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  #26  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

I play it conservative.....I have seen one too many times Andy turn the ball over or we fumble in the last 2 minutes of the first half.
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  #27  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Dabo614 View Post
See people "like him" dont get it,,,they just say "let it go we won" what they dont realize is we should have lost that game do to the coaching and we lucked out, especially that their kicker missed that FG.

But the big elephant still remains in the room which will hinder this team and that is our HC.

Who in the hell goes for it on 4th and 22 when they have the lead????????

This coach discust me and if any of you think we will ever make a serious playoff run with him then i want a sample of the drugs you smoke.
So we were just lucky that our defense dominated them all game?

Cool.
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  #28  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
And my question on that 60 yard play is WHERE WAS THE SAFETY??

Re. 4th and 22: Marvy wanted the fans to think he was not conservative in a big game. Even though the play almost worked, it was less than smart.

My pet peeve is when you have 2nd and 1 yd to go, do not run BJGE for a loss (2 different times) -- throw it deep.
Yeah, I'm sure he did it for the fans.


lol
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

Marvin did the right thing running out the clock.

Dalton threw an interception to start the 3rd quarter. Had that happened at the end of the 2nd quarter...disasterous.

Also, had we passed and threw incomplete passes, then the Steelers could have saved their timeouts. Instead of taking a knee, then they try to score.

Plus, our offense did NOTHING all game. NOTHING. We weren't going to mount a long drive there and score.

The Dallas game should have showed what being aggressive does. We lost because of it. It probably costed us the division.
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  #30  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by McC View Post
At the time, I didn't like the passive approach. Looking back on it, with hindsight being 20/20, it turned out okay. I definitely didn't like it when it was happening though. But, in that came, playing it close to the vest was not a bad way to go.
I think that as fans we envision the team driving down and scoring. That wasn't going to happen though as our offense couldn't move the ball.

Literally, if the Steelers made that 23 yard fg...we probably lose that game. The game was that close.
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  #31  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by BengalsRocker View Post
Run 3 times even though you haven't been able to and chance a fumble.

1st down - 4 yard gain
2nd down - 2 yard loss
3rd down - 2 yard gain

4th down punt and give them an opportunity to return it.

Up by three and just giving up a huge touchdown to Brown. Was this a mistake by Marvin or good coaching?

Could Andy have driven for a TD or at the least a FG attempt?

Was this another example of bad clock/timeout management?
I agree I was not happy either, but they managed 3 points in the other 28 minutes of te half what were they going to do in 1:00 besides throw an int.
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  #32  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by Dabo614 View Post
See people "like him" dont get it,,,they just say "let it go we won" what they dont realize is we should have lost that game do to the coaching and we lucked out, especially that their kicker missed that FG.

But the big elephant still remains in the room which will hinder this team and that is our HC.

Who in the hell goes for it on 4th and 22 when they have the lead????????

This coach discust me and if any of you think we will ever make a serious playoff run with him then i want a sample of the drugs you smoke.
Same thing over and over again....if AJ gets the other half of his foot in and we score a TD to lock up the game then everyone would be saying ML has huge balls and really showed them and his team he wanted to win...I did not agree with going for it at all but just sayin...it was not even one half of a foot...not 12 inches..literally a half a foot...
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  #33  
Old 12-25-2012, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

I just wonder if what happened at the end of he first half in week 7 against Pitt came into play with the 3
straight runs at the end of the first half.

Dalton being picked off by Woodley in the first meeting leading to the Steelers' TD changed the entire complexity of that game. I was not a fan of playing it conservative but a turnover deep in Bengals territory to end the first half of both games would have set many fans off.


In the end it appeared to be the right decision.
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  #34  
Old 12-25-2012, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

When you look at the way we won the game (Nelson INT) it makes playing it safe seem like Marvin made the right call.

I was infuriated at the time that we didn't try to answer.

In retrospect playing it safe there with the lead knowing you get the ball to start the 3rd quarter was absolutely the right thing to do.

However, I think if we have over a minute to go, two timeouts, and possession of the football we should be able to score points every time. Maybe if it wasn't the biggest game of Dalton's young career we would have gone for it. Hopefully as Dalton gains more experience Marvin will take better advantage of scoring opportunities.
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  #35  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

Thanks to all who have posted.

All I really wanted to know is how you felt about it. Was it the right call?

At the time I was upset they were passive. Every minute counts and not all drives are the same. If anything, it might give us a spark to answer... and no, I didn't want to have to punt the ball back to them.

Hindsight it was the right thing to do. Now I'm convinced. Our offense and the "drives" were stagnant.

Bfine made some great points.

I just don't understand why we can't discuss things without people acting like it's blasphemous because we won.

It's not always about b*tching and moaning.
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  #36  
Old 12-25-2012, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by BengalzHacker View Post
We won. Let it go...
The next time the Bengals lose because of Marvin (and other factors obviously), could somebody re-post this?


Bengals fans have become so complacent over the years. Sometimes I wonder how good we'd be with a really good coach.

But as far as laying down with over a minute to play, doubt I'll ever be for that. That reminds me of 90's Bengals football. I think you can take at least 1 play and see if you can move the ball. If not, then run it a couple of times. I'd like to think that the Bengals can score on any given drive, so giving up precious plays just because you haven't been scoring is ridiculous to me. Pittsburgh scores? Reach up and slap them back in the mouth. Don't lay down and hide in the locker room. Remember, it was first down, not 4th and 22. Going to take a miracle with Marvin at the helm. I think most of us know that though.

Just my opinion folks.
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  #37  
Old 12-25-2012, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by 2MinutesHate View Post
The next time the Bengals lose because of Marvin (and other factors obviously), could somebody re-post this?


Bengals fans have become so complacent over the years. Sometimes I wonder how good we'd be with a really good coach.

But as far as laying down with over a minute to play, doubt I'll ever be for that. That reminds me of 90's Bengals football. I think you can take at least 1 play and see if you can move the ball. If not, then run it a couple of times. I'd like to think that the Bengals can score on any given drive, so giving up precious plays just because you haven't been scoring is ridiculous to me. Pittsburgh scores? Reach up and slap them back in the mouth. Don't lay down and hide in the locker room. Remember, it was first down, not 4th and 22. Going to take a miracle with Marvin at the helm. I think most of us know that though.

Just my opinion folks.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

As Bfine pointed out... we were barely moving the ball even with a short field.

I'd like to think that every drive is not the same.

Especially watching teams like the Colts move the ball with little time and score.

Maybe we're just not that good... or maybe Pittsburgh's D is too good for that to happen. Top of the league in fact.

At any rate, we've lived(in this game)and died by ignorance of game time and timeouts and how to manage them.

Let's just hope ultimately it doesn't come back to bite us in the a**.

We've seen teams game in and game out drive at the end of the half only to score or kick a field goal on us.

Why can't we do the same?

It's obvious now, we probably weren't going to do that against the Steelers D in this game.

The hope we were going to regroup at halftime to come out firing is kind of silly though... considering this season's dreadful 3 Qtr woes.

Evidence one... Andy getting picked right off the bat.

At least our D stood to the challenge and punched them in the mouth.
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  #38  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
And my question on that 60 yard play is WHERE WAS THE SAFETY??

Re. 4th and 22: Marvy wanted the fans to think he was not conservative in a big game. Even though the play almost worked, it was less than smart.

My pet peeve is when you have 2nd and 1 yd to go, do not run BJGE for a loss (2 different times) -- throw it deep.
It was a blown S blitz by Nelson.

Normally he'd have been over the top to cover the double move but a S blitz had been called so there was no S help. Jones, asuming Ben wouldn't have had time to hold the ball long enough to get beat on a deep route, given the blitz call, bit on the out fake. Had Nelson not got caught in no man's land on the blitz (watch the video he streaks in late and realizes he can't get to Ben and just kind of stops) and had he been on time with the blitz, he might well have been in Ben's grill and prevented the deep ball throw altogether. Jones didn't get burnt, Nelson blew the blitz. If I'm not mistaken I even seen a Zimmer quote saying as much.
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  #39  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by BengalsRocker View Post
You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

As Bfine pointed out... we were barely moving the ball even with a short field.

I'd like to think that every drive is not the same.

Especially watching teams like the Colts move the ball with little time and score.

Maybe we're just not that good... or maybe Pittsburgh's D is too good for that to happen. Top of the league in fact.

At any rate, we've lived(in this game)and died by ignorance of game time and timeouts and how to manage them.

Let's just hope ultimately it doesn't come back to bite us in the a**.

We've seen teams game in and game out drive at the end of the half only to score or kick a field goal on us.

Why can't we do the same?

It's obvious now, we probably weren't going to do that against the Steelers D in this game.

The hope we were going to regroup at halftime to come out firing is kind of silly though... considering this season's dreadful 3 Qtr woes.

Evidence one... Andy getting picked right off the bat.

At least our D stood to the challenge and punched them in the mouth.
And I wasn't trying to be a jerk with my initial comment.

There have been dozens of threads already discussing every short coming of this coaching staff. Just thought you were trying to start another b--ch thread about the same thing. You've proven you were not, might have been worth being a bit more explainitory in the OP though,

I was just hoping to get you to relax and enjoy the big win.

So many seem to be overlooking the fact that we are a team on the rise. No coach is perfect. No staff is perfect. In fact, I'll grant you that our coaches make more than their fair share of boneheaded calls. I just don't think finding fault in a such a hard fought win over such a fierce foe, who'd been backed in to a corner and doing it on their turf no less, is fair. In the heat of the moment, if you want to beat an opponent who's had your number for so long, you sometimes got to do things they aren't/wouldn't be expecting. Playing for points at the end of the first half was probably expected. Going for it on 4th and 22 certainly was not (and it almost worked, missed by 2 inches!)

It's easy to second guess, but Marvin knew how important this win would be. He had to go against the grain at times to win and he did it. Didn't always work (like the 56 yard FG, but protecting the lead at the end of the first half did!)

Not trying to be a jerk or make enemies.

Who Dey!
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  #40  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

Here is the bottom line.

This team was 3-5. I thought and publicly stated that the season was over. No way we could reach the playoffs. Despite the errors, this head coach has managed this team to a 6-1 record since then. They are in the playoffs for the second year in a row and are clearly hungry for more.

Everyone seems so concerned about 'style points' these days. How pretty does the win look? Does it impress the analysts? If the Bengals coaching staff mismanaged the clock every game from here on out, and the Offense committed 4 turnovers every game, and the Bengals won every game 13-10 on their way to a Super Bowl ring, who really CARES?

If any of us were managing the Bengals, they would be 0-15 right now. Lewis, to his credit, has rebuilt a team (from the ashes) rather quickly, with a rookie QB, and taken them to back to back playoff appearances.

Let's give the team a chance and see what they can do in the postseason. No one is taking them seriously. No one took them seriously at the beginning of the year. Almost every analyst said this team would not make the playoffs again. Almost every analyst NOW says this team is not a serious contender in the playoffs. This team, formerly at 3-5, for all intensive purposes, should not be in the playoffs. Yet, here we are. Let's be happy about their success.

For all the compalining by Bengals' fans, its almost like we don't know how to act now that our team has made the playoffs in back to back seasons. We are beginning to gain some amount of momentum and success and we know nothing more than to complain about our team (because that is all we have known to do for so many years).

Put some faith in our coaches and players!
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  #41  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by Baby Hawk View Post
This is more than I know, but here is my guess.

We had a play ready that had some chance of sucess. It failed by less than the width of A.J.'s foot.

Even if it worked, we probably would have had to settle for a field goal.

Still, they were stuffing our offense. This might have been our best chance of putting up more points.

I've seen a lot of posts blasting M.L. for "playing not to lose" vs. "playing to win".

This was a pretty ballsy call. Lets start blasting him for taking a chance and believing in his players, both on offense and defense.

WhoDey.
Unless theres less than 5 minutes left in the game and you're down by 7 or more, Going for it
on 4th and 22 is "playing to lose". Punting the ball would of been the responsible call.

They won the game and thats what matters, but continued irresponsible playcalling will be a problem in the playoffs.
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  #42  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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And I wasn't trying to be a jerk with my initial comment.

There have been dozens of threads already discussing every short coming of this coaching staff. Just thought you were trying to start another b--ch thread about the same thing. You've proven you were not, might have been worth being a bit more explainitory in the OP though,

I was just hoping to get you to relax and enjoy the big win.

So many seem to be overlooking the fact that we are a team on the rise. No coach is perfect. No staff is perfect. In fact, I'll grant you that our coaches make more than their fair share of boneheaded calls. I just don't think finding fault in a such a hard fought win over such a fierce foe, who'd been backed in to a corner and doing it on their turf no less, is fair. In the heat of the moment, if you want to beat an opponent who's had your number for so long, you sometimes got to do things they aren't/wouldn't be expecting. Playing for points at the end of the first half was probably expected. Going for it on 4th and 22 certainly was not (and it almost worked, missed by 2 inches!)

It's easy to second guess, but Marvin knew how important this win would be. He had to go against the grain at times to win and he did it. Didn't always work (like the 56 yard FG, but protecting the lead at the end of the first half did!)

Not trying to be a jerk or make enemies.

Who Dey!
That's okay. I also know my comments were two different topics but are connected to coaching of the team.

By no means am I bagging on the players of the team and the hard fought game they played.

Actually Tomlin made some decisions and it came back to smack him in the face.

In hindsight he maybe should have run more against us. Thanks for that Mr. Tomlin.

I was just trying to gauge what people thought about Marvin's decision for holding two timeouts and not using the 1:09 to try to move the ball.

It made me a little peeved at the time and by the end of the game I forgot about it. I was so ecstatic about the win I didn't even think about.

After the excitement and happiness to win and bump our hated rivals out of the playoffs... the memory crept back in.

So I posed the question to JN community.

After reviewing all the plays throughout the game and points by Bfine and several others.

I'm convinced it was probably for the best. My thinking was flawed.

No worries. You just thought I was complaining to complain. Lord knows there's enough of that on here.
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  #43  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Punting the ball would of been the responsible call.
Wouldn't that be "Playing not to lose"?

I know how much folks hated that approach.
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  #44  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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.... take a lead into halftime and getting the ball back after the half.

That right there I think was a big factor....

If the Bengals would have had to kick it away to start the 2nd half, I think Marvin may have been a little more agressive.
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  #45  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

I would have tried to move the ball and at least get in field goal range. 2-4 good completions could have gotten them there. Hell, a lot of teams would have turned that time into a TD. With that said, it WAS the Pittsburgh Defense, and seeing how we performed against them the rest of the day, I don't think it would have made a big difference.

It was one of a few questionable moves by the man this past week, but oh well....I'm over it. He admitted he made mistakes, which is more than a lot of coaches will do, and hopefully he doesn't make those mistakes again on this Super Bowl run.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Run 3 times even though you haven't been able to and chance a fumble.

1st down - 4 yard gain
2nd down - 2 yard loss
3rd down - 2 yard gain

4th down punt and give them an opportunity to return it.

Up by three and just giving up a huge touchdown to Brown. Was this a mistake by Marvin or good coaching?

Could Andy have driven for a TD or at the least a FG attempt?

Was this another example of bad clock/timeout management?
Against that defense, in a game of that magnitude this late in the season, Marvin did exactly what he should have done there. He's working with the 20th ranked offense vs. the top ranked D in the league.

The reason coaches go conservative in situations like that is due to how emotionally crushing and demoralizing it would be to surrender the lead on a turnover deep in your own territory at the end of the half like that.

In the second half, then you can be more aggressive again cuz if something bad happens at least the guys don't have to stew over it. It's easier to swing momentum back your way when you get the ball right back, you get to keep fighting, the adrenalin keeps flowing, it's not nearly as disastrous to your team's morale. End of the half though, especially when your offense is outmatched, and don't kid yourself, the Steelers D still owns our offense, that was absolutely the right way to play it.
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  #47  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Against that defense, in a game of that magnitude this late in the season, Marvin did exactly what he should have done there. He's working with the 20th ranked offense vs. the top ranked D in the league.

The reason coaches go conservative in situations like that is due to how emotionally crushing and demoralizing it would be to surrender the lead on a turnover deep in your own territory at the end of the half like that.

In the second half, then you can be more aggressive again cuz if something bad happens at least the guys don't have to stew over it. It's easier to swing momentum back your way when you get the ball right back, you get to keep fighting, the adrenalin keeps flowing, it's not nearly as disastrous to your team's morale. End of the half though, especially when your offense is outmatched, and don't kid yourself, the Steelers D still owns our offense, that was absolutely the right way to play it.
I agree on all points. When you look at the big picture, it was the right thing to do in these particular circumstances. Not necessarily every game... and this may be called differently depending on the opponent, and what has already transpired in the game.
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  #48  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:00 PM
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I agree on all points. When you look at the big picture, it was the right thing to do in these particular circumstances. Not every game... and this may be called differently depending on the opponent, and what has already transpired in the game.
Or even if it's earlier in the season maybe be more aggressive with it. But in that spot, play it close to the vest going into the half every time.
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  #49  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by Abspara View Post
Unless theres less than 5 minutes left in the game and you're down by 7 or more, Going for it
on 4th and 22 is "playing to lose". Punting the ball would of been the responsible call.

They won the game and thats what matters, but continued irresponsible playcalling will be a problem in the playoffs.
I would prefer we don't punt from the opponents 33. We should have kicked a field goal. Its the NFL we have a kicker who can make a 50 yarder. I think the chances of converting a 50 yard FG are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than the chance of converting a 4th and 22 against the Steelers D. I could see a pooch punt maybe, definitely better than a 4th and 22

We were playing with the lead in a low scoring game, coming off a huge defensive stop negating a Dalton pick. The game would have been way less dramatic if we had just taken advantage of scoring opportunities.

Throwing the ball on a 3rd and 1 at the end of the game with less than 1 minute and two timeouts felt wrong. We signed BJGE for a reason and Andre and Zeitler were both picked in the first round for a reason. Marvin should have faith in their ability to get us a yard. I guess that just shows the respect Marvin has for their run D. At that point in time I bet a fresh Robinson would have laid fat boy Hampton down and Dalton sneaks for it easy. Seemed like we made it way harder than it should have been. Get a fresh set of downs and take your shots to get into FG range. Too early to go all or nothing when you have a yard to go and two timeouts.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:24 AM
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bengals Re: 1:09 Left in the half with 2 timeouts what do you do?

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Originally Posted by Dabo614 View Post
See people "like him" dont get it,,,they just say "let it go we won" what they dont realize is we should have lost that game do to the coaching and we lucked out, especially that their kicker missed that FG.

But the big elephant still remains in the room which will hinder this team and that is our HC.

Who in the hell goes for it on 4th and 22 when they have the lead????????

This coach discust me and if any of you think we will ever make a serious playoff run with him then i want a sample of the drugs you smoke.
They were within 2" of converting that 4th down. Had they you probably would be talking about how gutsy the call was and that it showed the Steelers we were not scared of their defense.
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