Cincinnati Bengals

Go Back   Cincinnati Bengals Message Boards - Forums > Cincinnati Bengals Football Discussion > Jungle Noise

Jungle Noise Bengals Football Discussion for BENGALS FANS ONLY. Visiting team fans please keep your postings in one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:00 AM
BengalYankee's Avatar
BengalYankee BengalYankee is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,772
Rep Points: 16832
Default Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Patriots opted for healthy and to avoid the Steelers. Maybe just to avoid the Steelers

In the season of 2005, Bill Belichick opted for seed 4 instead of seed 3. Seed 4 would have gotten them the Steelers, seed 3 got them Jacksonville. We all knew the Bengals turned it to be seed 3 and faced the Steelers. The Bengals also did not want seed 3 and played their worst game of the season getting blown out by the Kansas City Chiefs.

The Pats played Miami in New England on Jan 2, 2006 on the last game of the season. The Pats were heavy favorites with a lot of streaks on the line. This game was NOT the same where the Bengals are now. We are locked in as the 6th seed. In 2005, the Pats could have been seed 3 or 4. The Pats rested their starters and did not give a damn about momentum.

Look, everyone knows that Belichick is a genius. No one questions whether he is a great coach. He let his starters rest their last game, heck in all honesty that game against Miami was a dive. He let his 2nd-3rd stringers against Miami's first stringers. He let Doug Flutie do a drop kick!!!!!!

Alll this talk about momentum is foolish. The Pats wanted no part of the Steelers and preferred Jacksonville to come into New England to play in the cold. In the end, Bill was right, Jacksonville had to play in New England on a COLD SATURDAY NIGHT!!!!
Pittsburgh went on to win the Superbowl.

BTW, Miami is a rival to Pats.

Enter 2012, it is a long shot and ironically, the Pats would have to lose to Miami again but if they did and we "lose" to the Ravens. We get the Ravens instead of the Patriots.


Many would argue about momentum but I remember the 1988 49ers losing on purpose their last game of the year against their rivals the Rams to keep the Giants out of the playoffs via the wildcard. The 49ers were locked in the second seed and that last game against the Rams was in in Frisco that night. The 1988 Superbowl Champion 49ers got crushed by the Rams in Frisco, 38-16.

Yeah, momentum

For all those who want to put their heads into the sand and don't want to remember the 88 49ers, recently the Saints of 2009 loss their last THREE games of the season after into the playoffs with no momentum and came out Superbowl Champions. Let me repeat that for the hard of hearing, the Saints loss their last THREE games.


Now back to the 2005 Patriots who took a dive to avoid the 3rd seed. The reference is from New England sources.

Originally Posted by BengalYankee
Please read these and get back to me.

http://patspulpit.blogspot.com/2006/...-28-recap.html

"I don't think it looked that convincing. I think, when it came down to it, Belichick wanted the No. 4 seed, and with Kansas City beating Cincinnati, and beating them well and easily all day, Belichick sent in the "dive." No chance a running back stumbles through a hole and sends the game to overtime. A nice little throwaway that no one could conceivable catch, and there's your fourth seed. "





How is it that the Patriots can send in their 2nd and 3rd stringers against Maimi's 1st stringers, yet we can't do the same?
See the link below.

http://nwe.scout.com/2/484340.html


http://patspulpit.blogspot.com/2006/...en-thread.html
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:20 AM
WhoDeySailor's Avatar
WhoDeySailor WhoDeySailor is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rising Sun, In
Posts: 117
Rep Points: 165
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

For the Patriots and 88 9ers that works fine. However, you are talking about confident teams that dominated the regular season. They were great teams. Now lets look at our 2012 Bengals. 4 game losing streak and a 2-3 division record. Sure we had a four game win streak but who did we beat? The Giants, KC, Oakland, SD. We lost a heartbreaker to Dallas and then beat philly and a horrible pittsburgh team who was beat up by Oakland and SD and almost blew a game to KC. Of the above listed teams how many have playoff contention? Just the NFC East teams, and the wildcard teams look to possibly have a better record. We are a young team with a lot to learn and we need momentum. We need confidence. We need to know we can beat playoff teams and rivals. Resting our players isn't going to make us better. Lets see if we can get our offense clicking!

Last edited by WhoDeySailor; 12-25-2012 at 10:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:29 AM
BengalYankee's Avatar
BengalYankee BengalYankee is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,772
Rep Points: 16832
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDeySailor View Post
For the Patriots and 88 9ers that works fine. However, you are talking about confident teamsthat dominated the regular season. They were great teams. Now lets look at our 2012 Bengals. 4 game losing streak and a 2-3 division record. Sure we had a four game win streak but who did we beat? The Giants, KC, Oakland, SD. We lost a heartbreaker to Dallas and then beat philly and a horrible pittsburgh team who was beat up by Oakcland and SD and almost blew a game to KC. Of the above listed teams how many have playoff contention? Just the NFC East teams, and the wildcard teams look to possibly have a better record. We are a young team with a lot to learn and we need momentum. We need confidence. We need to know we can beat playoff teams and rivals. Resting our players isn't going to make us better. Lets see if we can get our offense clicking!

The Saints were a dominating team, but they had lost three in a row. The 1988 49ers were a dominating team and locked into the second seed. Yet they got blown out by their RIVAL in Frisco!!!!

The 2005 Patriots were NOT a dominating team. To say they, the 4th seed were dominating, would mean the 3rd seed the Bengals were even more dominating. We were good, very good but not dominating.

You mention rivals but the Saints, Patriots and 49ers all lost to their respected rivals. nIn regards to the Saints they lost to Dallas, Tampa Bay and Carolina. The last two were rivals and were inferior teams.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:33 AM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,075
Rep Points: 17911
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

I understand all the arguments on both sides. But, all in all, we gotta play it safe and let the starters watch from the sidelines.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:35 AM
Whatever Whatever is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,815
Rep Points: 20718
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Different teams, different situations. The big thing with the Patriots in '05 was that they had won three of the last four Super Bowls. They were a veteran team who had gone all the way multiple times. However, look at what Belicheck did in '01, when the Pats won their first Super Bowl. The Patriots won their last 6 games. Heck, they went out and played their starters in week 17 and crushed the Panthers 38-6. They took that momentum and rolled through the playoffs with it. Same thing with the '88 49'ers, they were already the team of the '80's, at that point.

I think that generally, if you've got a young team that hasn't been there before, then momentum is a lot more important. If you've got a veteran team that was won multiple championships, then resting them is preferred because you know they can turn it back on when they have to.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:35 AM
WhoDeySailor's Avatar
WhoDeySailor WhoDeySailor is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rising Sun, In
Posts: 117
Rep Points: 165
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalYankee View Post
The Saints were a dominating team, but they had lost three in a row. The 1988 49ers were a dominating team and locked into the second seed. Yet they got blown out by their RIVAL in Frisco!!!!

The 2005 Patriots were NOT a dominating team. To say they, the 4th seed were dominating, would mean the 3rd seed the Bengals were even more dominating. We were good, very good but not dominating.

You mention rivals but the Saints, Patriots and 49ers all lost to their respected rivals. nIn regards to the Saints they lost to Dallas, Tampa Bay and Carolina. The last two were rivals and were inferior teams.
The 05 Pats already had a super bowl winning QB and were a team people watched for even with a bad record, ie much like they are today even with a big loss to SF. The 88 SF team was dominat regardless of a loss to the rams and until the the losses at the end of the season no one was touching that Saints team. We havent won a Super Bowl. We havent dominated anyone worth mentioning, and we don't scare anybody. We need to get the right football mindset before we think about resting anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:48 AM
BengalYankee's Avatar
BengalYankee BengalYankee is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,772
Rep Points: 16832
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDeySailor View Post
The 05 Pats already had a super bowl winning QB and were a team people watched for even with a bad record, ie much like they are today even with a big loss to SF. The 88 SF team was dominat regardless of a loss to the rams and until the the losses at the end of the season no one was touching that Saints team. We havent won a Super Bowl. We havent dominated anyone worth mentioning, and we don't scare anybody. We need to get the right football mindset before we think about resting anyone.

So what you are saying the 05 Pats and the 88 49'ers, can take dives and rest players because of their history?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:57 AM
WhoDeySailor's Avatar
WhoDeySailor WhoDeySailor is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rising Sun, In
Posts: 117
Rep Points: 165
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Its not about history its about mantality. They knew their Qbs would find the wr. They knew they were a good football team. Honestly I'd be okay with resting our defense. But andy needs to be building chemisty with his receiving core. The Oline needs to work on protection and God knows we need to learn to catch the ball. We aren't a bad team but we aren't good enough to take weeks off. And as far as momentum goes, we could bring Peyton Manning into that topic.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:59 AM
OSUfan's Avatar
OSUfan OSUfan is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vandalia, ohio
Posts: 20,338
Rep Points: 19882
bengals Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Simple question.....did any of those teams have these players on it? Did any of those teams have as young a make up of core players as this team?

You cannot apply anything as a concrete rule when the personnel are vastly different. Even the players asked have stated they want to play. There are things this team needs to improve upon to make a deep playoff run. The only way to accurately assess improvement is in live game situations.

Better to test improvements next week than the first week of the playoffs don't you think?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:19 AM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,075
Rep Points: 17911
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Simple question.....did any of those teams have these players on it? Did any of those teams have as young a make up of core players as this team?

You cannot apply anything as a concrete rule when the personnel are vastly different. Even the players asked have stated they want to play. There are things this team needs to improve upon to make a deep playoff run. The only way to accurately assess improvement is in live game situations.

Better to test improvements next week than the first week of the playoffs don't you think?
It's just not worth the risk. Have to have all hands on deck for the playoffs. Training camp was six months ago. If they don't have it down by now, they never will.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:23 AM
OSUfan's Avatar
OSUfan OSUfan is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vandalia, ohio
Posts: 20,338
Rep Points: 19882
bengals Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
It's just not worth the risk. Have to have all hands on deck for the playoffs. Training camp was six months ago. If they don't have it down by now, they never will.
So if we did not see improvement in some areas week one of the playoffs and make an early exit then we would not need to see fire Marvin threads right?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:26 AM
bengalfan74's Avatar
bengalfan74 bengalfan74 is online now
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,462
Rep Points: 10267
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

If our offense was clicking on all cylinders I'd say sit it out. But we're not and very much need a confidence builder and momentum ! We should play 1st string the whole game like it was a have to win.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:27 AM
Jus10's Avatar
Jus10 Jus10 is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,074
Rep Points: 1095
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

This Bengals team is young, and needs all the work they can manage to get.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:28 AM
BengalYankee's Avatar
BengalYankee BengalYankee is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,772
Rep Points: 16832
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Simple question.....did any of those teams have these players on it? Did any of those teams have as young a make up of core players as this team?

You cannot apply anything as a concrete rule when the personnel are vastly different. Even the players asked have stated they want to play. There are things this team needs to improve upon to make a deep playoff run. The only way to accurately assess improvement is in live game situations.

Better to test improvements next week than the first week of the playoffs don't you think?
None of the teams I posted had the same players. There are many teams that were in a similar position that laid down down and rested their starters.

I remember the Browns needed the colts to beat the titans a few years ago and the colts lost at home to the titans with manning on the bench!!!!

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-...and-browns.jpg
__________________

Last edited by BengalYankee; 12-25-2012 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:31 AM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,075
Rep Points: 17911
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
So if we did not see improvement in some areas week one of the playoffs and make an early exit then we would not need to see fire Marvin threads right?
Who cares? You worry about threads. I just want a playoff run. Work on **** in practice.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:34 AM
WhoDeySailor's Avatar
WhoDeySailor WhoDeySailor is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rising Sun, In
Posts: 117
Rep Points: 165
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

I think this team has gotten hurt more in practice than games this year
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:37 AM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,075
Rep Points: 17911
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDeySailor View Post
I think this team has gotten hurt more in practice than games this year
True. But they're still gonna practice, no matter what.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:38 AM
OSUfan's Avatar
OSUfan OSUfan is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vandalia, ohio
Posts: 20,338
Rep Points: 19882
bengals Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
Who cares? You worry about threads. I just want a playoff run. Work on **** in practice.
And how do you gauge in practice improvement?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:40 AM
OSUfan's Avatar
OSUfan OSUfan is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vandalia, ohio
Posts: 20,338
Rep Points: 19882
bengals Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalYankee View Post
None of the teams I posted had the same players. There are many teams that were in a similar position that laid down down and rested their starters.

I remember the Browns needed the colts to beat the titans a few years ago and the colts lost at home to the titans with manning on the bench!!!!
If we had veteran players such as Manning it would not be a discussion. A Manning lead team or a Brady lead team is not the measuring stick for a second year QB.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:42 AM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,075
Rep Points: 17911
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
And how do you gauge in practice improvement?
How are you gonna gauge it against Ratbird second stringers? And how do you know it'll carry over to the following week?

You're not gonna put any playoff schemes on tape anyway. Not worth the risk. You refuse to see it. Gotcha.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:48 AM
OSUfan's Avatar
OSUfan OSUfan is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vandalia, ohio
Posts: 20,338
Rep Points: 19882
bengals Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
How are you gonna gauge it against Ratbird second stringers? And how do you know it'll carry over to the following week?

You're not gonna put any playoff schemes on tape anyway. Not worth the risk. You refuse to see it. Gotcha.
It is not about putting scheme on tape.....LMAO. It is about continued continuity and improvement of timing in live situations for guys such as Dalton and Marvin Jones. It is about reacting to guys you do not go against every day in practice.

I will agree to disagree. I see it perfectly and understand the risks. Because I do not agree with you does not mean I see anything less than you do. I also understand the risk of them not doing everything possible to be at the top of their game going into the playoffs.

How many threads has there been about momentum and the importance of it. Now all of a sudden it just is not that needed.

Maybe it is you not seeing it?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:52 AM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,075
Rep Points: 17911
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
It is not about putting scheme on tape.....LMAO. It is about continued continuity and improvement of timing in live situations for guys such as Dalton and Marvin Jones. It is about reacting to guys you do not go against every day in practice.

I will agree to disagree. I see it perfectly and understand the risks. Because I do not agree with you does not mean I see anything less than you do. I also understand the risk of them not doing everything possible to be at the top of their game going into the playoffs.

How many threads has there been about momentum and the importance of it. Now all of a sudden it just is not that needed.

Maybe it is you not seeing it?
Take a picture of momentum. Send me a box of it in the mail. Like I said, it's a concept, a momentary thing. And even if you find some or have some or get some against the cheap shot Ratbirds, what makes you think you can hold onto it for a week? Does the equipment guy bottle it and keep it on ice in the clubhouse? On the plane, do they put it in cargo or in the overhead? Maybe Marvin carries it in his lap.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-25-2012, 01:04 PM
BengalYankee's Avatar
BengalYankee BengalYankee is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,772
Rep Points: 16832
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

In any event, while I can understand but not agree with the points that we have a young team that needs the reps. There are knuckleheads on other threads stating that Belichick would never rest Brady the last game of the season. Those fools have no idea what they are talking about. Brady, Peyton, Montana, Rodgers etc have all sat down their regular finale.

Do these fools even remember last year when Rodgers did not play in the finale against Detroit?

When Peyton and the first string of the Colts were pulled against the Jets and their undefeated streak was finished.

Do people remember that??

Now, I am only referring to people who said Brady, Manning, etc and their coaches would never rest the finale

Even if you don't know about Montana/Bill Walsh of 1988 and their dive or 2005 Brady/Belichick and their dive.

What about 2007, where the colts in their home rested their starters against their division rivals, the Titans ?

That game put the Titans in the playoffs and put the Browns out! The Browns are not the colts rival, but the Titans are.

How about that for all the people yapping about rivals!

Now, I want to see people post games where it meant nothing for a playoff team, absolutely nothing whatsoever and they played their starters knocking out another team who was fighting for a playoff birth.

I know of one game, but I am not telling
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-25-2012, 01:12 PM
khamla's Avatar
khamla khamla is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,345
Rep Points: 2866
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

To be bluntly honest whatever we do we probably still will lose. I don't think we are better than any of the AFC teams.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-25-2012, 01:27 PM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,075
Rep Points: 17911
Default Re: Bengals don't need Momentum, aka 2005 Patriots, 1988 49ers, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khamla View Post
To be bluntly honest whatever we do we probably still will lose. I don't think we are better than any of the AFC teams.
This may or may not be true, but the cool thing is the script has not yet been written.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2012 Cincinnati Bengals. All rights reserved. Do not duplicate in any form without permission of the Cincinnati Bengals.