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  #1  
Old 12-10-2012, 10:46 AM
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Default LB performance

After watching that debacle of a game Sunday and seeing that we were essentially playing with 2 LB the whole game, not because we were in a Nickel package so often but rather because Manny Lawson is the invisible LB, I wanted to compile some stats on our LB.

Manny Lawson: 33 total tackles, 24 solo, 9 assist, 1 PDEF
Rankings:
295th in total tackles.. for a starting OLB.. this is insane.
54TH of all OLB for total tackles

This is just shameful. Lawson was not great last year, but this performance is staggeringly terrible. 295th in the league in tackles. I thought perhaps he was in coverage so much that this affected him and that his pass defenses would be very high. He has 1; 1 pass defended. Lance Briggs and Bryan Scott lead the league in OLB pass defenses at 10. The only conclusion I can draw is that Lawson either no longer cares or has declined to the point that he is no longer a viable option, even as a back up.

Rey Maualuga: 105 total tackles, 53 solo, 52 assists
Rankings:
16th in league in total tackles
12th among all ILB in total tackles

Wait.. this is looking good for Rey, can the eyeball test be wrong? Have we all been misjudging Rey this season?

24th among all ILB in solo tackles with 53
#1 in assists among all ILB

And there is it. Rey in a nutshell. Slow to diagnose, rarely the first in the hole, and too frequently he is helping someone who got there before him.

Vontaze Burfict: 95 total tackles, 53 solo, 42 assists, 2 PDEF
Rankings:
28th in the league in total tackles
7th among all OLB in total tackles
16th among all OLB in total tackles
#3 in assists among all OLB

So our undrafted free agent rookie Will backer is 28th in the league in total tackles. As Borat would say “Great success!!”. The rest of the stats speak for themselves. 7th most tackles among all OLB and this coming from a Will position is very impressive. I know Truck says that PFF shows him as slightly below average, but considering he is a rookie, and playing Will, I consider this successful beyond my wildest dreams for a maligned UDFA. Now one thing that does stand out is what I am calling the Maualuga affect. Vontaze is 3rd in the league among all OLB in assists, you have to wonder how many of those were plays where he diagnosed and reacted prior to Rey, covered a larger amount of ground than Rey, but had to share credit for his tackle with a late arriving MLB.

After reviewing these stats and the performance of the players involved I am more confident than before that we, in fact, need 2 LB from this upcoming draft. The free agent market is for LB this coming year is terrible, so the answer will not be found there. I don’t know if Burfict is the answer at MLB or SAM, but this kid has shown great promise and has a spot on the team. Howard, Lawson, and Rey… not so much.

Source for stats
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/p...r?&_3:col_1=12
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...


Last edited by Burma; 12-10-2012 at 12:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2012, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burma View Post
After watching that debacle of a game Sunday and seeing that we were essentially playing with 2 LB the whole game, not because we were in a Nickel package so often but rather because Manny Lawson is the invisible LB, I wanted to compile some stats on our LB.

Manny Lawson: 33 total tackles, 24 solo, 9 assist, 1 PDEF
Rankings:
295th in total tackles.. for a starting OLB.. this is insane.
54TH of all OLB for total tackles

This just shameful. Lawson was not great last year, but this performance is staggeringly terrible. 295th in the league in tackles. I thought perhaps he was in coverage so much that this affected him and that his pass defenses would be very high. He has 1; 1 pass defended. Lance Briggs and Bryan Scott lead the league in OLB pass defenses at 10. The only conclusion I can draw is that Lawson either no longer cares or has declined to the point that he is no longer a viable option, even as a back up.

Rey Maualuga: 105 total tackles, 53 solo, 52 assists
Rankings:
16th in league in total tackles
12th among all ILB in total tackles

Wait.. this is looking good for Rey, can the eyeball test be wrong? Have we all been misjudging Rey this season?

24th among all ILB in solo tackles with 53
#1 in assists among all ILB

And there is it. Rey in a nutshell. Slow to diagnose, rarely the first in the hole, and too frequently he is helping someone who got there before him.

Vontaze Burfict: 95 total tackles, 53 solo, 42 assists, 2 PDEF
Rankings:
28th in the league in total tackles
7th among all OLB in total tackles
16th among all OLB in total tackles
#3 in assists among all OLB

So our undrafted free agent rookie Will backer is 28th in the league in total tackles. As Borat would say “Great success!!”. The rest of the stats speak for themselves. 7th most tackles among all OLB and this coming from a Will position is very impressive. I know Truck says that PFF shows him as slightly below average, but considering he is a rookie, and playing Will, I consider this successful beyond my wildest dreams for a maligned UDFA. Now one thing that does stand out is what I am calling the Maualuga affect. Vontaze is 3rd in the league among all OLB in assists, you have to wonder how many of those were plays where he diagnosed and reacted prior to Rey, covered a larger amount of ground than Rey, but had to share credit for his tackle with a late arriving MLB.

After reviewing these stats and the performance of the players involved I am more confident than before that we in fact need 2 LB from this upcoming draft. The free agent market is for LB this coming year is terrible, so the answer will not be found there. I don’t know if Burfict is the answer at MLB or SAM, but this kid has shown great promise and has a spot on the team. Howard, Lawson, and Rey… not so much.

Source for stats
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/p...r?&_3:col_1=12
I too have noticed Lawson's terrible play. This is why we need a true SAM. I personally would like to draft one, but moving Burfict to SAM is another option. If Maualuga moves on, I would like Burfict in the middle, draft a SAM, and either Howard (if we re-sign) or Lamur as our WILL.

If we re-sign Maualuga, then draft a OLB (either side). Rey is now up to 265 lbs (saw it listed during the game yesterday), which is rather large for a MLB. No wonder he is so slow now. He has shown improvement recently, and Burfict has continually shown improvement at WILL (although not in the pass game as much). Maualuga at either MIKE or SAM, Burfict at either WILL or MIKE, then a drafted OLB. Even if we were to re-sign Howard, a LB should be drafted.

As long as a LB is drafted within the first three rounds, I'll be happy. Lawson needs to be gone. I'd be fine not playing him the rest of the year as a starter.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

I'm very happy with Burfict this year and I feel he could be a superstar in the middle. You can't ask alot more from an UDFA that gives you 100+ tackles and good solid play. Like the other poster stated the only liability I see in his game is in coverage but hes always around the ball. A second year in the system is going to really put him over the top.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

I never liked Lawson. We saw his ceiling last year, that's why I was pretty happy with Moch getting some snaps. Lawson is done. And also, I worry about Howard. Did we see his ceiling in 2011? And also, how is he gonna look after his injury?

This is why I definitely want the Bengals to draft C.J. Mosley. Great in coverage, would be a solid pick. Fits a need. Also could be BPA
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBlesmiley View Post
I'm very happy with Burfict this year and I feel he could be a superstar in the middle. You can't ask alot more from an UDFA that gives you 100+ tackles and good solid play. Like the other poster stated the only liability I see in his game is in coverage but hes always around the ball. A second year in the system is going to really put him over the top.
I agree with this. Burfict has exceeded all my expectations for him. His coverage is really the only area of concern. 2 passes defended ranks him relatively low in regards to other OLB.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

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Originally Posted by Burma View Post
I agree with this. Burfict has exceeded all my expectations for him. His coverage is really the only area of concern. 2 passes defended ranks him relatively low in regards to other OLB.
The other LB we have had like 2 yesterday
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
The other LB we have had like 2 yesterday
I know. That brought Rey's season total to 3 passes defeneded. He went from a tie for 47th among inside backers to tied for 25th just from this game.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...


Last edited by Burma; 12-10-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

I learned early on that Lawson just doesn't show up on the stat sheet. And you have to force yourself to watch him, otherwise you'll miss him on the field. He's just a ghost of a SLB
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

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Originally Posted by OchoCincos View Post
I too have noticed Lawson's terrible play. This is why we need a true SAM. I personally would like to draft one, but moving Burfict to SAM is another option. If Maualuga moves on, I would like Burfict in the middle, draft a SAM, and either Howard (if we re-sign) or Lamur as our WILL.

If we re-sign Maualuga, then draft a OLB (either side). Rey is now up to 265 lbs (saw it listed during the game yesterday), which is rather large for a MLB. No wonder he is so slow now. He has shown improvement recently, and Burfict has continually shown improvement at WILL (although not in the pass game as much). Maualuga at either MIKE or SAM, Burfict at either WILL or MIKE, then a drafted OLB. Even if we were to re-sign Howard, a LB should be drafted.

As long as a LB is drafted within the first three rounds, I'll be happy. Lawson needs to be gone. I'd be fine not playing him the rest of the year as a starter.
Rey does not weigh 265. He's actually down to 245. They made a big deal about him losing the 20 pounds since the season began on the homepage a couple of weeks ago.

And I've said it once and I'll say it again, it doesn't matter who we put at SAM because unless they are exceptional at rushing the passer they won't play that much anyway. We play nickel the majority of the time and the SAM comes off the field when we go to that alignment.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

Thus being why we should draft a OLB in the first instead of going after a MLB.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

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Originally Posted by yellowxdiscipline View Post
Thus being why we should draft a OLB in the first instead of going after a MLB.
I think there are good MLB candidates in the first, maybe better than Vontaze. Also, Vontaze is a good SAM candidate. And I like him, a lot.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by kacymcbryant18 View Post
Rey does not weigh 265. He's actually down to 245. They made a big deal about him losing the 20 pounds since the season began on the homepage a couple of weeks ago.

And I've said it once and I'll say it again, it doesn't matter who we put at SAM because unless they are exceptional at rushing the passer they won't play that much anyway. We play nickel the majority of the time and the SAM comes off the field when we go to that alignment.
Agreed about the SAM point.

As for Rey, I also had thought he was down, but then I saw that the weight listed for him on Sunday's game was at 265. They must not have updated it since the start of the season. But the point of 265 being way too big for a MLB still stands.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

Who is the best Pass Rushing LB in the draft this year?

Hodges from Penn State / LB University?
Porter from Texas A&M?
Barr from UCLA?
Thomas from Stanford?

Id really love to see CJ Mosley in the first. But Id really like to get a true pass rushing LB later if possible.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burma View Post
After watching that debacle of a game Sunday and seeing that we were essentially playing with 2 LB the whole game, not because we were in a Nickel package so often but rather because Manny Lawson is the invisible LB, I wanted to compile some stats on our LB.

Manny Lawson: 33 total tackles, 24 solo, 9 assist, 1 PDEF
Rankings:
295th in total tackles.. for a starting OLB.. this is insane.
54TH of all OLB for total tackles

This is just shameful. Lawson was not great last year, but this performance is staggeringly terrible. 295th in the league in tackles. I thought perhaps he was in coverage so much that this affected him and that his pass defenses would be very high. He has 1; 1 pass defended. Lance Briggs and Bryan Scott lead the league in OLB pass defenses at 10. The only conclusion I can draw is that Lawson either no longer cares or has declined to the point that he is no longer a viable option, even as a back up.

Rey Maualuga: 105 total tackles, 53 solo, 52 assists
Rankings:
16th in league in total tackles
12th among all ILB in total tackles

Wait.. this is looking good for Rey, can the eyeball test be wrong? Have we all been misjudging Rey this season?

24th among all ILB in solo tackles with 53
#1 in assists among all ILB

And there is it. Rey in a nutshell. Slow to diagnose, rarely the first in the hole, and too frequently he is helping someone who got there before him.

Vontaze Burfict: 95 total tackles, 53 solo, 42 assists, 2 PDEF
Rankings:
28th in the league in total tackles
7th among all OLB in total tackles
16th among all OLB in total tackles
#3 in assists among all OLB

So our undrafted free agent rookie Will backer is 28th in the league in total tackles. As Borat would say “Great success!!”. The rest of the stats speak for themselves. 7th most tackles among all OLB and this coming from a Will position is very impressive. I know Truck says that PFF shows him as slightly below average, but considering he is a rookie, and playing Will, I consider this successful beyond my wildest dreams for a maligned UDFA. Now one thing that does stand out is what I am calling the Maualuga affect. Vontaze is 3rd in the league among all OLB in assists, you have to wonder how many of those were plays where he diagnosed and reacted prior to Rey, covered a larger amount of ground than Rey, but had to share credit for his tackle with a late arriving MLB.

After reviewing these stats and the performance of the players involved I am more confident than before that we, in fact, need 2 LB from this upcoming draft. The free agent market is for LB this coming year is terrible, so the answer will not be found there. I don’t know if Burfict is the answer at MLB or SAM, but this kid has shown great promise and has a spot on the team. Howard, Lawson, and Rey… not so much.

Source for stats
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/p...r?&_3:col_1=12
Hard to post high numbers when you see 20 snaps a game, while the other guys see 70 snaps a game.

Not defending Lawson btw, as this year he has been bad, but the counting stats are like that because of the snap count.

As well, he was our best lineback last year; best on the run, did well the few times he pass rushed, and he wasn;t in coverage too often.

This year, they're keeping him in on coverage which is hurting us and him.

As well, while Burfict can be commended for the job he's done under the circumstances, the PFF grade shows that he's still a poor player, performance-wise.

Also, I believe Rey has 3/4 PDs, you put down that he has none lol
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_ View Post
Hard to post high numbers when you see 20 snaps a game, while the other guys see 70 snaps a game.

Not defending Lawson btw, as this year he has been bad, but the counting stats are like that because of the snap count.

As well, he was our best lineback last year; best on the run, did well the few times he pass rushed, and he wasn;t in coverage too often.

This year, they're keeping him in on coverage which is hurting us and him.

As well, while Burfict can be commended for the job he's done under the circumstances, the PFF grade shows that he's still a poor player, performance-wise.

Also, I believe Rey has 3/4 PDs, you put down that he has none lol
I figured Lawson was seeing mostly coverage roles and thats why I looked at his pass defended. I couldn't find his snap counts unfortunately. Is it really in the 20s?

As to Rey, he had 1 pass defended prior to Sunday, he now has 3.
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 12-11-2012, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burma View Post
I figured Lawson was seeing mostly coverage roles and thats why I looked at his pass defended. I couldn't find his snap counts unfortunately. Is it really in the 20s?

As to Rey, he had 1 pass defended prior to Sunday, he now has 3.
294/13= 22.6 snaps a game. Last year he saw slightly more, and less in coverage; 113 this year, 154 last year.

In terms of pure snaps, it will be less, but in terms of percentage of snaps, he's been in coverage more this year than last year.

Which is stupid
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewee28 View Post
Who is the best Pass Rushing LB in the draft this year?

Hodges from Penn State / LB University?
Porter from Texas A&M?
Barr from UCLA?
Thomas from Stanford?

Id really love to see CJ Mosley in the first. But Id really like to get a true pass rushing LB later if possible.
Just from stats it's Barr hands down. He also has only played LB for 1 year, so he is also the most raw out of any of these guys. Thomas has been the most consistent, but is also probably the most athletically limited. Porter played opposite Von Miller in 2011 and moved to a more coverage role in 2012 so he is hard to peg. Gerald Hodges just seems to be the plugger of the group.

Gerald Hodges:
2012: 1 sack
2011: 4.5 sacks

Sean Porter:
2012: 2.5 sacks (moved to SAM from 3-4 rush olb. mostly in coverage)
2011: 9.5 sacks

Anthony Barr:
2012: 13.5 sacks
2011: was a running back

Chase Thomas:
2012: 7.5 sacks
2011: 8.5 sacks
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 12-11-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_ View Post
294/13= 22.6 snaps a game. Last year he saw slightly more, and less in coverage; 113 this year, 154 last year.

In terms of pure snaps, it will be less, but in terms of percentage of snaps, he's been in coverage more this year than last year.

Which is stupid
Out of curiosity, how many snaps is our nickle DB getting per game this year?
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We asked him about the time he fumbled without being hit and the time he threw an interception without being pressured and the other pick he threw -- under pressure but stupidly off his back foot toward double coverage. All of that happened on three consecutive possession, a 10-minute fusillade of fail that turned a one-possession game into a blowout loss...

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Old 12-11-2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OchoCincos View Post
Agreed about the SAM point.

As for Rey, I also had thought he was down, but then I saw that the weight listed for him on Sunday's game was at 265. They must not have updated it since the start of the season. But the point of 265 being way too big for a MLB still stands.
Agreed
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:39 PM
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Lawson is flatout terrible. They should have released him and signed Brian Johnson as their OLB. Sometimes I wonder about our ability to look at talent/
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:33 PM
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Author Brown from KSU for 2nd round OLB pick.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:28 AM
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Couldn't we feasibly get Mosely (Rd 1) to play WILL, Khaseem Greene (Round 2A) to Play SAM, and move Burfict to the middle? Then take Tony Jefferson or some other stud safety at 2B?
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:34 AM
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Couldn't we feasibly get Mosely (Rd 1) to play WILL, Khaseem Greene (Round 2A) to Play SAM, and move Burfict to the middle? Then take Tony Jefferson or some other stud safety at 2B?
greene would be WLB
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady View Post
Couldn't we feasibly get Mosely (Rd 1) to play WILL, Khaseem Greene (Round 2A) to Play SAM, and move Burfict to the middle? Then take Tony Jefferson or some other stud safety at 2B?
Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
greene would be WLB
Who knows? Greene has definately shown to ability to get after the QB.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: LB performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady View Post
Couldn't we feasibly get Mosely (Rd 1) to play WILL, Khaseem Greene (Round 2A) to Play SAM, and move Burfict to the middle? Then take Tony Jefferson or some other stud safety at 2B?
What about Barr instead of Greene? Little bit bigger (6-4, 235) compared to Greene (6-1, 230). And he had a little more production getting to the QB. Plus we could probably get Barr in the 3rd or 4th. The only issue with Barr is he has only played LB for one year. Honestly I would be ok with either Greene or Barr

1- Mosely
2A - Zeek Ansah
2B - Bernard
3 - Rambo
4 - Barr

or

1- Mosely
2A - Ansah
2B - Greene
3 - Rambo
4 - Barner
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