Dalton's stats with Binns/Tate/Sanu/Jones...

[Shake n Blake]

5 games with Binns starting: 111-169-1345-9-6 (92.9 passer rating)

3 games with Sanu starting: 55-89-639-9-0 (117.2 passer rating)

6 games with Tate/Jones starting: 129-214-1329-8-8 (75.1 passer rating)

Looking at these numbers makes it obvious. We have a serious problem at the 2 spot.

[TGISunday]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

5 games with Binns starting: 111-169-1345-9-6 (92.9 passer rating)

3 games with Sanu starting: 55-89-639-9-0 (117.2 passer rating)

6 games with Tate/Jones starting: 129-214-1329-8-8 (75.1 passer rating)

Looking at these numbers makes it obvious. We have a serious problem at the 2 spot.

Not that I totally disagree with you here, but we've not exactly isolated the variable with any degree of certainty. Scientifically, that's just bad form.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

5 games with Binns starting: 111-169-1345-9-6 (92.9 passer rating)

3 games with Sanu starting: 55-89-639-9-0 (117.2 passer rating)

6 games with Tate/Jones starting: 129-214-1329-8-8 (75.1 passer rating)

Looking at these numbers makes it obvious. We have a serious problem at the 2 spot.

Definately...and I think that problem is mainly in the Red Zone and catching ability. Sanu was a big Red Zone target and he had reliable hands.

Marvin Jones plays like a guy who should be a #4 or #5 WR right now. Maybe he develops into more some day...

I used to criticize how Binns was a #4 or #5 on a good NFL Team and people used to tell me how he was a #2 here...will him being waived seems to back what my contention was.

I'd say our best option here would be to go 2 TE and split Charles out as a WR more.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by TGISunday

Not that I totally disagree with you here, but we've not exactly isolated the variable with any degree of certainty. Scientifically, that's just bad form.

The variable is Sanu as the #2 WR.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

5 games with Binns starting: 111-169-1345-9-6 (92.9 passer rating)

3 games with Sanu starting: 55-89-639-9-0 (117.2 passer rating)

6 games with Tate/Jones starting: 129-214-1329-8-8 (75.1 passer rating)

Looking at these numbers makes it obvious. We have a serious problem at the 2 spot.

ATM but next year its looking good....

With your core of Sanu Green and Jones with some Charles/Gresham and a little dose of hawkins here and there....

(and we get a make you miss back in the 1st 2 rounds in the draft and this O is gonna be dangerous..)

for the current problem... Im not sure why we just cut binns he had his struggles and was benched but the whole team was having problems then too... (hes gone now so not much we can do about that)

But we should be looking at someone to help even though its close to years end. What about Hazelton..... If we arent gonna consider #85 who says he'd love to come back. (of all the players that left and then said i probly should have stayed... Chads the one i would welcome back...)

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by TGISunday

Not that I totally disagree with you here, but we've not exactly isolated the variable with any degree of certainty. Scientifically, that's just bad form.

Which variable? There's probably a hundred different variables to choose from.

I'm just going off who started the games at the 2 spot.

The difference seems obvious. Dalton's passer rating drops 20+ points with Tate/Jones.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

ATM but next year its looking good....

With your core of Sanu Green and Jones with some Charles/Gresham and a little dose of hawkins here and there....

(and we get a make you miss back in the 1st 2 rounds in the draft and this O is gonna be dangerous..)

for the current problem... Im not sure why we just cut binns he had his struggles and was benched but the whole team was having problems then too... (hes gone now so not much we can do about that)

But we should be looking at someone to help even though its close to years end. What about Hazelton..... If we arent gonna consider #85 who says he'd love to come back. (of all the players that left and then said i probly should have stayed... Chads the one i would welcome back...)

I still think we need to add another WR that is a legit #2.

I like Sanu, but he is more a possession WR/ Red Zone target. We need a #2 who has speed to go deep and then put Sanu as the #3 WR and that would be simply AWESOME! Plus, we'd have some redundancy in case of injury...as WR's get hurt.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Which variable? There's probably a hundred different variables to choose from.

I'm just going off who started the games at the 2 spot.

The difference seems obvious. Dalton's passer rating drops 20+ points with Tate/Jones.

Well i dont remember a game Tate has started. maybe 1 game and he probly only got a handful of snaps so if this is some sort of clever bash on Tate then fail. (hasnt been on the field enough)

[THE PISTONS]

I hate to go back to this, but had we signed a guy like Manningham in free agency one has to wonder how much better the team is.

We have had decent success this year, but we don't expend all of our resources (cap space) to improve the roster. A 2 year contract for Manningham wouldn't have hurt us.

[thompson19osu]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

ATM but next year its looking good....

With your core of Sanu Green and Jones with some Charles/Gresham and a little dose of hawkins here and there....

(and we get a make you miss back in the 1st 2 rounds in the draft and this O is gonna be dangerous..)

for the current problem... Im not sure why we just cut binns he had his struggles and was benched but the whole team was having problems then too... (hes gone now so not much we can do about that)

But we should be looking at someone to help even though its close to years end. What about Hazelton..... If we arent gonna consider #85 who says he'd love to come back. (of all the players that left and then said i probly should have stayed... Chads the one i would welcome back...)

I would not mind Chad coming back either. I also think we need a burner in the backfield for next year. Not to take away credit from Benny because he has been running very hard, but I just can't help but think what could have been if we had a burner back there. For example, the first offensive play last night goes for a gain of 29 and that's great, but Benny had just the safety to beat. If you have a back like Peterson/Martin/Wilson I think there is a really good chance that run goes to the house.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

Well i dont remember a game Tate has started. maybe 1 game and he probly only got a handful of snaps so if this is some sort of clever bash on Tate then fail. (hasnt been on the field enough)

Wasn't Tate the starter to begin the year?

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Wasn't Tate the starter to begin the year?

Tate has started 3 games this year. He's invisible as a wr, so I can't blame anyone for not noticing.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...T/TateBr00.htm

[BengalzHacker]

True, correlation does not necessarily equal causation. And while I tend to agree we could use another solid #2 receiver with Sanu being down, the bigger issue, IMHO is the pathetic OL pass blocking. They looked aweful.

I've read countless articles and threads about what AD is doing wrong, well, how about giving the guy some time in the pocket. I read one article saying that one of AD's worst traits is he doesn't let plays develop long enough. Well for goodness sake, if he doesn't launch the ball quick, he's being hit.

And I've been watching this closely. Teams with good quarterback play, give their QBs more time to sit in the pocket than teams with bad QB play. That would seem to be the most significant correlation to causation I see with this team. We've got to fix the pass pro.

I've seen AD drop back to pass and before he even gets to the back of his drop he's got people crashing in on him. That's ridiculous. People keep talking S or RB or LB in the 1st round next year, I'm thinking we need to invest our 1st round pick in another solid OL. The defense is 6th in the NFL, our tailback has had 4 out the last 5 games with 100 yards rushing. Fix the OL, then worry about the defense and the RB.

[Joelist]

At this point I would be for putting Charles out there also. Speed isn't as important here as catching the ball and being good in traffic. And for that Charles is the best option we have right now.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

I think it's pretty clear that #2 spot is very questionable for the rest of the season...

its a small sample size, but going forward I really like Sanu to take over there.I think with Green, Sanu, Gresham, Hawkins we have a pretty good unit, and if we could add a consistent performer to that (aka not Tate.. I'd add Jones but maybe give him more time to see if he can make the jump up) we could be pretty explosive in the passing game. I like Charles too, think he could add a bit to the offence also.

I'd agree with people, #2 WR spot is obviously unreliable atm, so lets try Charles a bit more. And also agreed that it's not necessarily cause we have little at #2 now, the O-Line pass protecting yesterday was a total joke, so it's no surprise that our passing game is taking a hit. Give Dalton time and we still have good talent on the field for him to throw to

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by BengalzHacker

True, correlation does not necessarily equal causation. And while I tend to agree we could use another solid #2 receiver with Sanu being down, the bigger issue, IMHO is the pathetic OL pass blocking. They looked aweful.

I've read countless articles and threads about what AD is doing wrong, well, how about giving the guy some time in the pocket. I read one article saying that one of AD's worst traits is he doesn't let plays develop long enough. Well for goodness sake, if he doesn't launch the ball quick, he's being hit.

And I've been watching this closely. Teams with good quarterback play, give their QBs more time to sit in the pocket than teams with bad QB play. That would seem to be the most significant correlation to causation I see with this team. We've got to fix the pass pro.

I've seen AD drop back to pass and before he even gets to the back of his drop he's got people crashing in on him. That's ridiculous. People keep talking S or RB or LB in the 1st round next year, I'm thinking we need to invest our 1st round pick in another solid OL. The defense is 6th in the NFL, our tailback has had 4 out the last 5 games with 100 yards rushing. Fix the OL, then worry about the defense and the RB.

It's multiple issues. Give Dalton time and the WR's will still drop passes. Gresham is inconsistant too.

[cin_city4L]

what is so great about Vidal Hazelton that makes some of you people want to see him out on the field on Sundays??

[Joelist]

Originally Posted by cin_city4L

what is so great about Vidal Hazelton that makes some of you people want to see him out on the field on Sundays??

Because he hasn't been given a chance and none of the other candidates seems to understand how to catch and hold on to the ball?

[shaolinghost]

All I know is, the 3 games Sanu was a starting receiver, Dalton averaged a 115.5QB rating and was only sacked 4 times.
Since Sanu's injury Dalton has an average QB rating of 72.4 and had been sacked 12 times.

Another big variable is Cook is now the starting center. 11 sacks have been given up the last 2 weeks. That's more than the last 6 games combined.

So clearly, Cook being IN the lineup, and Sanu being out are the biggest reasons why this team is struggling offensively. IMO

[Jay62107]

Originally Posted by cin_city4L

what is so great about Vidal Hazelton that makes some of you people want to see him out on the field on Sundays??

He went to UC.

[jj22]

We need to go after a vet this offseason. Not sure how with all of the free agents we have, but we need a guy on the outside with experience. Sanu impressed me, but only in the slot. We need another outside guy. It's hard to find a legit number 2. Look at the teams (Baltimore for example) that have been looking for one for years.

[shaolinghost]

Originally Posted by jj22

We need to go after a vet this offseason. Not sure how with all of the free agents we have, but we need a guy on the outside with experience. Sanu impressed me, but only in the slot. We need another outside guy. It's hard to find a legit number 2. Look at the teams (Baltimore for example) that have been looking for one for years.

There are a few guys that might do well until Sanu and/or Jones really comes into their own.

Welker
Driver(may have another year left)
Gaffney
Hartline
Henderson

All are set to be UFA after this season, and none of them should break the bank. I know Welker and Driver are mainly slot guys, but they could be used on the outside every now and then. Hell, their veteran knowledge alone would be worth the price.

[BengalzHacker]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

It's multiple issues. Give Dalton time and the WR's will still drop passes. Gresham is inconsistant too.

In regards to Gresham, no disagreement whatsoever. I think he has a really, really high ceiling, it just seems like his head has not been in some of these games.

As for the wide receivers dropping balls, AJ doesn't drop many, and even he's been bit by that bug of late. I think it's more mind over matter than it is talent. (I'm not a Tate fan by any means though.) I think our WRs just need to relax and play. I think they may be pressing a bit too much.

[basballguy]

People forget it was WEEK 10 before they figured out Sanu could play halfway decently.

Give Marvin Jones some time. He's a rookie....just like Sanu is.

[Steeler Eater]

Everyone will probably hate on the idea, but Dalton would be better suited playing with 2 TE's and using them frequently. Charles is a pretty sure handed receiver and we would benefit from using him. I love utilizing TE screens and we could really benefit from running 2 TE sets, just ask Tom Brady.