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Old 12-16-2012, 03:59 PM
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Default The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

I have to be very careful here, so I don't violate the COC for the site. This cowardly act has effected everyone in the Nation, we have children or not. This is like something you would read about happening in Isreal, Pakistan, or some other country over there. This is not supposed to be happening in this country. As drastic as this may seem, I believe the following steps need to be taken to protect the children and the teachers.

1. Armed security guards at the entrances. Once classes start, the doors are locked. If there is an emergency such as a fire, the guards can open the door to make sure everyone gets out.

2. An increased police presence, the schools should be a regular part of their patrols during the day.

3. The 2nd amendment needs to be updated to exclude automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

These may seem like drastic measures, but after the horrific events of yesterday, I do not believe anything is to drastic.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by silenetwolf View Post
I have to be very careful here, so I don't violate the COC for the site. This cowardly act has effected everyone in the Nation, we have children or not. This is like something you would read about happening in Isreal, Pakistan, or some other country over there. This is not supposed to be happening in this country. As drastic as this may seem, I believe the following steps need to be taken to protect the children and the teachers.

1. Armed security guards at the entrances. Once classes start, the doors are locked. If there is an emergency such as a fire, the guards can open the door to make sure everyone gets out.

2. An increased police presence, the schools should be a regular part of their patrols during the day.

3. The 2nd amendment needs to be updated to exclude automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

These may seem like drastic measures, but after the horrific events of yesterday, I do not believe anything is to drastic.
Agree with 1 and 2, disagree with 3.

I personally believe teachers should go through conceal carry classes and be armed. Can't wait to see the response to that view.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

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Agree with 1 and 2, disagree with 3.

I personally believe teachers should go through conceal carry classes and be armed. Can't wait to see the response to that view.
Not trying to start a debate but what happens if the teacher and a student get into a heated exchange in a class room, and a student starts swinging at him and the teacher shoots him in front of the class? In a situation such as yesterday, it would have obviously been an idea that could have saved many lives, but I don't believe it's the right thing to implement. Just my opinion, however.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:39 PM
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Not trying to start a debate but what happens if the teacher and a student get into a heated exchange in a class room, and a student starts swinging at him and the teacher shoots him in front of the class? In a situation such as yesterday, it would have obviously been an idea that could have saved many lives, but I don't believe it's the right thing to implement. Just my opinion, however.

I doubt the gun would be sitting right there in the open ready to grab and fire in this case.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:41 PM
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I doubt the gun would be sitting right there in the open ready to grab and fire in this case.
True, I guess for some reason I was imaging him having it holstered onto his hip or something. Even still, something as crazy as that could still occur.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:21 PM
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Not trying to start a debate but what happens if the teacher and a student get into a heated exchange in a class room, and a student starts swinging at him and the teacher shoots him in front of the class? In a situation such as yesterday, it would have obviously been an idea that could have saved many lives, but I don't believe it's the right thing to implement. Just my opinion, however.
that argument is a slippery slope toward being for a complete gun ban...you could make that same argument for any individual in public with a firearm on their person. if you can't trust a public official trained in the use of firearms with a firearm...then who can you trust?
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

1. Sounds like a good idea. But schools are already strapped for cash. These armed guards aren't volunteers. And "armed" seems a bit drastic.

2. They already do this.

3. If you make them illegal, they will still exist, and freaks will still have them.

I hear what your saying and in a more perfect world, this wouldn't be a topic. So sad.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:08 PM
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that argument is a slippery slope toward being for a complete gun ban...you could make that same argument for any individual in public with a firearm on their person. if you can't trust a public official trained in the use of firearms with a firearm...then who can you trust?
Is your argument that teachers should be policemen as well?

I don't see that happening. It's hard enough for teachers to do what they are already trained to do.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:24 PM
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Is your argument that teachers should be policemen as well?

I don't see that happening. It's hard enough for teachers to do what they are already trained to do.
just responding to the original comment...that teachers should be trained in conceal firearm training and authorized to hold a firearm...if you don't trust a teacher trained just like anyone else holding a concealed firearm...how do you trust anyone holding a firearm? are there not just as many children out in public at a mall for example?

and multiple state courts have ruled that teachers are "public officials"...public official does not mean police officer.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

It doesnt have to do with gun control and security as much as it has to do with the people that commit these crimes. The people that do these types of things are mentally ill and there is no cure. The parents try to hang in there and help as much as they can but they are fighting a battle impossible to win.

If your child has anger issues, is mentally ill, and threatens to kill you or someone else, what can we do as a society? We can give them meds and therapy, but these people are still unstable. We can lock them up in jail, but that isnt helping anyone. Jails have become the new mental hospitals. Its a band aid for a serious problem, not a solution.

Nothing is going to change until some sort of mental health reform is taken upon. Its time to stop turning our back on the mentally ill before more innocent people are killed.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

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Originally Posted by WhoDeyJon View Post
Agree with 1 and 2, disagree with 3.

I personally believe teachers should go through conceal carry classes and be armed. Can't wait to see the response to that view.
I think this is a good idea but I dont think every teacher needs to do this. There could be a few faculty that can have access to the guns (keep them in a lock box in a main office somewhere) and these same faculty should be trained on how to use them properly. Each school should have somewhat of an emergency response team. The members of this team would be completely voluntary.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

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just responding to the original comment...that teachers should be trained in conceal firearm training and authorized to hold a firearm...if you don't trust a teacher trained just like anyone else holding a concealed firearm...how do you trust anyone holding a firearm? are there not just as many children out in public at a mall for example?

and multiple state courts have ruled that teachers are "public officials"...public official does not mean police officer.
The fact is, I don't trust anyone outside of peace officers walking around in public with firearms, "trained" or not. It is like trying to put out a fire by adding gasoline to it. When people who are trained with firearms have as much training as police officers, then I might feel differently. But when you consider that the bulk of police training is how to handle situations and how to use sound judgment as opposed to how to safely store and operate the firearm, then you'll realize why I don't place my trust in "just like anybody else"... public official or not.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:48 PM
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I think this is a good idea but I dont think every teacher needs to do this. There could be a few faculty that can have access to the guns (keep them in a lock box in a main office somewhere) and these same faculty should be trained on how to use them properly. Each school should have somewhat of an emergency response team. The members of this team would be completely voluntary.
This^. That is an idea I can get behind.

Add guards and/or an in-house emergency response team. Maybe one or two that are trained and have access to firearms.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:51 PM
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No no no. The children will worry daily about their safety if they see an armed building. Doesn't seem like a pleasant or inviting learning environment.

How about a simple remote locked doors and surveillance camera system. Has worked keeping strangers out of urban schools for years. This scenario isn't a regular event by any means. Keep in mind that previous school killings involved students. This is the perfect storm of stuff we really have no idea about yet. It seems the kid wasn't right in the head...his mom loooooved big guns and showed him how to shoot big guns. We don't know all the details yet, but I suspect it could have been stopped at home by simply owning a gun safe.

Don't make the kids suffer anymore. Fix the ill. If they can't be fixed remove them from society.
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Its not like flattened her with a closed fist. She was rudely bothering him for an autograph.She drilled him right in the eye with a full glass of beer as a natural reaction he got angry and smacked her hard. It could have and probably has happened to quite a few people
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

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Originally Posted by silenetwolf View Post
I have to be very careful here, so I don't violate the COC for the site. This cowardly act has effected everyone in the Nation, we have children or not. This is like something you would read about happening in Isreal, Pakistan, or some other country over there. This is not supposed to be happening in this country. As drastic as this may seem, I believe the following steps need to be taken to protect the children and the teachers.

1. Armed security guards at the entrances. Once classes start, the doors are locked. If there is an emergency such as a fire, the guards can open the door to make sure everyone gets out.

2. An increased police presence, the schools should be a regular part of their patrols during the day.

3. The 2nd amendment needs to be updated to exclude automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

These may seem like drastic measures, but after the horrific events of yesterday, I do not believe anything is to drastic.
I'm not used to horrible posts from you. For the most part you seem like a likable guy so don't take offense, please, but I see quite a lot of problems with this.

I'll start with the title. I saw that and thought it would just be a tasteless joke such as a poem fashioned after a traditional poem. When hovering without clicking I saw it wasn't a joke and became more concerned.

First, you acknowledged the sicko by using his name. In and of itself that is understandable since the media manages to plaster people's names giving them this same status. I think the media as well as regular people should not acknowledge them by name. Not too big of a deal there as I said, just something I disagree with.

You went on in the title to use the close proximity to Christmas to tug at people's heartstrings while making a political statement. I know it's done all the time but by doing so you are the one connecting it to a holiday which people are supposed to view with joy. Still not a big deal to me since I don't even celebrate the holiday.

Now on to your bullet points.

You are approaching the symptoms, not the illness. Indirectly I touched on this in another thread. Availability of guns is not the cause (illness). Even the events are not the illness itself. It's a societal issue. We lack in people understanding mental illnesses that could pose a threat to others. This ability should not be limited to just those working in the field of mental health. Many elements of psychology, sociology and social psychology (yes, it is a third distinct study) should be required in basic education. (Imagine the how fast that would minimize internet trolls, lol). I'm not saying make everyone an expert in the field, but if enough people had a basic understanding, people such as this guy might be dealt with more effectively. It might also help them to understand themselves.

Armed guards in schools could and probably would imprint an eternal message on children. This would impose a sense of martial law in our schools over what really amounts to a handful of isolated incidents. Have you ever talked to someone who has grew up in, lived in, or visited a place under martial law. I have talked to many people including a psychologist and a sociologist about the effect of this type of environment. The presence of armed guards would have a negative effect on the kids and possible create more people with the dysfunctions that lead to the very behavior by normalizing certain images and reinforcing feelings of vulnerability.

Anyway, I could say so much more but I will leave it at a starting point of a train of thought.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:54 PM
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No no no. The children will worry daily about their safety if they see an armed building. Doesn't seem like a pleasant or inviting learning environment.

How about a simple remote locked doors and surveillance camera system. Has worked keeping strangers out of urban schools for years. This scenario isn't a regular event by any means. Keep in mind that previous school killings involved students. This is the perfect storm of stuff we really have no idea about yet. It seems the kid wasn't right in the head...his mom loooooved big guns and showed him how to shoot big guns. We don't know all the details yet, but I suspect it could have been stopped at home by simply owning a gun safe.

Don't make the kids suffer anymore. Fix the ill. If they can't be fixed remove them from society.
I agree with this but how exactly do you intend to remove them from society? This is a serious question, im not trying to be a ********.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:57 PM
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If your child has anger issues, is mentally ill, and threatens to kill you or someone else, what can we do as a society? We can give them meds and therapy, but these people are still unstable. We can lock them up in jail, but that isnt helping anyone. Jails have become the new mental hospitals. Its a band aid for a serious problem, not a solution.

.
Locking them up is not a bad idea at all. In fact it may be our easiest solution. Try gathering all the guns and see how many killings that spawns. If the adults won't take their meds then lock them up. If they are a danger to others why not give them drug tests to make sure they are taking meds?

We need to try to nip the problem in the bud, not live in fear while wrapping the country in bullet proof vests.
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Its not like flattened her with a closed fist. She was rudely bothering him for an autograph.She drilled him right in the eye with a full glass of beer as a natural reaction he got angry and smacked her hard. It could have and probably has happened to quite a few people
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

The simple way to secure any place at all is to use an access badge with a chip in it and a card reader at every door. Just present the badge to the card reader, key in a pin number known only to you, and the door unlocks. If the pin given is incorrect, you get another try. If that fails, alarms go off everywhere. I've worked at places like this and it's fantastic.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

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I personally believe teachers should go through conceal carry classes and be armed. Can't wait to see the response to that view.
I've been saying this all weekend...
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

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Agree with 1 and 2, disagree with 3.

I personally believe teachers should go through conceal carry classes and be armed. Can't wait to see the response to that view.

I can see the reasoning behind this, but as a teacher, I fully disagree. I think that would be a huge mistake. The last thing you want in a school or classroom is a gun. Thats what a security guard is for. There are police guards that walk through school or remain at the front door to make sure there are no issues.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:21 AM
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The simple way to secure any place at all is to use an access badge with a chip in it and a card reader at every door. Just present the badge to the card reader, key in a pin number known only to you, and the door unlocks. If the pin given is incorrect, you get another try. If that fails, alarms go off everywhere. I've worked at places like this and it's fantastic.
This only works if there are no windows or glass doors. This whack job kid shot out a pane of glass to gain entry to the building.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:40 AM
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1. Sounds like a good idea. But schools are already strapped for cash. These armed guards aren't volunteers. And "armed" seems a bit drastic.
I would propose picking a few select voluntary school staff to take extensive firearm training with retraining annually.

Bump their salary to reflect the training and to add incentive.

Have these staff members in a strategic area or patrols during school hours and/or watching cameras placed in strategic areas with all of the exits locked down from the outside. And have these staff work on a rotating basis during their free periods.

This would solve the problem of the cost of full time armed security and there would be no firearms in the classrooms.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:02 PM
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1. Sounds like a good idea. But schools are already strapped for cash. These armed guards aren't volunteers. And "armed" seems a bit drastic.

2. They already do this.

3. If you make them illegal, they will still exist, and freaks will still have them.

I hear what your saying and in a more perfect world, this wouldn't be a topic. So sad.
Not saying you are wrong, but would that lady have owned them, if they were illegal?
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: The Lanza That Stole Christmas.

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1. Sounds like a good idea. But schools are already strapped for cash. These armed guards aren't volunteers. And "armed" seems a bit drastic.

2. They already do this.

3. If you make them illegal, they will still exist, and freaks will still have them.

I hear what your saying and in a more perfect world, this wouldn't be a topic. So sad.
How do you put a cost on a child's life. I am not saying ban all weapons just the ones that are used for war.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by silenetwolf View Post
I have to be very careful here, so I don't violate the COC for the site. This cowardly act has effected everyone in the Nation, we have children or not. This is like something you would read about happening in Isreal, Pakistan, or some other country over there. This is not supposed to be happening in this country. As drastic as this may seem, I believe the following steps need to be taken to protect the children and the teachers.

1. Armed security guards at the entrances. Once classes start, the doors are locked. If there is an emergency such as a fire, the guards can open the door to make sure everyone gets out.

2. An increased police presence, the schools should be a regular part of their patrols during the day.

3. The 2nd amendment needs to be updated to exclude automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

These may seem like drastic measures, but after the horrific events of yesterday, I do not believe anything is to drastic.
Where the hell is the school gonna get budgets for that? they have trouble even keeping any extra classes and such.

This just takes more freedom away. I if i had a child would not want to send them to an education prison every day. which is what it would be like.

Its just impossible for prepare for everything or every idiot out there and we will ruin ourselves if we try.
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