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Old 12-18-2012, 10:15 PM
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Default Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

I spent some time watching Steelers games when they weren't on the same time as the Bengals.

One thing I noticed is the mismatch of blitzing a DB on Ben (safety, corner)From the get go it is a size miss match and unless it is a direct shot, which is not high %. When that happens you play into the Steelers game plan

I can't help but think back to the Tampa 2 during theor SB run, which relied on a dominant front and limiting down field opportunities and keeping everything in front of you that the Bengals can do this.

The reality is there. We are healthy on the D front, Steelers are banged up and the DB's are playing smart football

One thing is true. To beat the cover 2 is running. What do the MB experts think?
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

You have to blitz the steelers you can't let Ben have all day. However the DEs need to keep contained and if we get to him we gotta make sure we bring him down
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

As of now - no. Just have someone shadow Ben. The front four are doing a tremendous job penetrating and controlling the line by themselves. But it would not hurt to mix it up just a little.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

Blitzing someone like Ben Roethlisberger is not like scheming against, say, Carson Palmer. Ben might be the most mobile "traditional" quarterback in the league right now. Guys like Colin Kaepernick are in a whole 'nother category. To bring Ben down, a defense has to give him nowhere to escape. Time and time again, we see a front four close in on Ben and he squirts right between them all and runs for ten yards straight up the middle of the field. The way to guard against this is to park a linebacker right there as Ben drops back to pass and, after the defensive linemen collapse the pocket, the linebacker has to stay in front of Ben while closing in on him from the front. This prevents him from passing and he has nowhere to run.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

You and interceptor have hit hit it right on the head.

Shadow Ben and someone is open, you don't, he will burn you.

Hit him like the beeotch he is you draw a flag
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

I watched a replay of that game two weeks ago when the Chargers beat the Steelers and San Diego did have a fair amount of success blitzing their safeties. Weddle and Lynch both put a couple good hits on Ben in the first half.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

Not blitzing would be so foolish.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

Set up an ambush...let him run thru a disguised opening and then slam him on that limp shoulder as the ball carrier. You better believe the dirty stealer would do it unto us.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

there are 2 good ways to blitz big jen. the first is to use lbers only. the ends must keep contain as others have stated, but the dt'd also need to stay in the rush lanes. we all know how geno has what at times looks like super human strength and can push his man back to the qb before he can set his feet. normally this is a good thing, but with guys like jen and romo they just slip right past him.

the other is to use a db blitz with a lber coming in on a delay. let the lineman waste his time picking up the smaller db who is less likely to bring jen down leaving the lber (hopefully burfict would love to see him rip jens head off) a clean shot at him. again though the front 4 must keep contain on both the edges and up the middle.

no matter how you do it though you will most likely not bring jen down with an arm tackle. our defensive coaches need to drill it into our guys heads that it is absolutely essential to wrap jen up like a christmas present.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

The Steelers o-line hold their blocks better than most teams as they know Ben holds the ball longer than most QB's. Therefore, I'm a fan of the delayed blitz moreso than against any other team. Bring that 5th guy a little later than usual and they can come in free to hit Ben. The big mistake that a lot of blitzers make is they come full bore and Ben sidesteps. The blitzer needs to pull up a little and just grab hold while the rest of the D-line takes him down with him.

Ben is great at sidestepping and making something out of nothing. He becomes quite average when he has someone draped on him and stays in the pocket.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

Yeah it makes sense, BUT I prefer a more complex scheme. Not just guys stunting the line but actually moving to different spots. Its hard to pinpoint assignments when they're so many moving parts on the other side.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

I think we blitz in the first half

I don't know if you notice but our D-line usually don't get alot of pressure/sacks in the first half. We are a d-line that wears on an o-line and they can't block us for 4 quarters.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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Originally Posted by EatonFan View Post
The Steelers o-line hold their blocks better than most teams as they know Ben holds the ball longer than most QB's. Therefore, I'm a fan of the delayed blitz moreso than against any other team. Bring that 5th guy a little later than usual and they can come in free to hit Ben. The big mistake that a lot of blitzers make is they come full bore and Ben sidesteps. The blitzer needs to pull up a little and just grab hold while the rest of the D-line takes him down with him.

Ben is great at sidestepping and making something out of nothing. He becomes quite average when he has someone draped on him and stays in the pocket.
I agree that we need to get to Ben and grab him, but I disagree about the delayed blitz because I think that we need to get their offensive line sliding out of their natural positions to pick up the blitzers and then let Atkins and Peko overpower blockers who are trying to slide to block them and don't have good position (that's mostly for Atkins, who can also use his speed).

And we can't lung or dive because Ben usually brings the ball down and dodges them or shakes them off because he's so big, and then just scrambles free to make a throw.

We also need to keep a safety deep over Wallace, especially if Ben starts scrambling.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

contain Ben in the pocket. He seems to play better moving when the pocket breaks down. Blitz with the element of surprise after he is lulled or complacent to the pocket. I think he actually feels crowded and insecure in a pocket and makes mental mistakes from observance. Then again, if the Dline is having a field day dominating their Oline, just shadow him. Honestly though, I think the Bengals can win just playing to their strengths on defense. The offense will have to scheme and spread the ball around to open up some space for AJ and the running game. I think this game is on Gruden and the offense to make it one sided.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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Originally Posted by EatonFan View Post
The Steelers o-line hold their blocks better than most teams as they know Ben holds the ball longer than most QB's. Therefore, I'm a fan of the delayed blitz moreso than against any other team. Bring that 5th guy a little later than usual and they can come in free to hit Ben. The big mistake that a lot of blitzers make is they come full bore and Ben sidesteps. The blitzer needs to pull up a little and just grab hold while the rest of the D-line takes him down with him.

Ben is great at sidestepping and making something out of nothing. He becomes quite average when he has someone draped on him and stays in the pocket.
And that is the nature of my thread. Safeties come quick and whiff. we have seen it before. The SD game is an anomaly as far as a benchmark.

we rely on the front four and play cover 2. Not sexy and game shattering at the outset but the only way to beat a cover 2 is to run with success and the Bengals can shut that down.

As an aside. Staying in the pocket and having someone draped on him is something that over a game that happen consistantly. He shakes a blitz off and we are short a safety and LB and the D is in trouble.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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Originally Posted by bradfritz21 View Post
I agree that we need to get to Ben and grab him, but I disagree about the delayed blitz because I think that we need to get their offensive line sliding out of their natural positions to pick up the blitzers and then let Atkins and Peko overpower blockers who are trying to slide to block them and don't have good position (that's mostly for Atkins, who can also use his speed).

And we can't lung or dive because Ben usually brings the ball down and dodges them or shakes them off because he's so big, and then just scrambles free to make a throw.

We also need to keep a safety deep over Wallace, especially if Ben starts scrambling.
You have just described the essence of the cover 2
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

I can't believe I am going to say this because I hate a delayed blitz but I think that is what you gotta do to him. But use a LB because like OP said DB's bounce off of him. Let the front four flush him and the blitzer finish him off. If he reads blitz on the snap he is good at slipping it as well as normal dline pressure. But he does make some mistakes when he thinks he is in the clear.

Just went to the mall here in Orlando to try and find some Bengals Christmas presents. Only Stoolers propoganda to be found. So I came home and hit up nflshop.com and most items are guaranteed to get to you by Christmas eve if you order them by tomorrow at midnight at standard shipping and if you wait until thurs or fri you can still upgrade shipping. But order now at standard shipping is your best bet and it is free for orders over $50. My dad, grandpa, mom, and wife all will be opening up some new Bengal gear to rock while watching the HUGE game this week.

Oh yeah while at the mall a sports store worker asked if he could help me. At a glance I could see they only had the FL teams, Stoolers, and Cowboys gear. I said "I'll buy every Bengal shirt and sweater you have." A Stooler fan shopping turned around and laughed. So i found the only Bengal thing they had, an AD14 jersey ahd told him he'd better buy this for after the game on Sunday.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
I watched a replay of that game two weeks ago when the Chargers beat the Steelers and San Diego did have a fair amount of success blitzing their safeties. Weddle and Lynch both put a couple good hits on Ben in the first half.
^This.

The Bengals shouldn't waste their LBs on blitzes, as they are needed in coverage on short routes to TEs and RBs. I wouldn't mind blitzing Reggie or Crocker a time or two (mays?), but the LB crew we currently have just isn't very adept at pass rushing. The key is change the rush after showing a different formation. By this, I mean fake a blitz with a safety and drop him. Line him up in the slot and rush him, but don't show your hand before the snap. Making Ben think is part of the strategy to beating him. I sincerely hope one of our DBs makes an aggressive play early for a pick 6. Ditto a DT or DE with a strip sack. Those are the kind of plays that will win this game for the Bengals.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

As long as our DEs keep containment, we will get pressure up the middle from Geno and that will bother Ben and force mistakes and sacks.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike View Post
I spent some time watching Steelers games when they weren't on the same time as the Bengals.

One thing I noticed is the mismatch of blitzing a DB on Ben (safety, corner)From the get go it is a size miss match and unless it is a direct shot, which is not high %. When that happens you play into the Steelers game plan

I can't help but think back to the Tampa 2 during theor SB run, which relied on a dominant front and limiting down field opportunities and keeping everything in front of you that the Bengals can do this.

The reality is there. We are healthy on the D front, Steelers are banged up and the DB's are playing smart football

One thing is true. To beat the cover 2 is running. What do the MB experts think?
It makes sense to blitz Ben in the first quarter until he collapses from rib pain.

I don't advocate injuring anybody, but if we can make him think more about his ribs than our secondary we stand a much better chance of winning. (I don't believe Ben should be on the field just yet, but if they're going to put him out there with a vulnerability then remind him of it.)

Dallas sure gave him a hit or two. When he got up he looked in pain. For all we know Ben felt that heavily late in the game, and may be why his interception didn't have enough zip on it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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Originally Posted by EatonFan View Post
The Steelers o-line hold their blocks better than most teams as they know Ben holds the ball longer than most QB's. Therefore, I'm a fan of the delayed blitz moreso than against any other team. Bring that 5th guy a little later than usual and they can come in free to hit Ben. The big mistake that a lot of blitzers make is they come full bore and Ben sidesteps. The blitzer needs to pull up a little and just grab hold while the rest of the D-line takes him down with him.

Ben is great at sidestepping and making something out of nothing. He becomes quite average when he has someone draped on him and stays in the pocket.
The Redskins did something like this in the 80s. They played a 4-3 and had LBs go into zone coverage and if the QB was still holding the ball after 3 seconds they start charging towards him. Someone mentioned in another thread that when Zimmer blitzes, the telltale sign is the CBs giving a 10-yard cushion, meaning the WRs can run a 5-yard button, hook or slant. The CBs should play closer, perhaps 5 yards. The QB sees the blitz coming and is looking for that quick out. But the CBs will be closer to the intended target, making it easier to defend a pass coming their way instead of waiting for a catch-and-tackle.

I know the Steelers are going to give Dalton multiple looks and come at him with every type of blitz, including the kitchen sink.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

Id be creative with the blitzes. I wouldnt risk bltizing any DB's because Ben would just shake them off, but maybe a linebacker or two occasionally. The front 4 should do a good job of moving Ben around in the pocket and keeping him uncomfortable. DeCastro is going to get used by Geno all day. I watched him against Dallas, and he missed a ton of assignments, and was often late to pull or pick up a blitzer.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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Originally Posted by EatonFan View Post
The Steelers o-line hold their blocks better than most teams as they know Ben holds the ball longer than most QB's. Therefore, I'm a fan of the delayed blitz moreso than against any other team. Bring that 5th guy a little later than usual and they can come in free to hit Ben. (((The big mistake that a lot of blitzers make is they come full bore and Ben sidesteps))). The blitzer needs to pull up a little and just grab hold while the rest of the D-line takes him down with him.

Ben is great at sidestepping and making something out of nothing. He becomes quite average when he has someone draped on him and stays in the pocket.
If you are into martial arts, in Aikido, we are taught that the simplest and subtlest move of just turning at the waist can completely nullify an attack. Ben is the master of things like this. He uses the defenders aggression against them and they go harmlessly flying out of the way. Simple things like taking a step to the left, right, up, or just stopping a run suddenly. These aren't teachable - its all instinct.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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If you are into martial arts, in Aikido, we are taught that the simplest and subtlest move of just turning at the waist can completely nullify an attack. Ben is the master of things like this. He uses the defenders aggression against them and they go harmlessly flying out of the way. Simple things like taking a step to the left, right, up, or just stopping a run suddenly. These aren't teachable - its all instinct.
If they aren't teachable how can they be taught in Akido?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Does it make sense to blitz the Steelers

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If they aren't teachable how can they be taught in Akido?
I guess a better way of putting it is Roethlisberger does something intuitively that other people have o learn. Seeing as how those little things he does made them Super Bowl winners - maybe QBs need training in those areas.
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