocket and scrambled.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

My one complaint is that when he leaves the pocket and rolls right, he very rarely makes completions. For all I know the receivers are doing a bad job of coming back, but it seems whenever he does that we are looking at a throwaway pass.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

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Originally Posted by michaelsean View Post
My one complaint is that when he leaves the pocket and rolls right, he very rarely makes completions. For all I know the receivers are doing a bad job of coming back, but it seems whenever he does that we are looking at a throwaway pass.
Yep, he has a hard time throwing on the run, particularly yesterday, and you can't take 5 sacks.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLEEdOrangeandBlack View Post
Before you all get butt hurt, I am just pointing out what ive noticed since Andy Dalton has been in the league. I am happy with him as our quarterback but am also objective and realistic. If you all dont have NFL rewind then youre missing out. You can really scrutinise and pinpoint weaknesses and strengths. Dalton is great with quick throws, but anytime he has to stand tall in the pocket and let the routes develop he gets happy feet and runs out if the pocket when he thinks there is pressure. But here is the kicker...THERE IS NONE!!!! And he doesnt step up in the pocket for maximum view. He throws way too much on his back foot and i cant count how many times he has missed a wide open The loss today was definately on the receivers for dropping so many balls, especially green. Btw Hawkins is probably gonna be better than welker in the roster...period
I have NFL rewind and it's worth every penny. You're 100% correct! However you broke the Board Gods rule #1. Never say anything negative about Andy.
Their reasoning is this: In 3 years a light will come on inside Andy's head and "PRESTO, we'll win a SB." Here's their proof: T. Brady, A. Rogers, Payton and Eli Manning and a few others won SB's when the lights in their heads came on. See?
Dan Marino simply had a bad light bulb.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:27 AM
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bengals Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

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Originally Posted by Hammerthis View Post
I have NFL rewind and it's worth every penny. You're 100% correct! However you broke the Board Gods rule #1. Never say anything negative about Andy.
Their reasoning is this: In 3 years a light will come on inside Andy's head and "PRESTO, we'll win a SB." Here's their proof: T. Brady, A. Rogers, Payton and Eli Manning and a few others won SB's when the lights in their heads came on. See?
Dan Marino simply had a bad light bulb.
Some are just intelligent to understand that he is a second year player and some parts of his game are not going to be that of an 8 year veteran.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

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Some are just intelligent to understand that he is a second year player and some parts of his game are not going to be that of an 8 year veteran.
This makes too much sense.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

It seems to me that Dalton does not know what to do when given good protection. He throws the ball flat footed and they are always behind the reciever, or just to low to the ground. I like Dalton the most when he is under pressure. this kid is still young. His greatest strenght his his decision making. I feel comfoetable with Dalton.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Some of those plays were designed roll outs like the interception its called a bootleg. Now they shouldnt be running the bootleg unless the Offensive Line is getting crushed with pass rush or if they were running the ball well (then you only run the bootleg out of the exact same formation you were running the ball and then its usually a fast drop off to the TE or running back).
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

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Some are just intelligent to understand that he is a second year player and some parts of his game are not going to be that of an 8 year veteran.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

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Originally Posted by michaelsean View Post
My one complaint is that when he leaves the pocket and rolls right, he very rarely makes completions. For all I know the receivers are doing a bad job of coming back, but it seems whenever he does that we are looking at a throwaway pass.
You are correct. Always a throwaway pass. You can count on it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Dalton is an above average NFL QB. He needs good pass blocking and good WR play to excel.

The loss of Sanu really hurts in the Red Zone. Sanu's big strength was his hands...he seldom dropped a pass or tipped it for an interception.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

This gets silly.

I don't think I have ever seen a QB in the NFL given less chance to succeed by the "fanbase" than Andy Dalton. All he has done is come in to a train wreck and actually post an above 500 record. He is also posting very good QB stats with spotty blocking, spotty running before the last couple of games and for most of the season only one reliable target to throw to. He played pretty well yesterday (even if the pick every game grates on me) and was totally betrayed by the receivers having butterfingers all day. They dropped 2 TDs at least and something like 7 passes on the day.

I can see where this "fan" attitude will lead to, It will lead to Andy getting run out of town, signing on with a REAL franchise and becoming a perennial Pro Bowler with Super Bowl rings. Meanwhile our so-called fans will be busy running the next QB out of town.

Or we can go down a road less traveled (for the Bengals) and develop Dalton and get him the proper tools he needs - like a big "hands" receiver to go with AJ. And the fans can be supportive of him in this process. Drew Brees didn't develop instantly and so far the college scouting comparing Dalton to Brees looks right on the money. So relax.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerthis View Post
I have NFL rewind and it's worth every penny. You're 100% correct! However you broke the Board Gods rule #1. Never say anything negative about Andy.
Their reasoning is this: In 3 years a light will come on inside Andy's head and "PRESTO, we'll win a SB." Here's their proof: T. Brady, A. Rogers, Payton and Eli Manning and a few others won SB's when the lights in their heads came on. See?
Dan Marino simply had a bad light bulb.
lol hope yr right
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLEEdOrangeandBlack View Post
Before you all get butt hurt, I am just pointing out what ive noticed since Andy Dalton has been in the league. I am happy with him as our quarterback but am also objective and realistic. If you all dont have NFL rewind then youre missing out. You can really scrutinise and pinpoint weaknesses and strengths. Dalton is great with quick throws, but anytime he has to stand tall in the pocket and let the routes develop he gets happy feet and runs out if the pocket when he thinks there is pressure. But here is the kicker...THERE IS NONE!!!! And he doesnt step up in the pocket for maximum view. He throws way too much on his back foot and i cant count how many times he has missed a wide open man. If we are ever gonna be a legitimate superbowl contender he is gonna need to fix this. The loss today was definately on the receivers for dropping so many balls, especially green. Btw Hawkins is probably gonna be better than welker in the future and Geno deserves the most money of any Bengal on the roster...period
All it would take is for Dalton to take one step up in the pocket to give him a few more seconds, but he usually heads outside of the pocket getting himself in trouble.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:48 PM
bLEEdOrangeandBlack bLEEdOrangeandBlack is offline
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

All im saying is andy dalton needs to fix his pocket presence and stand tall in the pocket so the recievers can get open. He is awesome with quick throws and 3 step drops but when he has to go 5 step or 7 step he looks timid and unsure of himself..other than that i believe he has the arm strength and decision making to be great
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

The only complaint I have with him is the interceptions. Not all of them are on him, but I feel like the one yesterday was a bad throw. I feel like he will correct some of the decision making with time. As far as I am concerned, he is a good second year qb with the potential to be great. Very happy with him leading the Bengals.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLEEdOrangeandBlack View Post
Before you all get butt hurt, I am just pointing out what ive noticed since Andy Dalton has been in the league. I am happy with him as our quarterback but am also objective and realistic. If you all dont have NFL rewind then youre missing out. You can really scrutinise and pinpoint weaknesses and strengths. Dalton is great with quick throws, but anytime he has to stand tall in the pocket and let the routes develop he gets happy feet and runs out if the pocket when he thinks there is pressure. But here is the kicker...THERE IS NONE!!!! And he doesnt step up in the pocket for maximum view. He throws way too much on his back foot and i cant count how many times he has missed a wide open man. If we are ever gonna be a legitimate superbowl contender he is gonna need to fix this. The loss today was definately on the receivers for dropping so many balls, especially green. Btw Hawkins is probably gonna be better than welker in the future and Geno deserves the most money of any Bengal on the roster...period
Don't the Bengals pay for a QB coach to improve Dalton. Is he on vacation?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Andy does struggle at times and he is developing. He has room for a lot of improvement. Having said that his passes (sans int) yesterday were on point in some tight situations. Remove the drops and what is his actual statline?

Remove the drops, is it a victory, I think it is
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Dalton is still on pace to throw for almost 4000 yards and 30 tds. That would be the 2nd most productive season by a Bengals QB in team history. In his 2nd season! Sure, he has some things he needs to work on, but IMO, that makes him even more promising. He's playing extremely well and we have yet to see the best of him.

He is on pace for 17 picks for the season. That's not good, but it's not NEARLY the problem people make it out to be. Drew Brees is on pace for 22 picks (again), and Eli Manning had 25 a couple years ago. Palmer had 20 here. Twice. Just get him a good #2 in the offseason, and lets go from there.

Btw, Lap was just on NFL network and said that our receivers had 8 drops yesterday. Give Andy half of those, and he went 24 of 33 with 2 tds in a win. Would we even be discussing Andy if that had happened?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Here's the thing.

Dalton is only in his second year. Now I know he's thrown over 40 TDs in those two years and has his team in playoff contention for he second year in a row and it makes him seem like he's been doing this forever, but he hasn't been. Quarterback transition from college to the NFL is the biggest learning curve in the game, and Dalton has done an absolutely wonderful job, but he is still learning. The guy came from TCU, and he is still seeing and experiencing things that he has never had to experience before. As time goes by, the interceptions will slow down, and you'll begin to see him stepping up and throwing darts down the field instead of running out. He's going to learn, and the Bengals have their franchise QB.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

I an stoked Andy Dalton is our QB but I can still agree with some of this. In college he was a quick throw QB so he is just going to do better in that situation as it comes more natural. I can see him still developing skills that allow him to be in the pocket longer. Progressions were an issue earlier this year (and still are at times) as well as pocket presence but I wonder how much that has to do with overcompensating for a lot of batted balls. Some of the plays were obvious bootlegs. He is still developing though and for a second year player he is pretty remarkable!
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
Dalton is still on pace to throw for almost 4000 yards and 30 tds. That would be the 2nd most productive season by a Bengals QB in team history. In his 2nd season! Sure, he has some things he needs to work on, but IMO, that makes him even more promising. He's playing extremely well and we have yet to see the best of him.

He is on pace for 17 picks for the season. That's not good, but it's not NEARLY the problem people make it out to be. Drew Brees is on pace for 22 picks (again), and Eli Manning had 25 a couple years ago. Palmer had 20 here. Twice. Just get him a good #2 in the offseason, and lets go from there.

Btw, Lap was just on NFL network and said that our receivers had 8 drops yesterday. Give Andy half of those, and he went 24 of 33 with 2 tds in a win. Would we even be discussing Andy if that had happened?
Yep, that's really good Shake n Blake. With this teams current players, just think of what our QB numbers would be if we had a better QB than Dalton. I mean, even you realize a QB's numbers are made in conjunction with his WR's right? At least that's what P. Manning said.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton lacks pocket presence

Dalton is a solid, but not great QB. Looks like what a lot of us expected when we drafted him. Someone who won't lose you games, but who you don't want to have to rely on him to win them either.

There's nothing wrong with leaving the pocket, the problem is he doesn't seem to be able to keep his eyes downfield. If he feels any sort of pressure he loses focus downfield and by doing so he pretty much eliminated his options. If he does throw the ball at the point it is a high/jump ball to a player on the sideline. While in a way this is smart (minimizes chances of an interception) I noticed a least a couple of plays yesterday where he missed a wide open player over the middle and instead threw to a covered player on the sideline - simply because when he starts moving he stops looking anywhere but the sideline.
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