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  #101  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
Lol. Dalton haters.

I'm not sure you read all of these posts but outside a couple of people most have had a rational, educated conversation about the good and bad of our young QB.

I take it you think that Dalton is HOF ready now though?

He has nothing else to work on to get better?

He is Steeler, Raven and playoff ready?

He is absolved from all blame in the offenses recent struggles?

Many people, some "experts", see Dalton making small mistakes and its very much OK to have a conversation about it.

Understand he is young and its part of his development.

We also want to get to the playoffs again and will need him to play like he did earlier in the year.

All the excuses you make for him might be valid.

Find a way and get it done, now, cause you never know what next year will bring.
Dalton has flaws. Most QB's do. Especially when they are only in year two.

The thing that gets me, is that it's always the same people pointing out Dalton's flaws, and these people never say anything good about him.

That's why I say Dalton "haters". We've had 11 sacks and 14 drops in the last 2 games, so why don't we talk about #2 WR instead of focusing in on the QB all the time?

Opponents are bracketing coverage on AJ Green, and our #2 has been a non-factor pretty much all season.

We need to get Andy some easy completions early in the game so he can find a rhythm. When was the last time we saw a well executed screen pass?

I don't question Andy much, because he's shown repeatedly that he can get it done at the NFL level. I question Jay and I question every receiver outside of AJ Green.

Our game plans have been very vanilla for several weeks now, and M.Jones, Tate and Whalen all **** (sorry Truck). It says something when we start Binns for 5 games THEN find out he stinks and wind up releasing him.
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From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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  #102  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
A better question would be.....who really cares what Cosell thinks?
I care, is that alright with you?
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  #103  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:59 PM
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bengals Re: Cosell on Dalton

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I care, is that alright with you?
I am not shocked.
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  #104  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

Just with the eye test, no stats involved id say Dalton has gotten better. This years Dalton instead of automatically throwing the ball away holds the ball a lil longer before he gives up. I loved and hated that about Andy last year. I wish hed step up in the pocket more but its hard when your o line doesnt give you that lane. Id be sayin this even if his stats were worse....To me stats are only a product of the situation. I can drop 5 points tuesday, but play a smarter better game the next day that nets me 3 points, but most ppl will say my 5 point game was better.

Just like with Dunlap. His sack # arent ******** but I dare you to tell me hes trash......Guy causes trouble
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  #105  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
I am not shocked.
Nothing wrong with getting an opinion outside of "The Jungle Board."
OSUfan you should try it.
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  #106  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

I have to agree with Cosell. Jaws said Dalton looks good on paper, but when he watches him in the film room - he leaves points on the board. And we all see that routinely with him, and lately.

There are sections of the game where Dalton transforms into someone else (unstoppable). He makes quick decisions, and rifles the ball with accuracy. Sometimes our protection breaks down too fast. Other times it's Dalton's fault (holding the ball too long, making poor throws, taking sacks).

Penalties and sacks are absolutely drive killers, and we seemed to have either a sack or penalty every set of downs last game. Play calling doesn't help. You have ben jarvis green ellis with like a 6.5 YPC and you go sets of downs without giving him the ball?

If Sanu didn't get hurt, I think we would have 6 straight right now and nobody would be talking about any offensive woes.

Last edited by reuben.ahmed; 12-21-2012 at 07:59 PM.
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  #107  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:00 PM
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bengals Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Nothing wrong with getting an opinion outside of "The Jungle Board."
OSUfan you should try it.
I don't need someone else to give me my opinion.
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  #108  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
Dalton has flaws. Most QB's do. Especially when they are only in year two.

The thing that gets me, is that it's always the same people pointing out Dalton's flaws, and these people never say anything good about him.

That's why I say Dalton "haters". We've had 11 sacks and 14 drops in the last 2 games, so why don't we talk about #2 WR instead of focusing in on the QB all the time?

Opponents are bracketing coverage on AJ Green, and our #2 has been a non-factor pretty much all season.

We need to get Andy some easy completions early in the game so he can find a rhythm. When was the last time we saw a well executed screen pass?

I don't question Andy much, because he's shown repeatedly that he can get it done at the NFL level. I question Jay and I question every receiver outside of AJ Green.

Our game plans have been very vanilla for several weeks now, and M.Jones, Tate and Whalen all **** (sorry Truck). It says something when we start Binns for 5 games THEN find out he stinks and wind up releasing him.
Agree 100,000 % Shake !

Andy's confidence in every aspect of our offense has been shattered these past two weeks ! It started with the dropsies we developed in the Dallas game and continued with the look-out blocks in the Philly game.

Sure Andy has made young QB type mistakes, not targeting wide open receivers, overthrowing receivers, feeling pressure that isn't there and on and on. But the rest of our offense hasn't been doing our 2nd year QB any favors.

And yes we need very badly to build Andy's confidence as quickly as possible in the Steelers game. We've got to have Hawk and Jones as well as Gresh step up and catch the damn ball and build his confidence. We've got to not shoot ourselves in the foot with dumb penalties. We've got to stretch the field with Jones and AJ, unlike the last game and so on.

He's a 2nd year QB for crying out loud !
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  #109  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
I don't need someone else to give me my opinion.
Nor do I. I listen and take opinions into consideration. Yes, some of them I form into my own opinion if there good. I'm not a sheep.
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  #110  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by Au165 View Post
I remember when everyone used to say it took a few years before you should even start a QB you drafted, but rather let them sit and learn. Only the elite started and they normally got their heads beat in. Now we start a second round pick year 1 and he plays himself into the top half of QBs in the NFL by year 2 and we are upset. Would we be this upset if he had just sat for two years and came in year 3? The guy has had a career so far statistically that is better than almost any QB in history up to this point in his career (Their first 2 years). Many QB's didn't become "elite" until years 3 and 4, but since we have seen him from Day 1 and he was so good to start we have unrealistic expectations.
This.
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  #111  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

Nothing Cosell said was inaccurate. One can complain that he didn't note any positives in Andy's game, as he himself has done before. But anyone who watches Dalton objectively shouldn't disagree with the criticisms he outlined. Heck, Gruden himself has said the same things.
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  #112  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

One thing I've noticed about Dalton that I haven't brought up because it just gives people who dislike Dalton more ammo:

He's been pretty bad in December, both last year and this year. I'm not sure if he's had trouble adjusting to a longer schedule or what, but the numbers tell the story.

Sept-Nov: 240 yards/game, 1.8 tds/game, 61.7% completions, 7.16 ypa, 88 rating

December: 172 yards/game, 1.0 tds/games, 57% completions, 5.80 ypa, 77 rating

Perhaps his arm strength is waning as the season goes on?

The low ypa shows that he's not hitting many deep throws in December.
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From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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  #113  
Old 12-21-2012, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
Dalton has flaws. Most QB's do. Especially when they are only in year two.

The thing that gets me, is that it's always the same people pointing out Dalton's flaws, and these people never say anything good about him.

That's why I say Dalton "haters". We've had 11 sacks and 14 drops in the last 2 games, so why don't we talk about #2 WR instead of focusing in on the QB all the time?

Opponents are bracketing coverage on AJ Green, and our #2 has been a non-factor pretty much all season.

We need to get Andy some easy completions early in the game so he can find a rhythm. When was the last time we saw a well executed screen pass?

I don't question Andy much, because he's shown repeatedly that he can get it done at the NFL level. I question Jay and I question every receiver outside of AJ Green.

Our game plans have been very vanilla for several weeks now, and M.Jones, Tate and Whalen all **** (sorry Truck). It says something when we start Binns for 5 games THEN find out he stinks and wind up releasing him.
Shake I always call it like I see it. I gave him props in the middle of the season when he was tearing it up, but lately he seems to be struggling. He does leave points on the field, and is at times very indecisive in the pocket. An indecisive QB with mediocre arm strength leads to many punts and bad throws. I hope he turns it around but he was pretty bad last thursday.

Instead of getting on folks that hate on his game won't you at least acknowledge that he has been very inconsistent. If you watch the coach cam it is clear that he makes some very idiotic decisions and throws it to the guys that are covered instead of the guys that are open.
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  #114  
Old 12-21-2012, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by CornerBlitz View Post
Shake I always call it like I see it. I gave him props in the middle of the season when he was tearing it up, but lately he seems to be struggling. He does leave points on the field, and is at times very indecisive in the pocket. An indecisive QB with mediocre arm strength leads to many punts and bad throws. I hope he turns it around but he was pretty bad last thursday.

Instead of getting on folks that hate on his game won't you at least acknowledge that he has been very inconsistent. If you watch the coach cam it is clear that he makes some very idiotic decisions and throws it to the guys that are covered instead of the guys that are open.
His last 3 games have been pretty bad. That said, I realize that not all of it can be pinned on him. Losing Sanu hurt big time. He's dealing with a center rotation that, at best, is a slight distraction for him. We've faced some teams with speed rushers and our line hasn't handled it well.

Dalton needs to step up, but the team also needs to help Dalton. It was ridiculous that we didn't sign a vet receiver at some point. Sanu/Jones weren't ready and Binns/Tate were/are garbage. Give 2005 CP9 Binns/Tate and Hawkins instead of Housh and Henry and I bet his performance would've suffered too.

Basically, I defend Dalton because I saw this coming when we failed to properly address WR in the offseason. The Bengals' brass should've learned their lesson when they drafted Simpson/Caldwell. Those mid-round receiver usually need time to develop (if they develop at all). We left Dalton (and Green) hanging when we didn't bring in a vet.
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From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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  #115  
Old 12-21-2012, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

Yes Dalton has left some plays on the field and has some accuracy issues in the intermediate and deep routes.
However; he has improved tremendously from last year. It seems that his accuracy is more related to timing as he is going through his progressions. Its important to keep in mind that he is a 2nd year QB and has to develop timing with his 1st and 2nd year WRs.
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  #116  
Old 12-21-2012, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Yes, he is wrong!

Dalton is having two seasons that only the top QBs in the league have had at the start of their careers.
But he's still missing a lot of things because he's too busy staring AJ down.
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  #117  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

Let's not let facts get in the way of some hack writer's article so he can drum up eyeballs. Dalton's improved from last season, as the facts point out.

Another comparison with what I consider another top QB in the NFL, Tom Brady.

In Brady's first full season he threw 18 TDs with 12 INTs and an 86.5 AB rating.

In his 2nd full season, he threw 28 TDs and 14 INTS, with an 85.7 QB rating.

Dalton was a little behind him in his 1st season, and a little bit ahead of Brady in his 2nd season.

Again, don't let that comparison get in the way of all the whining.

Last edited by graphicguy; 12-21-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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  #118  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:45 PM
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bengals Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by CornerBlitz View Post
Shake I always call it like I see it. I gave him props in the middle of the season when he was tearing it up, but lately he seems to be struggling. He does leave points on the field, and is at times very indecisive in the pocket. An indecisive QB with mediocre arm strength leads to many punts and bad throws. I hope he turns it around but he was pretty bad last thursday.

Instead of getting on folks that hate on his game won't you at least acknowledge that he has been very inconsistent. If you watch the coach cam it is clear that he makes some very idiotic decisions and throws it to the guys that are covered instead of the guys that are open.
If it AJ that is covered then it is not idiotic at all. AJ should be EXPECTED to beat coverage. While we are pinning things on Dalton let's share some fault for the poor offensive performance. If we are going to be honest as many are claiming to be then let's talk about the problems our 1st RD WR is having separating from coverage instead of pointing all fingers at our 2nd RD QB.
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  #119  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

Had we not lost the Dallas game, we'd be riding a 6 game winning streak, and nobody would be talking about this.
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  #120  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
This was taken from one of the fantasy football websites I read.

The bolded comments are from Cosell.

"The one Week 16 concern for Green is Steelers defensive coordinator **** LeBeau's historical befuddling of Dalton. In three career matchups with Pittsburgh, Dalton has completed 40-of-82 passes (48.8 percent) for 410 yards (5.0 YPC), four touchdowns, and three interceptions. Dalton has never topped 170 yards against the Steelers. "Dalton, despite excellent fantasy numbers, has really not played that well," NFL Films' Greg Cosell opined. "He continues to miss throws that are there. He continues to leave plays on the field. He's becoming a little quick to move now, he's perceiving pressure at times. He's not been very sharp." On the road for this one and playing poorly recently, Dalton is not in the QB1 discussion. ... "

I know Cosell has been pretty rough on Dalton but is he wrong?

Thoughts, comments?
Yes, he's dead wrong. Has Dalton left some plays on the field, yea, but what QB doesn't? He's got a 90 rating, which is solid, and his receivers have failed him more than he has failed them and he's actually getting better at recognizing the pressure he may or may not be under. He scrambled prematurely more often last season than he has this year and he continues to improve in that area.

He's been down two of the last three games but the Dallas game was not his fault for the mid 70's rating......All the dropped balls killed him that day.
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  #121  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
Yes, he's dead wrong. Has Dalton left some plays on the field, yea, but what QB doesn't? He's got a 90 rating, which is solid, and his receivers have failed him more than he has failed them and he's actually getting better at recognizing the pressure he may or may not be under. He scrambled prematurely more often last season than he has this year and he continues to improve in that area.

He's been down two of the last three games but the Dallas game was not his fault for the mid 70's rating......All the dropped balls killed him that day.
If they catch those balls, we win that game and Andy gets to add at least one more TD to his record (remember the slant AJ dropped on the 4 yard line?). No way does that 70 rating stand if they catch those balls.
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  #122  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

While Greg Cosell is correct when he says Andy Dalton is making occasional bad throws and he is leaving points on the field, Cosell is ignoring several factors here.

1. Not only is Andy Dalton only a second year quarterback, he is also teamed up with a second year offensive coordinator.

2. Since Mohamed Sanu went down, 55% of Andy's passes have been thrown to AJ Green and Jermaine Gresham whereas prior to that point, only 46% of Andy's passes were thrown to AJ and Jermaine. So, basically Andy has two receivers to choose from at this point because Marvin Jones is not consistent yet and, let's face it, I think Jay Gruden doesn't know better than to play Andrew Hawkins more.

3. Coverage is rolled heavily to AJ Green's side of the field. If Greg Cosell doesn't understand how that makes a quarterback try to steer the ball into tight coverages and maybe even throw a pick or two, he might be better suited to analyzing figure skating.

4. The offensive line has had a couple bad weeks. They continue to run block well but the pass blocking could stand some help. Rotating centers has to stop: It's stupid. There, I said it!

5. With the run game improving, it takes pressure from Andy to pass so he can afford to take a few shots downfield here and there knowing that if the pass isn't caught, a couple run plays will yield a first down.

Greg Cosell watches football the way most people do: By isolating a player or two at a time. You can't do that. This is actually unfair to the players under scrutiny because it takes eleven players to mess up on pass plays, not just one player. Cosell needs to reverse his recto-cranial inversion and realize passes are a team effort, not just an act between the quarterback and receiver.
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  #123  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by Shady View Post
If they catch those balls, we win that game and Andy gets to add at least one more TD to his record (remember the slant AJ dropped on the 4 yard line?). No way does that 70 rating stand if they catch those balls.
Exactly, I figure he's easily in the 90's that day if they had dropped one or two instead of five or six....Then, instead of it appearing he's on a three game slide, you're looking at four of the last six games being rated 90's or 100s, three 100s and one 90's to be exact.
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  #124  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:42 PM
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bengals Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by reuben.ahmed View Post

If Sanu didn't get hurt, I think we would have 6 straight right now and nobody would be talking about any offensive woes.
Agreed.
Other than the plays left on the field,OL play of late,dropped passes,this offense is missing a reliable,consistent #2 threat ala Jerome Simpson. It was gonna be Tate in TC,maybe Binns,Jones has a good preseason.
This offense was starting to click when Sanu got in a groove. We should utilize our other weapons more efficiently,like Hawkins and plays that get him the ball in open space.
Still think we could get there with this roster minus the obvious offensive miscues.
Now's the time for Marvin Jones to run by a depleted secondary. (Assuming OL improves)
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Last edited by SouthernStripes; 12-21-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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  #125  
Old 12-22-2012, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Cosell on Dalton

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Originally Posted by BengalsFan024 View Post
Considering Flacco is a Top 5 QB he doesnt have far to go lol

but as far as putting up top 5 numbers it might not happen as long as we have a reliable ground attack. i personally think if your QB has to throw the ball 50 times a game your doing something wrong.

Andy does his best around 30 throws which is plenty in my opinion. I don't trust him throwing over 35 times unless we are having a lights out day in the passing game. BJGE has become too solid for us to be putting it all on Andy.
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