How each team was assembled

[downtown273]

thought you guys might think this was interesting:

http://www.profootballrosters.com/20...embled-charts/

[bengalfan74]

Nice, Thanks for posting

[Ron Mexico]

There are only 9 players on the roster from before 2009....yeesh!

[downtown273]

Originally Posted by Ron Mexico

There are only 9 players on the roster from before 2009....yeesh!

so I had to check.... steelers have 17 and ravens 10 before 2009...and ravens top 4 defenders were drafted before 2006 ( reed '02, suggs '03 and lewis '96?!? wow)

[Ron Mexico]

Originally Posted by downtown273

so I had to check.... steelers have 17 and ravens 10 before 2009...and ravens top 4 defenders were drafted before 2006 ( reed '02, suggs '03 and lewis '96?!? wow)

It just seems like a really low number to me. Even 17 for the Steelers seems low. That's a high turnover rate....

[Brunz]

Originally Posted by bengalfan74

Nice, Thanks for posting

I think they wanted to clean house. Lol

[THE PISTONS]

Notice how we only have 4 players drafted by us before 2007. Rookie contracts are 5 or 6 years. It's a myth to state that we retain our own free agents. We retain some. We let others go. It's like that for most teams.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Notice how we only have 4 players drafted by us before 2007. Rookie contracts are 5 or 6 years. It's a myth to state that we retain our own free agents. We retain some. We let others go. It's like that for most teams.

you cant keep them alll... And there were alot not worth keeping or that were hurt.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Notice how we only have 4 players drafted by us before 2007. Rookie contracts are 5 or 6 years. It's a myth to state that we retain our own free agents. We retain some. We let others go. It's like that for most teams.

This is what many people fail to realize. They claim that the Bengals are the only team that doesn't re-sign their top free agents, yet every year the market is full of top free agents leaving other teams.

[Au165]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Notice how we only have 4 players drafted by us before 2007. Rookie contracts are 5 or 6 years. It's a myth to state that we retain our own free agents. We retain some. We let others go. It's like that for most teams.

.....What other players from pre 07 were worth keeping. I know there were a few, but honestly the Bengals weren't some dynasty that needed held together.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

This is what many people fail to realize. They claim that the Bengals are the only team that doesn't re-sign their top free agents, yet every year the market is full of top free agents leaving other teams.

For most, it's because they can't afford them. Not because they refuse to try. The JJoe situation was unforgivable.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by whodey21

For most, it's because they can't afford them. Not because they refuse to try. The JJoe situation was unforgivable.

Jesus I don't want to open this can of worms again, but none of us know if Joseph would have stayed here for any amount of money. His comments since leaving prove that he wanted out of here.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Jesus I don't want to open this can of worms again, but none of us know if Joseph would have stayed here for any amount of money. His comments since leaving prove that he wanted out of here.

You don't have to call me Jesus.

This is just the most well-known case of letting someone go when we had every reason to keep them. Other franchises only let people go when they aren't producing or can't afford them. Until we win a Super Bowl while not spending up to the cap, all spending criticisms about our lack of spending are valid.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by whodey21

You don't have to call me Jesus.

This is just the most well-known case of letting someone go when we had every reason to keep them. Other franchises only let people go when they aren't producing or can't afford them. Until we win a Super Bowl while not spending up to the cap, all spending criticisms about our lack of spending are valid.

The criticism are not valid if the player would not have signed here anyway. If Joseph, like Palmer, wanted out of here we could not have re-signed him for any reasonable amount of money.

And lot's of good players who are still productive leave teams who could afford to re-sign them. It happens all the time.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by downtown273

thought you guys might think this was interesting:

http://www.profootballrosters.com/20...embled-charts/

Let me take a Stab at this

53 Ladies had sex with 53 Guys (x32)

This resulted in Babys...

these babys were forced to play football to satisfly their parents retire in 25 years plan...

They succeeded to make it to the NFL...

And now they play for their respective teams.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

The criticism are not valid if the player would not have signed here anyway. If Joseph, like Palmer, wanted out of here we could not have re-signed him for any reasonable amount of money.

And lot's of good players who are still productive leave teams who could afford to re-sign them. It happens all the time.

The only "what-if" scenarios that aren't valid are the ones that we tried and failed (there aren't many). And the only "unreasonable amount" is an amount that would have brought us above the cap. Overpaying for players is only a worry for teams near the cap. That has never included us.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by whodey21

The only "what-if" scenarios that aren't valid are the ones that we tried and failed (there aren't many). And the only "unreasonable amount" is an amount that would have brought us above the cap. Overpaying for players is only a worry for teams near the cap. That has never included us.

Except the year Joseph left paying him more would have cut into the money we had to save for palmer so he couldnt force us to cut him.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by whodey21

Overpaying for players is only a worry for teams near the cap. That has never included us.

Overpaying is never a good idea. It can hurt a team for years down the road.

But again we don't know if Joseph would have signed here for any amount of money. His comments after he left lead me to believe that he never wanted to stay here and was just using the Bengals to get a better deal from someone else.

Anyone who claims they know the truth is just flat out lying.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

Except the year Joseph left paying him more would have cut into the money we had to save for palmer so he couldnt force us to cut him.

There was no cap that year because of the lockout, just a recommended spending amount. Carson's threat was moot. Anyway, (as I have already stated) the JJoe case is just the highest profile example of us managing our personnel poorly. Most of us agreed that it was handled poorly. I brought it up because it is a microcosm of how this franchise was run. It appears to have gotten better, but I won't be convinced until we win some games that actually matter.

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Overpaying is never a good idea. It can hurt a team for years down the road.

But again we don't know if Joseph would have signed here for any amount of money. His comments after he left lead me to believe that he never wanted to stay here and was just using the Bengals to get a better deal from someone else.

Anyone who claims they know the truth is just flat out lying.

Not with a frontloaded contract, it can't. And you're looking at this with the wrong assumptions. I hope you aren't a lawyer or statistician. The base assumption is "He will stay if we pay more", until it is proven otherwise. Since it's too late to prove the opposite, we have to work off of that base assumption. Innocent until proven guilty, true until proven false.

You're also focusing way too much on this one example. There are plenty of others. For the third time this thread, this is just the highest profile.

Now, back to what I wanted to post in the first place before I got distracted:

Bengals! -emble!

[gocincy]

Originally Posted by downtown273

so I had to check.... steelers have 17 and ravens 10 before 2009...and ravens top 4 defenders were drafted before 2006 ( reed '02, suggs '03 and lewis '96?!? wow)

So the major up side to this that we seem to continue to overlook here is ....we are a playoff team with a bunch of REALLY YOUNG guys. We may get to enjoy this group for several more years to come.

Looks pretty good from where I'm sitting.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by whodey21

The base assumption is "He will stay if we pay more", until it is proven otherwise. Since it's too late to prove the opposite, we have to work off of that base assumption. Innocent until proven guilty, true until proven false.

Joseph's comments indicate that he would not have wanted to stay here for any price. Plus I don't know how you feel that this is the "base assumption" considering that at the exact same time our QB was willing to walk away from $50 million just to get out of here.

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Joseph's comments indicate that he would not have wanted to stay here for any price. Plus I don't know how you feel that this is the "base assumption" considering that at the exact same time our QB was willing to walk away from $50 million just to get out of here.

Probably because:
1) The losses weren't being blamed on Joseph in a very public way
2) Trash wasn't being piled on his lawn
3) Joseph wasn't booed in his own stadium
4) Joseph wasn't having personal problems with his coordinator & teammates
5) He said it was a tough decision to make.

I tend to pick up on subtle differences like that. Based on your logic, why is any free agent here? We aren't paying anyone $50,000,000 to stay here.

(for the 4th time) You are really hung up on a discussion that has been had before. Look at the bigger picture.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by whodey21

There was no cap that year because of the lockout, just a recommended spending amount. Carson's threat was moot. Anyway, (as I have already stated) the JJoe case is just the highest profile example of us managing our personnel poorly. Most of us agreed that it was handled poorly. I brought it up because it is a microcosm of how this franchise was run. It appears to have gotten better, but I won't be convinced until we win some games that actually matter.



Not with a frontloaded contract, it can't. And you're looking at this with the wrong assumptions. I hope you aren't a lawyer or statistician. The base assumption is "He will stay if we pay more", until it is proven otherwise. Since it's too late to prove the opposite, we have to work off of that base assumption. Innocent until proven guilty, true until proven false.

You're also focusing way too much on this one example. There are plenty of others. For the third time this thread, this is just the highest profile.

Now, back to what I wanted to post in the first place before I got distracted:

Bengals! -emble!

JJoe said he left for the Texans because of the # of probowlers there and free Gatoraid..

Nothing to do with Contract Dollar amounts

[whodey21]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

JJoe said he left for the Texans because of the # of probowlers there and free Gatoraid..

Nothing to do with Contract Dollar amounts

Links or it didn't happen. He mentioned some key differences between the franchises, but never said that was why he left. You both are trying to twist the past to make it seem like we couldn't have kept him under any circumstances, AND you are both missing the point.

Even if he did leave because of the way the franchise is run, doesn't that indicate a problem inherent in our system? Something else that sets us apart in a highly negative way that needs to be fixed?

To recap this post, you are arguing the wrong thing, your facts are wrong, and even if you were right it proves my original point better than anything I could have said.

By the way, can you spot the irony here?

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Joseph's comments indicate that he would not have wanted to stay here for any price.

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

JJoe said he left for the Texans because of the # of probowlers there and free Gatoraid..

Nothing to do with Contract Dollar amounts

Originally Posted by fredtoast

Anyone who claims they know the truth is just flat out lying.

[fredtoast]

Originally Posted by whodey21

To recap this post, you are arguing the wrong thing, your facts are wrong, and even if you were right it proves my original point better than anything I could have said.

Your point was that we did not even try to re-sign Joseph. That is the biggest lie in this thread.

All I am doing is pointing out the comments that Joseph made after signing with the Texans. None of my facts are wrong. So since I am right how does that prove your point that we did not even try to re-sign Joseph?