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  #151  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:12 PM
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I can't even put emotion into words. It's such a selfish crime by such a soulless human being. I actually went to the church and lit a couple candles tonight. I wasn't alone in doing so either. I could get into debates about what should or shouldn't happen, but tonight, I'm just saddened for the parents who won't be tucking their children to sleep tonight.
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  #152  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:24 PM
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That is totally false. They probably have 30 mass shootings/bombings every month in the middle east.

Get rid of guns and people will just start making bombs ala Timothy McVeigh.

Should we outlaw the simple materials that are used in bomb making?

Instead of using this as a chance to support a liberal agenda (gun control), we should look at the root of the problem.

Mental health issues (already addressed in this thread).

Taking away freedoms is a slippery slope and it wouldn't solve anything anyway.
Well, they should definitely outlaw making bombs to your every day citizen. I don't know the laws about it all that well, but mixing the raw materials to make some sort of explosive should be illegal. Like fireworks....you just can't make em, but it's cool for a professional to do so. I'm sure the laws are pretty strict regarding most....if not all....explosives. But no...the materials themselves should not be illegal.

I think guns are a problem in the wrong hands just as those explosives are. There needs to be MUCH more strict laws on gun ownership. Big time mental evaluations and a ton of training sound good to me. I would really like for there to be no guns allowed at all,....but I don't see that as any sort of option. You can't just get rid of them.

And I'm actually with you on the Mental Health issues. The thing is....did this guy ever display behavior before that would lead anyone to believe that he would go out and massacre a bunch of children. I'm not saying he did not have previous issues, I just haven't read anything about it. I don't see a good way to monitor an individual's mental health that has no previous record of mental illness.
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  #153  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:26 PM
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Thoughts and prayers for the families of all involved. What a sick world we live in. I wish there was a way we can put a stop to these shootings. Prayer is the only way I think.
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  #154  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:30 PM
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I can't even put emotion into words. It's such a selfish crime by such a soulless human being. I actually went to the church and lit a couple candles tonight. I wasn't alone in doing so either. I could get into debates about what should or shouldn't happen, but tonight, I'm just saddened for the parents who won't be tucking their children to sleep tonight.
It's a horrible situation. I'll go ahead and admit that most of my conversations about it have not been about the true tragedy of it all, but still....I'm saddened that this happened. I can't imagine the kind of pain that the family's and the entire community will go through for a very long time. My heart goes out to them, for sure.
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  #155  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:32 PM
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I think the Violence on TV really impacts alot of people and video games. I know some will disagree with me but I really think so. This world is going in the tank. I hope we can prevent something like this ever happening again or any other disaster. Maybe they should have securtiy guards at every school now.
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  #156  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:37 PM
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Well, they should definitely outlaw making bombs to your every day citizen. I don't know the laws about it all that well, but mixing the raw materials to make some sort of explosive should be illegal. Like fireworks....you just can't make em, but it's cool for a professional to do so. I'm sure the laws are pretty strict regarding most....if not all....explosives. But no...the materials themselves should not be illegal.

I think guns are a problem in the wrong hands just as those explosives are. There needs to be MUCH more strict laws on gun ownership. Big time mental evaluations and a ton of training sound good to me. I would really like for there to be no guns allowed at all,....but I don't see that as any sort of option. You can't just get rid of them.

And I'm actually with you on the Mental Health issues. The thing is....did this guy ever display behavior before that would lead anyone to believe that he would go out and massacre a bunch of children. I'm not saying he did not have previous issues, I just haven't read anything about it. I don't see a good way to monitor an individual's mental health that has no previous record of mental illness.
Well, I definitely think all automatic weapons should be outlawed completely.

Thing is, this guy used handguns and obtained them illegally.

He was 20 years old in a state that requires that people be 21 in order to obtain a gun.

As for guns being a bigger problem than bombs, that's only the case because guns are easily accessible.

Take away guns and I guarantee that bombs (and other weapons) become bigger problems.

Also, people would still be able to obtain guns on the black market.
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  #157  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:38 PM
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Well, they should definitely outlaw making bombs to your every day citizen. I don't know the laws about it all that well, but mixing the raw materials to make some sort of explosive should be illegal. Like fireworks....you just can't make em, but it's cool for a professional to do so. I'm sure the laws are pretty strict regarding most....if not all....explosives. But no...the materials themselves should not be illegal.

I think guns are a problem in the wrong hands just as those explosives are. There needs to be MUCH more strict laws on gun ownership. Big time mental evaluations and a ton of training sound good to me. I would really like for there to be no guns allowed at all,....but I don't see that as any sort of option. You can't just get rid of them.

And I'm actually with you on the Mental Health issues. The thing is....did this guy ever display behavior before that would lead anyone to believe that he would go out and massacre a bunch of children. I'm not saying he did not have previous issues, I just haven't read anything about it. I don't see a good way to monitor an individual's mental health that has no previous record of mental illness.
Try to procure the materials sufficient to build a bomb, even a small one, and see how quickly the FBI and Homeland Security show up at your doorstep. Since McVeigh, they have kept a VERY careful watch on that kind of stuff.

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It's a horrible situation. I'll go ahead and admit that most of my conversations about it have not been about the true tragedy of it all, but still....I'm saddened that this happened. I can't imagine the kind of pain that the family's and the entire community will go through for a very long time. My heart goes out to them, for sure.
This is how most people feel. Sometimes, the talk of politics and stuff is just people trying to find a way to distract their minds from the reality of an ugly and painful situation.
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  #158  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:39 PM
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Sadly gun laws could not have prevented the horrific massacres we have experienced as a nation over these past few years. The individual who perpetrated these senseless murders today had no criminal record, no reported psychiatric problems, and existed as a "normal" member of his local community. He would have passed any background check run against him.

We are misdirecting our ire and anger towards an ineffective band-aid to an overarching problem: individuals with mental health issues do not have access to the care they need. There are 58,000 places to buy a gun in America. How many places are there to get low cost mental health care?

Many insurance companies do not cover mental health services. I know mine doesn't. It's a travesty that disturbed minds like the one in Connecticut were not given the care they needed before they snapped. Those children and teachers paid the price. I don't want to excuse this man for his evil deeds, but we have to address this problem if we're going to prevent more heartbreaking tragedies.
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  #159  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:39 PM
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I think the Violence on TV really impacts alot of people and video games. I know some will disagree with me but I really think so. This world is going in the tank. I hope we can prevent something like this ever happening again or any other disaster. Maybe they should have securtiy guards at every school now.
I've always said no to this, but I'm starting to change my mind. I don't think playing games where you systematically murder people is any sort of good for a young person The way I've always thought is: I've played those games, but it doesn't make me want to go out and commit such a horrible act. BUT....I'm not insane like this guy clearly was.
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  #160  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:41 PM
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Were all in this together. I wish there was more love in the world and this stuff wouldnt happen.
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  #161  
Old 12-14-2012, 11:35 PM
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I own some firearms and I believe that we should not lose the right to have them. With that being said, there has to be more than a casual background check. There needs to be not only a criminal back ground check, but there also needs to be a check of the history of the family and a psych check. That is one thing in common with all these senseless acts of terror. A bad family background and mental problems. This act carried out today is just to tragic to put into words. This has to stop, and banning firearms is not the solution. My God a person who will turn firearms on children has no soul what so ever.
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  #162  
Old 12-15-2012, 12:01 AM
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I own some firearms and I believe that we should not lose the right to have them. With that being said, there has to be more than a casual background check. There needs to be not only a criminal back ground check, but there also needs to be a check of the history of the family and a psych check. That is one thing in common with all these senseless acts of terror. A bad family background and mental problems. This act carried out today is just to tragic to put into words. This has to stop, and banning firearms is not the solution. My God a person who will turn firearms on children has no soul what so ever.
I don't think any amount of gun control would have mattered here. Weren't the handguns, at least, registered to his mother. He stole those after killing her then went to the school. I don't know about the rifle he allegedly had.
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  #163  
Old 12-15-2012, 02:17 AM
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Another tragic mass murder. What are we to learn from this? How are we to keep this from happening again? Realistically?

I don't think it is feasible to ban guns in this country. First, the 2nd Amendment allows us the right to bear arms, and the Supreme Court has always interpreted that as the right to privately own firearms. This is one of the rights I spent 14 years in the military defending. I don't take it lightly. Second, there reportedly 270 million privately owned firearms in this country (at least from what I heard). I have yet to hear a reasonable proposal of how a government would go about the task of collecting that many firearms, particularly from a large portion of the population that does not want to relinquish them. Third, people can make guns. It's not easy, but it is far from rocket science.

Unless you somehow convince people to voluntarily turn in their firearms, it will never happen.

That said, I don't own any firearms. Never have. I have yet to be convinced that I need one. I don't hunt. And I refuse to give in to fear or intimidation or paranoia. I believe the right not to give in to those things is a right that we have as well... a God given right. I have faith in our professional peace officers to help protect those rights as best they can and in our legal system, flawed though it may seem sometimes.

I do not have faith amateurs and vigilantes with guns wanting to "do the right thing".

Having a media blackout when something like this happens? It's not really feasible due to social media. The trend now is that the mainstream media follows the social media, not the other way around. When something happens anywhere, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc. are instantly flooded with pix and eyewitness reports. And then there is also the thing about "freedom of the press".

How about mental health? Can't we track these people down before they blow? That's a rather naive and simplistic answer to a complex problem. Symptoms of one problem can be confused with symptoms of another problem. That's if you can see any symptoms at all or even realize that they are symptoms. If the person has shown no propensity to hurt himself (these killers are always male) or to hurt others (and most of them haven't), then society has very little legal grounds to pull a person out of society and curtail their rights. It should also be noted that most of these men are in their early twenties, a time when chemical imbalances can appear quite suddenly and abruptly as the physiology changes. As beneficial as I think it would be to require coursework in mental health in our high schools, I don't really see that as feasible either.

We have yet to find an answer to prevent this violence. We can only grieve and observe... and give thanks that our families have been spared.
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  #164  
Old 12-15-2012, 08:35 AM
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Another tragic mass murder. What are we to learn from this? How are we to keep this from happening again? Realistically?

I don't think it is feasible to ban guns in this country. First, the 2nd Amendment allows us the right to bear arms, and the Supreme Court has always interpreted that as the right to privately own firearms. This is one of the rights I spent 14 years in the military defending. I don't take it lightly. Second, there reportedly 270 million privately owned firearms in this country (at least from what I heard). I have yet to hear a reasonable proposal of how a government would go about the task of collecting that many firearms, particularly from a large portion of the population that does not want to relinquish them. Third, people can make guns. It's not easy, but it is far from rocket science.

Unless you somehow convince people to voluntarily turn in their firearms, it will never happen.

That said, I don't own any firearms. Never have. I have yet to be convinced that I need one. I don't hunt. And I refuse to give in to fear or intimidation or paranoia. I believe the right not to give in to those things is a right that we have as well... a God given right. I have faith in our professional peace officers to help protect those rights as best they can and in our legal system, flawed though it may seem sometimes.

I do not have faith amateurs and vigilantes with guns wanting to "do the right thing".

Having a media blackout when something like this happens? It's not really feasible due to social media. The trend now is that the mainstream media follows the social media, not the other way around. When something happens anywhere, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc. are instantly flooded with pix and eyewitness reports. And then there is also the thing about "freedom of the press".

How about mental health? Can't we track these people down before they blow? That's a rather naive and simplistic answer to a complex problem. Symptoms of one problem can be confused with symptoms of another problem. That's if you can see any symptoms at all or even realize that they are symptoms. If the person has shown no propensity to hurt himself (these killers are always male) or to hurt others (and most of them haven't), then society has very little legal grounds to pull a person out of society and curtail their rights. It should also be noted that most of these men are in their early twenties, a time when chemical imbalances can appear quite suddenly and abruptly as the physiology changes. As beneficial as I think it would be to require coursework in mental health in our high schools, I don't really see that as feasible either.

We have yet to find an answer to prevent this violence. We can only grieve and observe... and give thanks that our families have been spared.
Good post. I actually logged on to mention just how unrealistic it would be to try to ban guns, and some of the fallout that could occur if it were to happen. As you mention, 270,000,000 guns would be rather hard to collect, but lets say the POTUS actually orders National Guard Troops to collect guns (there was actually a rumor that this might happen back in 2008, my last year in the Guard).

There would be all kinds of resistance from gun lovers (some may fight to the death). I could also see riots and all sorts of carnage. As you mention, it would not be difficult for people to make homemade guns. Also, it would probably take several decades for manufactured guns to start becoming rare on the black market.

In short, I don't see it as realistic at all, and I respect the rights of others who feel the need to "bear arms" (not sure how else that could be interpreted, btw). I, like you, have never felt the need to own one and probably never will, but I'm not really big on rights that have been around for rights that have been around for 223 years just disappearing over the actions of a few.
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If you think Dalton will average 25 passes per game, put your money where your mouth is. I'll even make it easy on you.

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  #165  
Old 12-15-2012, 09:09 AM
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No one but the most extreme people would consider banning all guns. And with any type of limitation to gun ownership, those already in the populace would be grandfathered in.

I have said, and will say it again, there is zero need for semi-automatic weapons and fully automatic weapons in the civilian population. Even double action revolvers are unnecessary. People can say these types of laws would not have prevented this, but I can say that had the weapons I think are unnecessary not been allowed in the populace, maybe the shooter yesterday would have used something else, but he wouldn't have been able to use what he did so easily.

Bushmaster .223, an AR style rifle
Sig Sauer 9mm
Glock 9mm

3 weapons designed for military use. Designed to kill humans, not animals. Tell me why we should make tools designed for killing humans so widely available when it is illegal to do so.

And yeah, maybe he could have acquired them on the black market, but I can also acquire C-4 and other explosives it is illegal to own without proper licensing. I can get an RPG, an AT-4, even a Javelin if I had the money. But these things are not legal for a civilian to own. So the reasoning I am seeing is that because I can still get them on the black market, we should just bother making them illegal to own.

And "only criminals would have them if we banned them"? Really? Then I guess we should have no laws if criminals are just going to break them anyway. Highways deaths are more common? Imagine what they would be without all the rules regarding safety designs, laws of driving, licensing requirements. Makes sense some of that stuff should be done with firearm ownership.

It just amazes me the excuses we use to continue allowing easy access to weapons that can kill 20 people in a matter of seconds. At least with bomb materials you have to get hands on and work the mixture and what not. All you have to do with an assault rifle or a semi-auto handgun is slap in a loaded magazine and pull a trigger.

And with that, I'm done. I probably won't convince any of the apologists out there when it comes to owning any type of gun you wish, and I can't be convinced of any need to own the weapons I brought up. So I'm done with this topic for this thread. It's just sad that fear mongering has lead to the ease of availability for these weapons.
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  #166  
Old 12-15-2012, 09:25 AM
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Shake, google "conversion to Islam" and "flight schools" now too. Time how long it takes for the black helicopters and all black SUV's to show up.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:32 AM
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I am always surprised about stories like this. Realistically, I like to believe that if I were to go on a killing spree, 20 would be a low mark, almost an utter failure. People who go on sprees such as these want to be caught, draw attention, and have zero intent on escaping.


As for methology, guns are more convient, but one could just as easily bajha a vehicle through a crowded area and kill a good number, pending nothing got hung up underneath and jammed up the tires.


It is a fluke tragedy that will continue to occur. If someone is willing to sacrifice their own life to take many, they will be successful, more often than not.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:43 AM
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Shake, google "conversion to Islam" and "flight schools" now too. Time how long it takes for the black helicopters and all black SUV's to show up.
Yeah, in hindsight, maybe that wasn't such a bright idea.
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If you think Dalton will average 25 passes per game, put your money where your mouth is. I'll even make it easy on you.

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  #169  
Old 12-15-2012, 09:51 AM
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Yeah, in hindsight, maybe that wasn't such a bright idea.
dont worry. youre not the idiot who clicked the link
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:09 AM
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No one but the most extreme people would consider banning all guns. And with any type of limitation to gun ownership, those already in the populace would be grandfathered in.

I have said, and will say it again, there is zero need for semi-automatic weapons and fully automatic weapons in the civilian population. Even double action revolvers are unnecessary. People can say these types of laws would not have prevented this, but I can say that had the weapons I think are unnecessary not been allowed in the populace, maybe the shooter yesterday would have used something else, but he wouldn't have been able to use what he did so easily.

Bushmaster .223, an AR style rifle
Sig Sauer 9mm
Glock 9mm

3 weapons designed for military use. Designed to kill humans, not animals. Tell me why we should make tools designed for killing humans so widely available when it is illegal to do so.

And yeah, maybe he could have acquired them on the black market, but I can also acquire C-4 and other explosives it is illegal to own without proper licensing. I can get an RPG, an AT-4, even a Javelin if I had the money. But these things are not legal for a civilian to own. So the reasoning I am seeing is that because I can still get them on the black market, we should just bother making them illegal to own.

And "only criminals would have them if we banned them"? Really? Then I guess we should have no laws if criminals are just going to break them anyway. Highways deaths are more common? Imagine what they would be without all the rules regarding safety designs, laws of driving, licensing requirements. Makes sense some of that stuff should be done with firearm ownership.

It just amazes me the excuses we use to continue allowing easy access to weapons that can kill 20 people in a matter of seconds. At least with bomb materials you have to get hands on and work the mixture and what not. All you have to do with an assault rifle or a semi-auto handgun is slap in a loaded magazine and pull a trigger.

And with that, I'm done. I probably won't convince any of the apologists out there when it comes to owning any type of gun you wish, and I can't be convinced of any need to own the weapons I brought up. So I'm done with this topic for this thread. It's just sad that fear mongering has lead to the ease of availability for these weapons.
Well articulated Matt. You have written what I feel exactly on this issue.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:17 AM
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Wonderful summation.

http://www.albertmohler.com/2012/12/...n-connecticut/
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RhythmicGeek View Post
No one but the most extreme people would consider banning all guns. And with any type of limitation to gun ownership, those already in the populace would be grandfathered in.

I have said, and will say it again, there is zero need for semi-automatic weapons and fully automatic weapons in the civilian population. Even double action revolvers are unnecessary. People can say these types of laws would not have prevented this, but I can say that had the weapons I think are unnecessary not been allowed in the populace, maybe the shooter yesterday would have used something else, but he wouldn't have been able to use what he did so easily.

Bushmaster .223, an AR style rifle
Sig Sauer 9mm
Glock 9mm

3 weapons designed for military use. Designed to kill humans, not animals. Tell me why we should make tools designed for killing humans so widely available when it is illegal to do so.

And yeah, maybe he could have acquired them on the black market, but I can also acquire C-4 and other explosives it is illegal to own without proper licensing. I can get an RPG, an AT-4, even a Javelin if I had the money. But these things are not legal for a civilian to own. So the reasoning I am seeing is that because I can still get them on the black market, we should just bother making them illegal to own.

And "only criminals would have them if we banned them"? Really? Then I guess we should have no laws if criminals are just going to break them anyway. Highways deaths are more common? Imagine what they would be without all the rules regarding safety designs, laws of driving, licensing requirements. Makes sense some of that stuff should be done with firearm ownership.

It just amazes me the excuses we use to continue allowing easy access to weapons that can kill 20 people in a matter of seconds. At least with bomb materials you have to get hands on and work the mixture and what not. All you have to do with an assault rifle or a semi-auto handgun is slap in a loaded magazine and pull a trigger.

And with that, I'm done. I probably won't convince any of the apologists out there when it comes to owning any type of gun you wish, and I can't be convinced of any need to own the weapons I brought up. So I'm done with this topic for this thread. It's just sad that fear mongering has lead to the ease of availability for these weapons.
I can load, shoot, and reload a single shot shotgun 20 times in under 40 seconds. I guess single shot shotguns, perhaps one of the safest guns in America, have to be banned to, because people can shoot them quickly.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:24 AM
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeezyBengal View Post
Unfortunately, that is impossible. Gun control on the other hand, is possible.
Yes it is, because controlling guns will definitely keep criminals away from guns. After all, if theyre illegal, criminals wouldnt break the law to get them. oh wait

Last edited by browns town bengal; 12-15-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:27 AM
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Personally, I hate guns. Ive fired a pistol once in my life and didnt care for it. I have no desire to get a gun myself but I have no problem with responsible citizens owning them.
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