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  #126  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: How do you feel about guns?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...#ixzz2FF7HwL1a

Texas....interesting.
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  #127  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CinciREborn View Post
Thank you

I just realized what he ment by that
My pastor, is a gun owning, second amendment supporting believer who proudly stands for the same things our founding fathers stood for

I like freedom

If you want socialism go to canada
Mine is as well. I just get tired of the whole notion that if you own a gun that CAN kill someone that that is the REASON you own one.

I own guns for many reasons:

1) It's my 2nd amendment freedom
2) It protects my family and me in the event some tries to harm us
3) It's an amazing time to get out with your kids and spend quality time with them plinking, shooting ranges, hunting


Just 3, and none of them have anything to do with what he is implying.
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  #128  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:05 PM
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Notice I differentiate between the offensive killing, and defensive killing. Weapons designed for military/LE use are for offensive purposes.

And these types of events do not color my opinion, this has been my opinion for a long time just based on my views.
So you differentiate in the types of killing. Not the point. I don't see how you could deny the extremely remote possibility exists that those weapons would be needed, and that is what they were designed for, a situation where offensive is a defensive. I understand seeing it as remote enough of a possibility to decide not to own them, but others just don't agree.

You prove to me the manufactures designed those weapons for murder, and not legal killing, you will have a point.
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  #129  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: How do you feel about guns?

This was in Arizona, this year. The officers comments are of particular interest. I am curious for those who are antigun, what would you have rather the teenager do?:

If there was ever a reason why we have a Second Amendment and a Right to Bear Arms, one needs to look no further than the following story.

A 14 year old Phoenix, AZ boy shot an intruder who had broke into his home as the boy was looking out for three siblings, ages 12, 10 and 8. The 37 year old home invader was carrying a gun was shot and is in critical condition, but expected to live. What a brave act on the part of this 14 year old boy. Look what happens when law abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns.

The teen and his brothers and sisters were at home alone at their residence at 55th Avenue and Baseline when a woman rang the doorbell Friday. The teen didnít open the door because he didnít recognize her, Police Officer James Holmes said Saturday.

Soon after, the teen heard a bang on the door, rushed his siblings upstairs and got a handgun from his parentís bedroom. When he got to the top of the stairs, he saw a man breaking through the front door and point a gun at him.

The boy shot the 37-year-old man, who is in critical condition but expected to survive and be booked into jail.

Comments Police Officer James Holmes:

Holmes hailed the teenís actions and his parents for teaching the kids to never open the door to strangers.

ďThe police and indeed our community does not ever want to see a situation where a teenager of that age has to take a weapon to protect his family Ö but this young man did exactly what he should have done,Ē he said. ďIím not sure he gave full thought about what he had to do. He just acted.Ē
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  #130  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: How do you feel about guns?

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Originally Posted by WhoDeyJon View Post
This was in Arizona, this year. The officers comments are of particular interest. I am curious for those who are antigun, what would you have rather the teenager do?:

If there was ever a reason why we have a Second Amendment and a Right to Bear Arms, one needs to look no further than the following story.

A 14 year old Phoenix, AZ boy shot an intruder who had broke into his home as the boy was looking out for three siblings, ages 12, 10 and 8. The 37 year old home invader was carrying a gun was shot and is in critical condition, but expected to live. What a brave act on the part of this 14 year old boy. Look what happens when law abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns.

The teen and his brothers and sisters were at home alone at their residence at 55th Avenue and Baseline when a woman rang the doorbell Friday. The teen didnít open the door because he didnít recognize her, Police Officer James Holmes said Saturday.

Soon after, the teen heard a bang on the door, rushed his siblings upstairs and got a handgun from his parentís bedroom. When he got to the top of the stairs, he saw a man breaking through the front door and point a gun at him.

The boy shot the 37-year-old man, who is in critical condition but expected to survive and be booked into jail.

Comments Police Officer James Holmes:

Holmes hailed the teenís actions and his parents for teaching the kids to never open the door to strangers.

ďThe police and indeed our community does not ever want to see a situation where a teenager of that age has to take a weapon to protect his family Ö but this young man did exactly what he should have done,Ē he said. ďIím not sure he gave full thought about what he had to do. He just acted.Ē
the female was a trick to see if someone was home.... this kid was smart. And his parents extremely smart for teaching him..

Look a Person with proper respect for a weapon (not a toy) and proper knowledge of when to use said weapon.

If it were illegal to own a gun you can bet that armed robber would have still had one at his disposal.
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  #131  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:15 PM
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the female was a trick to see if someone was home.... this kid was smart. And his parents extremely smart for teaching him..

Look a Person with proper respect for a weapon (not a toy) and proper knowledge of when to use said weapon.

If it were illegal to own a gun you can bet that armed robber would have still had one at his disposal.
Agreed....agreed...agreed.....agreed.
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  #132  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:23 PM
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There is absolutely no connection, logically, between a gun a civilian can own legally for one purpose and a gun for military purpose (like the civilian AR15). Either one can be used to target shoot, hunt game, defend yourself, kill people in most of these situations.

Walking into a DEFENSELESS school like what just happened, someone would be able to do (within reason) just as much damage with almost any type of fire arm a US Citizen can legally buy/own. A captive, defenseless area would be easy to go through and just start killing..... with anything.

Mental health reform, and having an in-house reactionary team in schools would help cut this stuff out. I think that it should be well publicized that each school would have several teachers and staff have access to firearms and response training. The names of these teachers would NEVER be made public, preventing whoever would try an assault from knowing which rooms were safe and which were armed.

There's a reason why most of these attacks are public places where the audience is captive and docile. Because there is absolutely little to no threat of resistance. Make a threat of resistance well known.... these places wont be attacked. It's the same point I was making about using a dog as a theft deterrent. The threat of resistance presents danger and people are less likely to attempt to do harm.

The guy from Norway - Attacked a school. Why not a government building? His whole point was to make a political statement. It was because he knew if he walked into a Gov. building brandishing guns he would have been shot to pieces.

The kid in the movie theater - Defenseless people sitting in the dark. Why not a courthouse or an NRA meeting? Or a police station? Or a bank? Because there is no real threat in the movie theater and there is a possible threat in the other buildings.

This kid with Sandy Hook school - Innocent children. No threat.

If more buildings had large signs out front saying "We Support Conceal & Carry" or "Trained for threat resistance" I bet there would be less people wanting to go in shooting the place up.
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  #133  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: How do you feel about guns?

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Disagree with this. But...

If someone broke into your home to harm you snd your family, I bet you'd wish you had something reliable to indeed kill the person.
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Originally Posted by WhoDeyJon View Post
Just stop. Seriously. Nobody shared any fantasy about WANTING to kill people.

Do you have an issue with the law here in my state that says I can defend my family if a threat on their life takes place? If so, don't live here. Plain and simple. Live in New York or some other state that says you have to shoo them off with a flyswatter. As I said, I hope I never, ever have to be confronted with a dangerous situation such as this. I have zero desire to hurt anyone (which is where most anti-gun folks miss the point. They tend to believe gun owners own guns to try to hurt others, and that's not the case). However, my legal rights in my state say I can defend myself. You may not like it, whatever. But don't throw around statements like the one above when they are flat out false. I live where I live for a reason. I wouldn't move my family to a state that says I can't defend them. That's just ridiculous.
Ah... so it is fear that drives you and helps build these fantasies of justifiably killing someone breaking into your home.

Fear is something I understand well. And the more you understand it, the better you are at determining which fears are rational and which are irrational.

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Always smile, laugh and just enjoy life.
See. That's all you had to post there, bro. I get that.
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  #134  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:30 PM
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It's not a silly analogy at all. Just because you aren't understanding the logic doesn't make make it invalid.
Here is your problem in this argument. You fail to accept that some people, in some situations need to be killed. And the police or military, or whatever guardian angel you think is following you around more than likely aren't going to be there when if you are unlucky enough to ever meet someone like this.

A great many people in this world are very very very bad and will do horrible things to you if allowed. It's just how it is. One can chose to be prepared, or one cannot. One thing I don't feel is acceptable is for others to tell others which level of preparedness they are allowed to be. It's their life to protect as they see fit, not yours.
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  #135  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WhoDeyJon View Post
This was in Arizona, this year. The officers comments are of particular interest. I am curious for those who are antigun, what would you have rather the teenager do?:

If there was ever a reason why we have a Second Amendment and a Right to Bear Arms, one needs to look no further than the following story.

A 14 year old Phoenix, AZ boy shot an intruder who had broke into his home as the boy was looking out for three siblings, ages 12, 10 and 8. The 37 year old home invader was carrying a gun was shot and is in critical condition, but expected to live. What a brave act on the part of this 14 year old boy. Look what happens when law abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns.

The teen and his brothers and sisters were at home alone at their residence at 55th Avenue and Baseline when a woman rang the doorbell Friday. The teen didnít open the door because he didnít recognize her, Police Officer James Holmes said Saturday.

Soon after, the teen heard a bang on the door, rushed his siblings upstairs and got a handgun from his parentís bedroom. When he got to the top of the stairs, he saw a man breaking through the front door and point a gun at him.

The boy shot the 37-year-old man, who is in critical condition but expected to survive and be booked into jail.

Comments Police Officer James Holmes:

Holmes hailed the teenís actions and his parents for teaching the kids to never open the door to strangers.

ďThe police and indeed our community does not ever want to see a situation where a teenager of that age has to take a weapon to protect his family Ö but this young man did exactly what he should have done,Ē he said. ďIím not sure he gave full thought about what he had to do. He just acted.Ē
How about the 5 year old girl who's dad shot and killed her by accident last week when he was coming out of the gun store?

How about the other 5 year old girl who shot herself last week while playing with her daddy's handgun?


Yes... I know your story on this already: bad, nasty gunowners. If they just would have done the right thing!

And I'll bet they thought they were good gunowners before the incidents, just like all the other gunowners.
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  #136  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:31 PM
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There is absolutely no connection, logically, between a gun a civilian can own legally for one purpose and a gun for military purpose (like the civilian AR15). Either one can be used to target shoot, hunt game, defend yourself, kill people in most of these situations.
Absolutely correct


A hand gun is just a leathel as a AR14 (which are fun as hell to shoot by the way my cuz has one)


And no matter the weapon gun Other Projectile or Melee with the right training one could kill many people in these settings that dont allow weapons.

If someone wants to live in a land without firearms Britian provides such a place. there is always a risk/reward with these things.

And there will always be unpredictable crimes of passion/insanity


Instead of Gym class in schools we should have self defense classes which should also help the bullying issues.
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  #137  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CinciREborn View Post
Thank you

I just realized what he ment by that
My pastor, is a gun owning, second amendment supporting believer who proudly stands for the same things our founding fathers stood for

I like freedom

If you want socialism go to canada
Bengalzona is a combat veteran. I'm reasonably certain he likes freedom, too.

Can you and your pastor say the same about yourselves?
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  #138  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:32 PM
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Ah... so it is fear that drives you and helps build these fantasies of justifiably killing someone breaking into your home.

Fear is something I understand well. And the more you understand it, the better you are at determining which fears are rational and which are irrational.



See. That's all you had to post there, bro. I get that.
Are you one of those guys who thinks that nobody will ever break into your home because God protects it? Or that no harm will come to you because of God? I've run into a few those guys.
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  #139  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:34 PM
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How about the 5 year old girl who's dad shot and killed her by accident last week when he was coming out of the gun store?

How about the other 5 year old girl who shot herself last week while playing with her daddy's handgun?


Yes... I know your story on this already: bad, nasty gunowners. If they just would have done the right thing!

And I'll bet they thought they were good gunowners before the incidents, just like all the other gunowners.
If they had a gun with a 5 year old in the house it should have been in a Safe place like a Gun safe or had the trigger lock on it (and been unloaded)

Shot his daughter leaving the gun store? wasnt aware they let you walk out with those things loaded. If your not planning on killing something you shouldnt aim at it or remove the saftey.

Gun saftey classes would go a long way and parents instead of trying to hide their guns from their kids need to teach them to respect the guns.
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  #140  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:35 PM
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How about the 5 year old girl who's dad shot and killed her by accident last week when he was coming out of the gun store?

How about the other 5 year old girl who shot herself last week while playing with her daddy's handgun?


Yes... I know your story on this already: bad, nasty gunowners. If they just would have done the right thing!

And I'll bet they thought they were good gunowners before the incidents, just like all the other gunowners.
There are people killed by dogs, too. Bad owners there as well.

The stupidest story about accidental gun death is in (NJ I think?) there was a gun show and they were letting little kids fire guns. They let a 5 year old kid shoot a fully automatic Uzi. Gun kicked up..... nuff said.

People do horrific, stupid things.... with allllll sorts of stuff. You can't put everyone/thing in a bubble.
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  #141  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:38 PM
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Ah... so it is fear that drives you and helps build these fantasies of justifiably killing someone breaking into your home.

Fear is something I understand well. And the more you understand it, the better you are at determining which fears are rational and which are irrational.
You can call it fear if you would like, most rational people would call it wisdom.

I also don't handle poisonous snakes, or drive over power lines in a flood, or stick a screwdriver in a light socket, or jump off a cliff with no chute, or swim in a pool of man eating sharks, etc.....

You call it fear, I call it not being stupid.
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  #142  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:39 PM
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How about the 5 year old girl who's dad shot and killed her by accident last week when he was coming out of the gun store?

How about the other 5 year old girl who shot herself last week while playing with her daddy's handgun?


Yes... I know your story on this already: bad, nasty gunowners. If they just would have done the right thing!

And I'll bet they thought they were good gunowners before the incidents, just like all the other gunowners.
It *****. It ***** bad. But would you rather have had those kids in my example not be able to defend themselves because of these two examples? I wouldn't.
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  #143  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:40 PM
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Bengalzona is a combat veteran.
Very cool. Thanks for your service 'Zona!
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  #144  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:44 PM
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Does using an assault rifle as intended calm harm to those around you? The answer is also no.


I can't help you out buddy, I have to keep you on your toes.
It's an "assault" rifle. It's purpuse is included in it's name. They are designed for soldiers to assault an objective while killing or severly wounding as many enemy soldiers as possible with as little reloading as possible.

A manufacturer can market a M16 as an AR 15 to civilians for target practice, but that doesn't make an assault rifle a target rifle. It is essentially the same weapn designed for the same thing, only the marketing and advertising are different.
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  #145  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:52 PM
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Bengalzona is a combat veteran. I'm reasonably certain he likes freedom, too.

Can you and your pastor say the same about yourselves?
The Second Amendment was one of those rights I defended for 14 years... and I'll defend it still today.

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Are you one of those guys who thinks that nobody will ever break into your home because God protects it? Or that no harm will come to you because of God? I've run into a few those guys.
Nope. We have quite a few break-ins in our area. But "hot" break-ins are quite rare. Plus, I refuse to give in to fear. I'm not gonna let worrying about something that might happen mess with me. I've got better things to do... like posting dirty pictures in the "Clean Funny Pictures" thread.

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If they had a gun with a 5 year old in the house it should have been in a Safe place like a Gun safe or had the trigger lock on it (and been unloaded)

Shot his daughter leaving the gun store? wasnt aware they let you walk out with those things loaded. If your not planning on killing something you shouldnt aim at it or remove the saftey.

Gun saftey classes would go a long way and parents instead of trying to hide their guns from their kids need to teach them to respect the guns.
Apparently the guy who accidentally shot his daughter in PA didn't know there was a round in the chamber. He had just bought gun and was taking it to his truck where the girl was. A very sad story.
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  #146  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:58 PM
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The Second Amendment was one of those rights I defended for 14 years... and I'll defend it still today.


Quote:
Nope. We have quite a few break-ins in our area. But "hot" break-ins are quite rare. Plus, I refuse to give in to fear. I'm not gonna let worrying about something that might happen mess with me. I've got better things to do... like posting dirty pictures in the "Clean Funny Pictures" thread.
It's not fear, or worry. I seldom think about it. But wisdom says, be ready when it IS TIME to think about it.



Quote:
Apparently the guy who accidentally shot his daughter in PA didn't know there was a round in the chamber. He had just bought gun and was taking it to his truck where the girl was. A very sad story.
Terribly sad.
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  #147  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: How do you feel about guns?

I am a big gun rights supporter and believe that most people should know how to use one. I learned how to shoot when I was little and have a concealed license in Ohio, as well as the Florida one. As a Cub Scout leader my 7 year olds are taught how to use a riffle on a BSA approved range starting with BBs. When they are Boy Scouts they will be taught rifles and pistols using the real thing. My 11 and 13 year old daughters have also been taught to use one (again on ranges).
All that being said - I see no reason why someone needs to own an AK-47 and other tactical rifles or semi-automatic pistols. To me someone could easily defend themselves with a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun and/or a revolver - provided that they actually learn how to shoot.
On Friday, 20 babies were shot multiple times in what some don't realize was only a few minutes because the shooter was using assault weapons. Had he been using ordinary guns there would have been less dead and someone might have been able to stop him as he had to reload. This is the same trend with all of these mass shootings. They are able to take out a whole bunch of people in a very short amount of time.
I am not saying that these weapons should be out and out banned but they should be much harder to get. I also agree that there are also other non-gun related issues regarding this shooting that need to be discussed.
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  #148  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:19 PM
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Ugh

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/in-9...4#.UM9hyY7w5UQ
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  #149  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:39 PM
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Apparently the guy who accidentally shot his daughter in PA didn't know there was a round in the chamber. He had just bought gun and was taking it to his truck where the girl was. A very sad story.
Damn thats on the gun store doesnt make less tragic... But stilll Saftey on and never point it at something you dont entend to kill even if you dont think its loaded. (rules i have been taught just going shooting 2 times in my life.)
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: How do you feel about guns?

First rule of gun safety. One never picks up a weapon without first checking the chamber for live rounds.

Here's an interesting story one doesn't see in the main stream media about what really happened at the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Portland, OR.

http://www.examiner.com/article/medi...itizen?cid=rss
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Last edited by Sher Khan; 12-17-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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