Why am I still mad about the loss?

[Utts]

The Patriots cheat. It's just that simple. Cheaters!

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

2008: 11-5, division title, missed playoffs

Not to get away from the point, but the Dolphins won the division that year. You can't win your division and miss the playoffs.

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by whodey21

This has little to do with your last post, which was more along the lines of "the Cincinnati Bengals, love them or leave them". However I will address your new topic, as well.

Do you realize that our latest Super Bowl appearance (which we still lost) is closer to the date of the moon landing than to the present day?

The issue is the management of the team for the past ten years has been subpar. If you "open your eyes for 5 minutes", you might notice that we still haven't won a playoff game under Mike Brown. Things have been different, and appear to be moving slowly in the right direction, but there's a long way to go.

However, when you bring up the teams that "haven't even been to a Super Bowl" you tell us you are less concerned with being the best, and more concerned with just not being the worst.

Mike Brown is never leaving, but you could and based on your negativity should. Don't let the door hit in you on the way out.

Best of luck trolling with your new team.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by whodey21

Not to get away from the point, but the Dolphins won the division that year. You can't win your division and miss the playoffs.

Sorry about that. Was using pro-football reference to look things up. Still though, my point is still more than valid

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by Luvnit2

Mike Brown is never leaving, but you could and based on your negativity should. Don't let the door hit in you on the way out.

Best of luck trolling with your new team.

If we're handing out deep psychological analysis, maybe it's posts like these that cause you to have twice as many posts as rep. Maybe it's you who should leave.

...Or we could have a civil discussion and counter with valid points.. Your choice.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Sorry about that. Was using pro-football reference to look things up. Still though, my point is still more than valid

No problem

I agree it has no influence on your point. I was just momentarily confused, haha.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by whodey21

No problem

I agree it has no influence on your point. I was just momentarily confused, haha.

Yeah, they have the Pats and the Dolphins both winning the division that year lol. I guess even on reputable stat sites it's a good idea to double check things.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Let's just look at his record AFTER he was busted then, shall we?
2007: 16-0, division title, AFC Champions
2008: 11-5, division title, missed playoffs
2009: 10-6, division title, playoff appearance
2010: 14-2, division title, playoff appearance
2011: 13-3, division title, AFC Champions
2012: 10-3, looks like another division title and playoff berth

So what's that? 74-19, 6 straight division titles, 5 playoff berths, and 2 AFC Championships. He lost Brady for the entire 08 season and still posted a regular season as good as Marvin's best. Maybe he hasn't won a SB since spygate, but he's still a great HC/GM/OC.



Exactly. Marvin continues to get extensions with a losing record. Bratkowski was kept around WAY too long. Maualuga hasn't been benched for his horrible play(was actually given the captain's C). Nobody checked Ocho's behavior when he was here. As long as you aren't horrible, apparently you have a job with the Cincinnati Bengals.



In 2008 the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassel at the helm. I'd say that means Belichick is a great coach. In the same season, Marvin went 4-11-1 when Palmer was out for 12 games.

Also, coaches like Belichick wouldn't have stopped running the ball in the 4th quarter up by 2 scores when the RB was averaging almost 7ypc. He also would have had a couple time-outs left in the final minutes as well.

I could give 2 sh1ts less what his record was after the incident. I have zero respect for a cheater. Not too mention his completely unprofessional attire. He dresses like a homeless whino and it is a poor representation of his employer.

Kraft sold out to his winning record. You speak of accountability but the Patriots sold that out time wins. It was alright that he was caught cheating because they had wins. Sorry I will take morals over cheating.

You have zero idea what any teams record would be by changing QBs but nice try.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by whodey21

If we're handing out deep psychological analysis, maybe it's posts like these that cause you to have twice as many posts as rep. Maybe it's you who should leave.

...Or we could have a civil discussion and counter with valid points.. Your choice.

Thinking that post count and rep means anything is something else that speaks volumes.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by ishouldbegm

okay how about a tom coughlin team then?

You mean the one we treated like red headed stepchildren?

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Thinking that post count and rep means anything is something else that speaks volumes.

So what does matter? Calling out people who disagree with you and saying they aren't real fans? Being condescending to anyone with a different opinion than you and saying they should shut up or GTFO? Is that what matters? If it is, then you are the most important person on this board tonight. Otherwise, you're a troll.

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You mean the one we treated like red headed stepchildren?

One win over one good team does not undo a streak of ineptitude reaching back to the presidency of George H. W. Bush. Again, it's a nice departure from the norm, but there's a lot more to be done. That win is countered by losses to the Browns, Dolphins, and Cowboys.

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by whodey21

If we're handing out deep psychological analysis, maybe it's posts like these that cause you to have twice as many posts as rep. Maybe it's you who should leave.

...Or we could have a civil discussion and counter with valid points.. Your choice.

LOL.............rep points seriously Now you have proven my point.

Stay or go could care less. Just keep on hating and keep those eyes closed. See where it gets you in the end.

[Captain Happy Pants]

Originally Posted by whodey21

This is exactly the problem. From the ownership to the fanbase, we find the thought of consistent success and high level performance to be inconceivable. Why would anyone put money or work into anything when folks will wet their pants with excitement over a 9-win season? Winning should be the expectation. If we don't win a playoff game, we need some high-profile firings. If we have a losing season, we start from scratch. There is no such thing as a "hot seat" in Cincinnati, Mike proved that after extending Marvin after a 4-12 season. The message he sent was "4-12 is acceptable here, good job".

"From the ownership to the fanbase"

Don't pretend like fans are part of the problem

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by Luvnit2

LOL.............rep points seriously Now you have proven my point.

Stay or go could care less. Just keep on hating and keep those eyes closed. See where it gets you in the end.

"Couldn't care less". The phrase is "couldn't care less". Think about what words mean before you type.

More to the point, they may not mean anything, but the ratios are pretty good for identifying actual trolls, as you yourself have proven for me. Look at 74, Shake, Sunset, and then yourself.

By the way, if it doesn't matter why did you bother giving it? Check. Mate.

Originally Posted by Captain Happy Pants

"From the ownership to the fanbase"

Don't pretend like fans are part of the problem

All fans aren't. Most fans, in fact, are not part of the problem. The mentality of Mike Brown, and the fans that defend (see above) and continually invest in him are. As I said before, until winning is the expectation (and not just some pipe dream), we will continue to lose.

[Ben zoo 2]

Originally Posted by ishouldbegm

okay how about a tom coughlin team then?

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

The Pats have had 12 consecutive winning seasons with 5 superbowls and 3 rings. It would be silly to expect THAT level of success, but I kinda get what you're saying.

What separates us from Patriots, Steelers, Packers and Giants of the world is that those teams have a clear identity, and plan, and they draft players that fit that identity and retain their good players.

The Bengals have been on the cusp several times under Marvin, but we've changed our identity several times. In ten years, we went from a passing team, to a running team and now back to a passing team. We've had 3 different defensive coordinators with 3 different philosophies.

Right now, I think everything is in place, but we need to fill a few holes with players during the offseason. Namely, speed RB, veteran wr (for depth and in case the young guys don't work out), SS and LB.

And don't forget the one or more successful businesses they own outside of football. When this is the only source of income you can bet the bottom line will always be the main focus.

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by whodey21

"Couldn't care less". The phrase is "couldn't care less". Think about what words mean before you type.

More to the point, they may not mean anything, but the ratios are pretty good for identifying actual trolls, as you yourself have proven for me.

By the way, if it doesn't matter why did you bother giving it? Check. Mate.



All fans aren't. Most fans, in fact, are not part of the problem. The mentality of Mike Brown, and the fans that defend (see above) and continually invest in him are. As I said before, until winning is the expectation (and not just some pipe dream), we will continue to lose.

Like I said, fans who live in the past will never enjoy the future. Any fan who says MB has done a poor job the past 3 to 5 years is an idiot.

My guess you would fall into this category. So congrats for being good at something.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by Luvnit2

Like I said, fans who live in the past will never enjoy the future. Any fan who says MB has done a poor job the past 3 to 5 years is an idiot.

My guess you would fall into this category. So congrats for being good at something.

Like I always say, those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

I also always say that people who resort to name-calling are out of valid points to make.

My point all along has been that this franchise needs to change. The fact that you hand-picked the small part of the Mike Brown era where change (and a lot of luck) occurred and we have been marginally more successful also proves my point. Even so, I pose this question to you: How many winning seasons did we have in those 5 years? How many losing seasons? How many playoff wins? We are on the right track, but not going fast enough. I felt good the direction of things in 2005, too.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by Ben zoo 2

And don't forget the one or more successful businesses they own outside of football. When this is the only source of income you can bet the bottom line will always be the main focus.

Exactly. JJ stated this year that the Texans treat their players better with all the little things because they're not worried about $. They were billionaires before they even bought the Texans. Thus, they don't worry about how expensive their medical staff is, how big their scouting department is, how much gatorade and deodorant their players take or renting tv's at training camp. Or firing coaches that are still under contract for that matter.

The Bengals are a business first for Mike Brown. He doesn't run the Bengals as if they are part of the community and he couldn't care less about pleasing fans. I'll never forget a quote I heard from an NBA owner a few years ago. He said something along the lines of "running a sports team is a community service". He stated that he felt a sense of responsibility to the fans. With Mike Brown, it's pretty much the opposite. He feels like we're privileged to have the Bengals in Cincinnati.

[tlotharw]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You mean the one we treated like red headed stepchildren?

Do you know the Giants are the current Superbowl champions, which gives them two NFL championships under Coughlin in the last five years?

To try to discredit Coughlin to praise Marvin is a poor argument and only serves to bury the Marvinator even more.

[WhoDey8509]

Pretty easy actually they differ by scoring about 25 points less per game!!

[Sideline Tweeting 101]

Originally Posted by grnvllbuck

Still ****** over the Cowboys game...the old...Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" thing.

A failure in coaching, playcalling, and execution.

This team has talent! They have drafted well the past few years.

This team lacks focus. They do not demand excellence.

On a Bill Belichek team, that crap we saw on the field last Sunday would be unacceptable.

Somebody on the coaching staff needs to find out what they are doing in New England...and copy THAT!

When you watch a Patriots game, do you see the same mental gaffes that we see on this team?

NO!

Is it reps? Is it in the film room? What are they doing differently in NE than what we are doing here?

Yeah, they have Tom Brady....but he doesn't win those games all by himself. His supporting cast, year after year, consistently play intelligently.

If we play well, and just get beat, that is acceptable.

Giving a game away because you are not focused or prepared? Unacceptable at this level.

If I didn't care, I wouldn't be ******.

Who or what can bring this team and organization to the level they have in NE?

The difference is that teams like NE, Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Packers and all of the other successful teams have cohesion. These teams have had the same core players and coaches for quite a while so everyone is comfortable with what the other is capable of doing. The Bengals are getting there, if they can maintain their core players these conversations about why the Bengals do not stack up will go away. It takes a few seasons for your staff, system, and players to gel (unless of course you are Peyton Manning). They are better this year than they were last year, and will be better next year than this year. Nothing happens overnight.

[Captain Happy Pants]

Clearly we need to start taping our opponents

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

I could give 2 sh1ts less what his record was after the incident. I have zero respect for a cheater. Not too mention his completely unprofessional attire. He dresses like a homeless whino and it is a poor representation of his employer.

Kraft sold out to his winning record. You speak of accountability but the Patriots sold that out time wins. It was alright that he was caught cheating because they had wins. Sorry I will take morals over cheating.

You have zero idea what any teams record would be by changing QBs but nice try.

-Nobody with any pull in the NFL seems to care that much about what he wears. Just because he's not wearing a collared shirt and khakis on gameday doesn't make him any less professional.

-You may not have respect for him, but the fact of the matter is, is that he's still winning AFTER being caught. So clearly, him cheating didn't do that much more for him than not. He may not have won them, but he's been to 2 more SBs in 6 seasons, and he could make it 3 this year(I hope not).

Also, I never said it's alright to cheat as long as you're winning. So don't try to put that on me. I don't like the man for what he did either, but I can respect the fact that he's winning AFTER that whole incident. He had to prove himself all over again, and guess what? He did.

-Did I speculate about that? No. I stated a fact. The 2008 New England Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassel as the starting QB. That points to, at the very least, Bill Belichick creating a very complete team.

Hate on him for his clothes, hate on him for cheating; I don't care one iota. but you can't hate on his ability as a coach. Despite the scandal, he's still one of the best in the history of football.

[Lone Bengal]

I'm 22 years old and from New England my friends all Patriots fans have seen 5 Super Bowl appearances, 3 super bowl wins and multiple playoff wins were as I would be satisfied with one single playoff win which I have yet to witness. I believe the Bengals have a losing culture due to the standards of their front office which is the main reason Marvin is still their head coach. They were so bad in the 90's that their current teams of
mediocrity are actable because it was better then their past teams , where as in New England only Excellence is acceptable super bowl or bust. Marvin would have been fired 5 years ago, 9 years without a single playoff win would have been completely unacceptable and would have not got a 2 year extension coming off a 4-12 season in which we had a 10 game losing streak after starting 2-1.

[Luvnit2]

Originally Posted by whodey21

Like I always say, those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

I also always say that people who resort to name-calling are out of valid points to make.

My point all along has been that this franchise needs to change. The fact that you hand-picked the small part of the Mike Brown era where change (and a lot of luck) occurred and we have been marginally more successful also proves my point. Even so, I pose this question to you: How many winning seasons did we have in those 5 years? How many losing seasons? How many playoff wins? We are on the right track, but not going fast enough. I felt good the direction of things in 2005, too.

Since you think you are a history major, there is current history as well. I choose to see with my eyes more positives in our current history than negatives. You choose tro ignore current history and look back 20 years. Here is a clue for you, the NFL is different today. The NFL just added in a forced cao starting in 2013. Draft picks are paid less. It is great to look at history if it is relevent, but comparing 1990's to this decade makes no sense.

The Bengals will win soon (next two years) and when they do make sure you continue to blame the owner and coaches while the rest of relish in the fact they built a winner. You will cry it took too long. We won't care atthat point. Good things are worth the wait and make you appreciate them more in the end.