IMO, the Pittsburgh game is make or break for Lewis.

[Cincy's Best]

Originally Posted by LeTigre

I get where you are coming from, but if we all had this mindset, there would be nothing to discuss or any point in being a fan. You could apply this to every Bengal employee and its the same. Let Mike Brown own the team and do it his way, let Katie sign whatever deal she wants with anyone, let the players play however they want.

I mean, it just doesn't really work that way. Marvin does a lot right. He also does a bunch of things wrong. People discuss the good things as well.

No I have a lot to discuss, like how even though it was risky, what about that high kick off that went to a DT and careened right off his chest and bounced back to Taylor Mays. That was an awesome call by Lewis and Simmons for having the guts to try it and give credit to the players for pulling it off.

As a fan I can pick anything to talk about. Lewis is not a perfect coach, however the OP doesn't seem to be hitting up an any relevant issues with Lewis just more of personal attacks, like closing his mouth.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Originally Posted by EyeOfTheTiger

Frankly, I don't. That's my opinion.

If you have Sirius NFL Radio, Marvin Lewis calls in every Thursday morning around 7:15. After listening to Marvin's Thursday morning call-in for over two seasons, I have a far different opinion of the man. Now in no way would I ever consider Marvin an elite coach or even one who can get the Bengals to the Super Bowl, but when I hear him talk and answer questions from the Sirius hosts, I compare Marvin to the other coaches I hear call in at their respective times and I would put him easily in the top five in the league with respect to pure intelligence.

Yes, I know: Marvin would make a perfect general manager and if wishes were trees we would all live in the shade.

Compared to some of the other coaches in the league, Marvin is a curve-busting nerd. You heard it here: He's extremely smart. With that being said, intelligence is half the battle because if intelligence was all anyone needed to succeed, Ryan Fitzpatrick would be the best quarterback in history. It takes the ability to apply that intelligence and Marvin has this when drafting and picking players from free agency. I'm not sure he's the field general type but he's more like the genius who needs to be running Human Resources.

[The Bengal Thing]

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

If you have Sirius NFL Radio, Marvin Lewis calls in every Thursday morning around 7:15. After listening to Marvin's Thursday morning call-in for over two seasons, I have a far different opinion of the man. Now in no way would I ever consider Marvin an elite coach or even one who can get the Bengals to the Super Bowl, but when I hear him talk and answer questions from the Sirius hosts, I compare Marvin to the other coaches I hear call in at their respective times and I would put him easily in the top five in the league with respect to pure intelligence.

Yes, I know: Marvin would make a perfect general manager and if wishes were trees we would all live in the shade.

Compared to some of the other coaches in the league, Marvin is a curve-busting nerd. You heard it here: He's extremely smart. With that being said, intelligence is half the battle because if intelligence was all anyone needed to succeed, Ryan Fitzpatrick would be the best quarterback in history. It takes the ability to apply that intelligence and Marvin has this when drafting and picking players from free agency. I'm not sure he's the field general type but he's more like the genius who needs to be running Human Resources.

X2

I've been listening to him on Sirius for YEARS

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[degolfisfun]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You don't like Lewis that is fine. However you must put all the circumstances on the table to be fair. Wins and losses in some other cities could be a fair measuring stick. Not the case here. Sure you can talk about 10 years this and 10 years that. I have to ask you a question while you throw these stats around.

How many of those 10 years was he given the freedom to do it his way? I have a sneaking suspicion that only over the last 2 seasons has it been Marvin and his staff getting their way. Maybe it was the Palmer situation that brought things to a head or maybe it wasn't. Whatever things have been different.

The freedom to purge his roster of me first players. Trades actually being made. The firing of Brat while still under contract. Much better draft strategy. The hiring of a young innovative OC. The hiring of a young innovative WR coach. Bringing Hue back to the staff and paying him when there really was not an open position. Changes to their scouting department. Changes and upgrades to the medical staff.

Whether many care to admit it the climate is different with this franchise

I think you are mostly right about this team not winning really big games over the last 8-10 years. That said, I don't blame Marvin for the 2005 playoff loss.

That also said, I think this is a landmark game for Gruden and Dalton too. At some point, doesn't Andy &Co. have to show it can win a big game. Or can he just go 0-8 against the Ravens/Steelers and we just shrug it off? NO! We're the better team this year ..... but we have to prove it. Marvin, Gruden, and Andy MUST figure out a way to win this game. To fight like the Patriots and 49-ers did last night. You know and I know the Steelers are counting on Andy & Co. giving in on Sunday. Complaining, belly-aching, getting down or whatever else it takes to fold. Palmer, TJ et al overcame this and now it is Andy's turn. This team needs to go in realizing it is better, play the first half just to settle in and come out in the 3rd and 4th quarters and overwhelm them with playmaking and execution. Denver, San Fran, and Seattle were all passing late in the 4Q when up by 30 points. That should be our objective ... to stretch a lead.

I don't want to see any conservative play-calling (FG kicking at 4th and 1 on the 3 yard line), or wasted 2nd half timeouts. After the game, I don't want to hear any Woulda, Shoulda, or Ifs. They have 3 hours Sunday to end this era. Just do it. Maybe 17-13 in a real snot buster.

[Rattler]

Originally Posted by momadance02

Marvin will still be here, win or lose.

^ This

Because Mikey Boy will still be steering the ship.

[OneManBand]

Originally Posted by fumetti

This is a must-win game for several reasons. Beyond the obvious goal of getting into the playoffs, it's about Lewis proving his team can win a big game against a big opponent at a critical time. It's never happened in Lewis's ten years.

Our every "big win" that puts us into a playoff spot has happened early enough in the season that that game wasn't actually what won or lost our chances. In 2005, Cincy beat Pitt and went 11-3 before losing the last two--meaning Cincy didn't actually need that win at that time to still win the division. In 2009, Cincy beat Pitt to go 5-0 in the division with six games to go in the season (after that win, Cincy didn't beat a single foe with more than 3 wins and still won the division outright). In 2011, Cincy didn't beat a single good team all year (the best was 9-7 Tennessee) and lost all three repeats against playoff teams (Balt, Pitt, Hou).

Simply put, Lewis hasn't done SQUAT above making the team average. IT. IS. TIME.

I say, if Lewis doesn't get this win at Pitt then it's absolutely the last straw--final proof that he will never, ever elevate this team to be a contender. (Actually, I wouldn't be happy unless Lewis won the next three games, yes including a playoff win.) After 10 years, it's gotta actually happen on the field and be measured in Ws not in "potential."

Actually, he will have 1 more year before "the last straw..."

[graphicguy]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You don't like Lewis that is fine. However you must put all the circumstances on the table to be fair. Wins and losses in some other cities could be a fair measuring stick. Not the case here. Sure you can talk about 10 years this and 10 years that. I have to ask you a question while you throw these stats around.

How many of those 10 years was he given the freedom to do it his way? I have a sneaking suspicion that only over the last 2 seasons has it been Marvin and his staff getting their way. Maybe it was the Palmer situation that brought things to a head or maybe it wasn't. Whatever things have been different.

The freedom to purge his roster of me first players. Trades actually being made. The firing of Brat while still under contract. Much better draft strategy. The hiring of a young innovative OC. The hiring of a young innovative WR coach. Bringing Hue back to the staff and paying him when there really was not an open position. Changes to their scouting department. Changes and upgrades to the medical staff.

Whether many care to admit it the climate is different with this franchise

Couldn't agree more! Great post!

[lqhybrid25]

Originally Posted by Xs&Os

Yes!!!!!
Run, catch, pass, tackle and kick - you ignoramous Marvin Lewis- you.

Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, and Dodge!

[THEBURG]

Marvin will coach out his contract, and farther if he so decides, he has a good record with this team, given who he has to work with, there is some smart owners out there that knows the way things are run around here, I believe Marvin would be with out a job only a short time, if he was fired, or not re-signed.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by momadance02

Marvin will still be here, win or lose.

Truth... The jets game in 2009(playoffs) was the break game.

[Shake n Blake]

There's no such thing as a make or break game (or season) for Marv.

I was a huge fan of Marv's when we hired him 10 years ago. Like others have mentioned, I do believe he's a football whiz.

Still, I'd like to see a playoff win at some point in my lifetime.

What I would like to ask the Marv brigade is this: Taking "what he has to work with" into consideration, how many years do you give this man to have some real success?

15? 20? At what point do you say, look, maybe we need to try something different?

[Ron Mexico]

Word. It's time for the guy to win his first big game.

[Ben zoo 2]

Marvin will be here as long as he wants to be, plain and simple. In almost every other nfl city he probably would have been gone by now. He does enough here to the only mans opinion who matters. He coaches, handles the press and probably a myriad other things we don't see. Has it been fair to judge him for most of his time here, given how hamstrung he was? Probably not. I like the changes over the past few years but I still question his time management, half time adjustments, etc.

[brianwestchest]

I don't think it's make or break for Lewis. But, it should be. Team are going to be coming after Zimmer for head coach next year. Before we let him slip away, we should consider demoting Marvin to defensive coordinator and promoting Zimmer to HC. Ahhh... wishful thinking.

The next two games are essentially playoff games. I agree with the original poster, I won't be happy until we win at least one playoff game (which Marvin has never done). Let's see this team step up when it's win or go home.

[THEBURG]

Originally Posted by Ben zoo 2

Marvin will be here as long as he wants to be, plain and simple. In almost every other nfl city he probably would have been gone by now. He does enough here to the only mans opinion who matters. He coaches, handles the press and probably a myriad other things we don't see. Has it been fair to judge him for most of his time here, given how hamstrung he was? Probably not. I like the changes over the past few years but I still question his time management, half time adjustments, etc.

In every other N.F.L. city he would probably have better working conditions, so we really don't know what kind of winning % he would have, with the owner he has, he hasn't had a bad career.

[Who-Dey Girl]

While at times, I have also given Marvin a little of a pass because of the “what had to work with argument”. However, the time has come. As many pointed out, Marv has had much more to work with in recent years and there is no longer an excuse. I honestly believe that we are the better team and that we should win this game. If we don’t I know Lewis will still be coach but….baring some unforeseeable anomaly…it will be the last straw for me.

[eliminate08]

Originally Posted by fumetti

This is a must-win game for several reasons. Beyond the obvious goal of getting into the playoffs, it's about Lewis proving his team can win a big game against a big opponent at a critical time. It's never happened in Lewis's ten years.

Our every "big win" that puts us into a playoff spot has happened early enough in the season that that game wasn't actually what won or lost our chances. In 2005, Cincy beat Pitt and went 11-3 before losing the last two--meaning Cincy didn't actually need that win at that time to still win the division. In 2009, Cincy beat Pitt to go 5-0 in the division with six games to go in the season (after that win, Cincy didn't beat a single foe with more than 3 wins and still won the division outright). In 2011, Cincy didn't beat a single good team all year (the best was 9-7 Tennessee) and lost all three repeats against playoff teams (Balt, Pitt, Hou).

Simply put, Lewis hasn't done SQUAT above making the team average. IT. IS. TIME.

I say, if Lewis doesn't get this win at Pitt then it's absolutely the last straw--final proof that he will never, ever elevate this team to be a contender. (Actually, I wouldn't be happy unless Lewis won the next three games, yes including a playoff win.) After 10 years, it's gotta actually happen on the field and be measured in Ws not in "potential."

I have to agree, it is time to win a game we need to win in December that gets that
monkey off of these young guys backs. We have the players to beat the Steelers and i
think our players are more hungry than theirs are.

We will see, but if Marv does not get this win i want another HC, even if it won't happen.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You don't like Lewis that is fine. However you must put all the circumstances on the table to be fair. Wins and losses in some other cities could be a fair measuring stick. Not the case here. Sure you can talk about 10 years this and 10 years that. I have to ask you a question while you throw these stats around.

How many of those 10 years was he given the freedom to do it his way? I have a sneaking suspicion that only over the last 2 seasons has it been Marvin and his staff getting their way. Maybe it was the Palmer situation that brought things to a head or maybe it wasn't. Whatever things have been different.

The freedom to purge his roster of me first players. Trades actually being made. The firing of Brat while still under contract. Much better draft strategy. The hiring of a young innovative OC. The hiring of a young innovative WR coach. Bringing Hue back to the staff and paying him when there really was not an open position. Changes to their scouting department. Changes and upgrades to the medical staff.

Whether many care to admit it the climate is different with this franchise

Therefore, the rest of this season is Marvin's for the taking. Think he can do it?

[Ben zoo 2]

Originally Posted by THEBURG

In every other N.F.L. city he would probably have better working conditions, so we really don't know what kind of winning % he would have, with the owner he has, he hasn't had a bad career.

I agree with that. Hence my comment about it probably not being fair to judge him given how hamstrung he is/was.

Forgot to add he doesn't break the bank as far as coaches salaries.

[EyeOfTheTiger]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You don't like Lewis that is fine. However you must put all the circumstances on the table to be fair. Wins and losses in some other cities could be a fair measuring stick. Not the case here. Sure you can talk about 10 years this and 10 years that. I have to ask you a question while you throw these stats around.

How many of those 10 years was he given the freedom to do it his way? I have a sneaking suspicion that only over the last 2 seasons has it been Marvin and his staff getting their way. Maybe it was the Palmer situation that brought things to a head or maybe it wasn't. Whatever things have been different.

The freedom to purge his roster of me first players. Trades actually being made. The firing of Brat while still under contract. Much better draft strategy. The hiring of a young innovative OC. The hiring of a young innovative WR coach. Bringing Hue back to the staff and paying him when there really was not an open position. Changes to their scouting department. Changes and upgrades to the medical staff.

Whether many care to admit it the climate is different with this franchise

Do you ever NOT apologize for the Bengals? you will defend Lewis by blaming Brown's meddling but then defend the Bengals FO as well?

[EyeOfTheTiger]

Originally Posted by eliminate08

I have to agree, it is time to win a game we need to win in December that gets that
monkey off of these young guys backs. We have the players to beat the Steelers and i
think our players are more hungry than theirs are.

We will see, but if Marv does not get this win i want another HC, even if it won't happen.

I want to see how motivated, focused, and prepared our guys who had 10 days to prepare. Steelers are injured and reeling from losses. If they beat us, expect there to be a huge outcry. You think Bengals fans are pessimistic? Hoo boy! If we lose, this thing is going to get ugly.

[eliminate08]

Originally Posted by EyeOfTheTiger

I want to see how motivated, focused, and prepared our guys who had 10 days to prepare. Steelers are injured and reeling from losses. If they beat us, expect there to be a huge outcry. You think Bengals fans are pessimistic? Hoo boy! If we lose, this thing is going to get ugly.

I think you are right.

[20YearsAndStillBelieving]

How nice it is that the Bengals have 3 Coordinators and 1 Assistant who are all head coaching candidates. Makes me think Marvin Lewis must carry a lot of respect in the biz. It seems like Marvin is well aware that he has come up short, and it seems to me that he is determined to finish the job he started by not only pulling this organization out of the pits of NFLoser-ville 10 years ago, but to becoming an annual playoff contender this year. . .Super Bowl, Baby!

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by Brunz

I agree 100% and mentioned in another thread that if he can't get us back to the playoffs this year he needs to be gone. I got bashed to say the least.

One more time for good measure.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

You don't like Lewis that is fine. However you must put all the circumstances on the table to be fair. Wins and losses in some other cities could be a fair measuring stick. Not the case here. Sure you can talk about 10 years this and 10 years that. I have to ask you a question while you throw these stats around.

How many of those 10 years was he given the freedom to do it his way? I have a sneaking suspicion that only over the last 2 seasons has it been Marvin and his staff getting their way. Maybe it was the Palmer situation that brought things to a head or maybe it wasn't. Whatever things have been different.

The freedom to purge his roster of me first players. Trades actually being made. The firing of Brat while still under contract. Much better draft strategy. The hiring of a young innovative OC. The hiring of a young innovative WR coach. Bringing Hue back to the staff and paying him when there really was not an open position. Changes to their scouting department. Changes and upgrades to the medical staff.

Whether many care to admit it the climate is different with this franchise