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  #1  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:26 PM
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Default Mock drafts have us...

Why does every mock draft I see by the "experts" have us picking a pass rushing DE in the first round?

With Dunlap and Atkins we are good. Even if we let MJ walk, which I hope we do not, I don't think DE is our #1 need. Something maybe C, RB, S would be priority over DE.

Thoughts? I don't live in Cincy area so I don't get to see all games so maybe I'm wrong..

Last edited by CincIndy; 12-25-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

LB is a need also. If we don't sign MJ, DE is a legitimate early need, to me....

Last edited by goalpost; 12-24-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CincIndy View Post
Why does every mock draft I see by the "experts" have us picking a pass rushing DE in the first round?

With Dunlap and Atkins we are good. Even if we let MJ walk, which I hope we do not, I don't think DE is our #1 need. Something maybe C, RB, S would be priority over DE.

Thoughts? I don't like in Cincy area so I don't get to see all games so maybe I'm wrong..
Even if we keep MJ, we should look at upgrading our DE. Dunlap has durability issues and is pretty quiet during some games and that is WITH Atkins going crazy. So either teams are doubling up on Dunlap and that is why Atkins is so productive or they are doubling Atkins and he is still productive meaning that Dunlap is getting shut down on his 1 on 1s.

However it wouldn't hurt to get a guy like Werner, Okafor or Ansah. Some like Montgomery and believe he be there but I am not a huge fan of his. However the draft is a crap shoot and it is hard to say who will be good in the NFL or not.

Getting that premier Pass Rushing DE that can get to the QB even without Atkins would be a huge boon for this Defense that would take us to another level entirely.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

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Originally Posted by Cincy's Best View Post
Even if we keep MJ, we should look at upgrading our DE.

Getting that premier Pass Rushing DE that can get to the QB even without Atkins would be a huge boon for this Defense that would take us to another level entirely.
Isn't that exactly what MJ was SUPPOSE to be for us?
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

The reason we WILL draft a DE in the first round is because......

There are no LB worth a first round pick outside of Jarvis Jones and Manti Te'o. Mosely is going back to school and Ogeltree will most likely fall to the second where we can pick him up with 2A.

DE is stocked very well in this years draft. Werner, Mingo, Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery. A lot of mocks have us going after Montgomery and I have even seen a few going with Okafor. Both of those DE would take our line from Great to Unbelievable. You find a way to rotate MJ, Dunlap with Gilberry and Okafor/Montomery/Ansah and you have a non stop line that will get in the face of the QB.

We are continuing to fall into the 20's and the farther back we fall, the more likely we will grab a DE.

1 - DE - Montgomery / Okafor
2A - LB - Ogeltree / Greene / Barr
2B - RB - Bernard / Lacy
3 - SS / FS - Rambo
4 - CB - Trufant

Id take that draft all day long and it would make us so much better!
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

I wouldn't mind seeing us also looking at a veteran DE that still has gas in the tank. Maybe Dwight Freeney or Osi Umenyiora.

Replace Geathers with one of those guys, and replace MJ (if necessary) in Day 2 of the draft.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

evan a guy like cliff avril could do wonders in a rotation for us and you know how much we like rotations
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2nd Eric Kendricks LB
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4th Tony Washington LB
4th Quandre Diggs CB
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2014 draft
1st Deone Bucannon S
2nd Cyrus Kouandjio T
3rd Pierre Desir CB
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UDFA Dede Lattimore LB
UDFA Jerome Smith RB
UDFA Chaz Sutton DE
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

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Originally Posted by ishouldbegm View Post
evan a guy like cliff avril could do wonders in a rotation for us and you know how much we like rotations
Yeah, I meant to list him too and forgot. I don't know how likely he is to hit the open market, but i'd actually love to have him. Only 26 years old and has 28 sacks over the last 3 seasons.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CincIndy View Post
Isn't that exactly what MJ was SUPPOSE to be for us?
Are 3rd round DEs known to be elite pass rushers?
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2012, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
Are 3rd round DEs known to be elite pass rushers?
Michael Johnson was mocked to be drafted #42 overall, thats 2nd round pick 10. I never said he was elite, but the point remains why would we let him walk when he doesn't do a horrible job?
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CincIndy View Post
Why does every mock draft I see by the "experts" have us picking a pass rushing DE in the first round?

With Dunlap and Atkins we are good. Even if we let MJ walk, which I hope we do not, I don't think DE is our #1 need. Something maybe C, RB, S would be priority over DE.

Thoughts? I don't like in Cincy area so I don't get to see all games so maybe I'm wrong..
RB - None of the RBs are worth a 1st round selection.

S - There is a deep enough pool at safety to get a high quality safety still in the 2nd or the 3rd round.

C - This is an intriguing option. WTS, there probably isn't a Center worth a 1st round pick. Barrett Jones, maybe.

So, it goes to DE or LB.

LB - Depending on what the Bengals do at LB, there is a very probable option.

WILL is our biggest need with Howard probably returning on the cheap following his injury. The Bengals need a coverage WILL that can shut down TEs and cover well. Ogletree would be very, very enticing WILL.

MIKE is also a big need, but there isn't an apparent upgrade to Maualuga (probably/perhaps Te'o).

If Burfict slides over to SAM, then the starting SAM should be locked down for quite some time.

WILL: Howard/Lemur
MIKE: Maualuga/Skuta
SAM: Burfict/Moch or Joiner or Schaffer

All the back up LBs (Lemur/Skuta) could/should be upgraded as well. But, this could happen later in the draft.
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2012, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CincIndy View Post
Michael Johnson was mocked to be drafted #42 overall, thats 2nd round pick 10. I never said he was elite, but the point remains why would we let him walk when he doesn't do a horrible job?
Because "not doing horrible" isn't worth 10+ million dollars?
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  #13  
Old 12-24-2012, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Because "not doing horrible" isn't worth 10+ million dollars?
I don't see us throwing more than 6.5/yr at him.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincy's Best View Post
Even if we keep MJ, we should look at upgrading our DE. Dunlap has durability issues and is pretty quiet during some games and that is WITH Atkins going crazy. So either teams are doubling up on Dunlap and that is why Atkins is so productive or they are doubling Atkins and he is still productive meaning that Dunlap is getting shut down on his 1 on 1s.

However it wouldn't hurt to get a guy like Werner, Okafor or Ansah. Some like Montgomery and believe he be there but I am not a huge fan of his. However the draft is a crap shoot and it is hard to say who will be good in the NFL or not.

Getting that premier Pass Rushing DE that can get to the QB even without Atkins would be a huge boon for this Defense that would take us to another level entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CincIndy View Post
Michael Johnson was mocked to be drafted #42 overall, thats 2nd round pick 10. I never said he was elite, but the point remains why would we let him walk when he doesn't do a horrible job?
The original post was calling for a "premier Pass Rushing DE".

You wrote that MJ was supposed to be this player.

I responded that elite (aka "premier Pass Rushing DE") aren't typically drafted in the 3rd round. (Or mocked in the 2nd round, for that matter).

I hope that the Bengals re-sign Michael Johnson AND draft a 1st round DE as well. Perhaps another in the 2nd.

DE: MJ/Okafor
DT: Atkins/Thompson
DT: Peko/Still/Sims
DE: Dunlap/Ansah

The Bengals defense would operate with a lot more dominance if multiple dlinemen commanded double-teams (Atkins, Dunlap, Ansah, Okafor).

If the Bengals were to sign a FA RB (Reggie Bush) and a quality FA WR, then I think that the Bengals could really focus on taking our defense to a ridiculous (great) level in 2013.
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  #15  
Old 12-24-2012, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

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Originally Posted by Steeler Eater View Post
I don't see us throwing more than 6.5/yr at him.
I agree.
I would top out around 8 if he dominates the Baltimore game and won't take a cheaper deal.
I think at his age, 4 year deal worth 6.5-7 mil per is fine. Still gives him time to make a big splash before age 30.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Yes DE first round. Simply out NFL, in its current state, is about one thing throwing the football. Therefore positions that have the most impact on that, throwing, are at the premium: QB, LT, and DE. Other positions with a secondary impact DB, LB, RB, WR are of less importance. (Some positions are have nearly disappeared FB and big MLB [Willis is a freak.])

Who did NYG have when they drafted Jason Pierre Paul at DL? Never have enough especially in Zim's system.

Ezekiel Ansah.
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeler Eater View Post
I don't see us throwing more than 6.5/yr at him.
You'd rather throw 5/55 at Avril instead??


I still like the idea of signing Henry Melton from Chicago. Him next to Geno would be ridiculous.
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  #18  
Old 12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

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You'd rather throw 5/55 at Avril instead??


I still like the idea of signing Henry Melton from Chicago. Him next to Geno would be ridiculous.
I think throwing big money at a DT is a bad idea. We have to pay our 3 DL studs which is not going to be cheap. And preferably we keep Sims around plus we have the two rookies who presumably will have improved from their rookie year to their 2nd year.

I would rather bring Sims back for 2-3mil than pay Melton 8-9 mil. DT is arguably the strongest position group on our team and I can make no sense of spending a huge amount of money to add a guy to a spot not in need of help.
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:38 PM
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I think throwing big money at a DT is a bad idea. We have to pay our 3 DL studs which is not going to be cheap. And preferably we keep Sims around plus we have the two rookies who presumably will have improved from their rookie year to their 2nd year.

I would rather bring Sims back for 2-3mil than pay Melton 8-9 mil. DT is arguably the strongest position group on our team and I can make no sense of spending a huge amount of money to add a guy to a spot not in need of help.
The only way I see us adding to the DT core is if something crazy happens and Sims + another guy leaves (trade, cut, etc) or someone falls to us and the value is too good (Star/Hankins in 1, J. Williams in 2)
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:50 PM
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The only way I see us adding to the DT core is if something crazy happens and Sims + another guy leaves (trade, cut, etc) or someone falls to us and the value is too good (Star/Hankins in 1, J. Williams in 2)
Even if Sims leaves we do not have to add a DT. But I agree if BPA happens to be DT, by all means keep adding to our arsenal. Shariff Floyd deserves serious consideration in the 2nd as well.

I hope we have been toying with Still at DE. Seattle plays Red Bryant at DE and he is listed at 6'4" 323. As much as I know you want a DE in the draft I don't think we would be too bad off replacing Geathers with a combination of Still and Moch.
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CincIndy View Post
Isn't that exactly what MJ was SUPPOSE to be for us?
Yes and No... MJ was a physical phenom who lacked motivation. Pass Rushers need to go 100mph every play. Have that great burst of speed off the snap. MJ is doing what Dunlap SHOULD be doing. He is taking advantage at having Atkins playing at such a high level.

Should MJ be resigned? Yes. We have the cap space and he has been an Ironman for us. How much he should be resigned for is ultimately up to him. We can make an offer and we can even choose to match any offer given to him, however if he wants to move on to another team then we will lose him. Yet only the team can make the offer and it is up to him to accept it or not.

As to your question about why take a pass rusher in the first. Like I said, we should look to upgrade that position. Geathers is older and doesn't have that consistent big play. Dunlap has durability concerns and has disappeared. Gilberry is a lot like MJ getting stats because of the dominance of Atkins.

Getting a guy like Okafor or Ansah or even Werner, we now have a guy that would be productive even without Atkins in the line up. Pair one of them with Atkins and Atkins' numbers will explode or their numbers will be unbelievable.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan View Post
RB - None of the RBs are worth a 1st round selection.

S - There is a deep enough pool at safety to get a high quality safety still in the 2nd or the 3rd round.

C - This is an intriguing option. WTS, there probably isn't a Center worth a 1st round pick. Barrett Jones, maybe.

So, it goes to DE or LB.

LB - Depending on what the Bengals do at LB, there is a very probable option.

WILL is our biggest need with Howard probably returning on the cheap following his injury. The Bengals need a coverage WILL that can shut down TEs and cover well. Ogletree would be very, very enticing WILL.
I
MIKE is also a big need, but there isn't an apparent upgrade to Maualuga (probably/perhaps Te'o).

If Burfict slides over to SAM, then the starting SAM should be locked down for quite some time.

WILL: Howard/Lemur
MIKE: Maualuga/Skuta
SAM: Burfict/Moch or Joiner or Schaffer

All the back up LBs (Lemur/Skuta) could/should be upgraded as well. But, this could happen later in the draft.
Safety is deep, but if we feel that 1 could turn out like Reed or Polumalu then I say jump on him. Seeing how disruptive and dangerous Troy was yesterday for Pitt makes me want that on our defense.

My personal desire is
1. Safety
2a. DE
2b. LB
3. Speed RB

Then at some pt another DE, LB.

This is all contingent on us resigning Andre Smith. If we can't resign him, then RT becomes highest priority, unless Collins is our guy...
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS View Post
Even if Sims leaves we do not have to add a DT. But I agree if BPA happens to be DT, by all means keep adding to our arsenal. Shariff Floyd deserves serious consideration in the 2nd as well.

I hope we have been toying with Still at DE. Seattle plays Red Bryant at DE and he is listed at 6'4" 323. As much as I know you want a DE in the draft I don't think we would be too bad off replacing Geathers with a combination of Still and Moch.
Bryant is very athletic for his size. IDK if Still has that athleticism.
I would love to see it.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:43 AM
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I'm thinking we need a linebacker in round 1 maybe a a DE.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Mock drafts have us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewee28 View Post
The reason we WILL draft a DE in the first round is because......

There are no LB worth a first round pick outside of Jarvis Jones and Manti Te'o. Mosely is going back to school and Ogeltree will most likely fall to the second where we can pick him up with 2A.

DE is stocked very well in this years draft. Werner, Mingo, Ansah, Okafor, Montgomery. A lot of mocks have us going after Montgomery and I have even seen a few going with Okafor. Both of those DE would take our line from Great to Unbelievable. You find a way to rotate MJ, Dunlap with Gilberry and Okafor/Montomery/Ansah and you have a non stop line that will get in the face of the QB.

We are continuing to fall into the 20's and the farther back we fall, the more likely we will grab a DE.

1 - DE - Montgomery / Okafor
2A - LB - Ogeltree / Greene / Barr
2B - RB - Bernard / Lacy
3 - SS / FS - Rambo
4 - CB - Trufant

Id take that draft all day long and it would make us so much better!
I actually think the farther we fall, the less likely it is that we take a DE.

Usually the top 5 pass rushers are gone by #20. It makes no sense to take the 6th best when you could take the top S or a top 2 or 3 RB.
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