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  #26  
Old 12-25-2012, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_ View Post
Adam Jones (for poor coverage)
While I love to see these stats, this is a prime example of why they have to also be taken with a grain of salt. No doubt Jones was roasted for the deep 60 yard bomb, however, even Zimmer acknowledged that play was caused by a completely blown blitz by Nelson. He was supposed to blitz Ben but timed it so pathetically that by the time he'd gotten to the line of scrimmage you could seem him just stop realizing that he was too late to do anything. It left Jones hung out to dry with no over the top S help.

Had the blitz been timed better, Ben would have faced more pressure and not been able to hold the ball so long as he did to give the WR time to complete the double move and score. The play was blown more by Nelson than by Jones, yet Jones bears the brunt of the pain in the ratings.

I'm not slamming Nelson, he's played well for us over all, but on that one particular play, he blew it royally.

Who Dey, all!
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  #27  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by BengalzHacker View Post
While I love to see these stats, this is a prime example of why they have to also be taken with a grain of salt. No doubt Jones was roasted for the deep 60 yard bomb, however, even Zimmer acknowledged that play was caused by a completely blown blitz by Nelson. He was supposed to blitz Ben but timed it so pathetically that by the time he'd gotten to the line of scrimmage you could seem him just stop realizing that he was too late to do anything. It left Jones hung out to dry with no over the top S help.

Had the blitz been timed better, Ben would have faced more pressure and not been able to hold the ball so long as he did to give the WR time to complete the double move and score. The play was blown more by Nelson than by Jones, yet Jones bears the brunt of the pain in the ratings.

I'm not slamming Nelson, he's played well for us over all, but on that one particular play, he blew it royally.

Who Dey, all!
Right, but Jones still bit on the pump fake and double move. You can blame Nelson for not getting there in time but you have to put some blame on Jones for getting completely burnt. That wasn't Nelson's fault.
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  #28  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Right, but Jones still bit on the pump fake and double move. You can blame Nelson for not getting there in time but you have to put some blame on Jones for getting completely burnt. That wasn't Nelson's fault.
I don't totally disagree but Jones, who knew the blitz had been called too, probably also thought that there was no way Roth'berg should have had that much time to throw. That meant jumping the short route was the smart play, not the dumb play. Nelson's epic fail, watch the replay, it was aweful, was 75-90% at fault IMHO.
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  #29  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by CINCYPRODUCT View Post
I forgot to say Dunlap absolute monster you could see Ben worried about him all game (his eyes would drift toward him then boom geno nails him) to the point They chipped him almost every pass play the second half. It was down right nasty how he was taking a dump on their rt.
Burfict was posted above as having +0.9.
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  #30  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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At this stage in his career, Harrison is not a speed rusher.

Regardless of him being a linebacker.
lol it was tongue in cheek; people have been saying forever that he's a speed guy.
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  #31  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by bengalfan74 View Post
First off Merry Christmas everyone.

2nd thanks for posting Truck, good stuff

3rd IMHO Geno is the defensive player of the year ! Has anyone had that many sacks from the inside ever ? He's disruptive on oh so many plays even when he gets no tackle.

4th I have to admit Maualuga is playing much better and is leaps and bounds better in coverage than he was earlier this season.

5th Andy did have a pretty good game all things considered ! Let's hope O-line issues get ironed out because if they do........ WHY NOT US ?

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
First Off Merry Christmas one and all.

Now:

My Fantasy Football League disagreed with the fact Andy had a good game

Rey always ranks as our worst defender; however, or some reason folks keep saying he's playing better

My man Sims with a good score while Peko's stinking it up

Hope Paul Alexander got a lump of coal in his stocking this morning. Luckily Cook's play doesn't directly effect our OTs; unfotunately, it effects our OGs.

Can't say anything more about Geno and the DEs are impressive

We are one safety and a healthy Dre K from being an elite D backfield. 2 linebacker away from being an elite D.

Glad to see Big Dre bounce back.
Thanks guys

Sims' only good score of the year, bfine (second positive, but first that was truly GOOD), and like I said, your fantasy league doesn't take into account performance aside from numbers, so that's a moot point

And TBH, he HAS been playing better, but just not as poorly; still poor.
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  #32  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by BengalzHacker View Post
While I love to see these stats, this is a prime example of why they have to also be taken with a grain of salt. No doubt Jones was roasted for the deep 60 yard bomb, however, even Zimmer acknowledged that play was caused by a completely blown blitz by Nelson. He was supposed to blitz Ben but timed it so pathetically that by the time he'd gotten to the line of scrimmage you could seem him just stop realizing that he was too late to do anything. It left Jones hung out to dry with no over the top S help.

Had the blitz been timed better, Ben would have faced more pressure and not been able to hold the ball so long as he did to give the WR time to complete the double move and score. The play was blown more by Nelson than by Jones, yet Jones bears the brunt of the pain in the ratings.

I'm not slamming Nelson, he's played well for us over all, but on that one particular play, he blew it royally.

Who Dey, all!
Mex is correct.

These grades have to do with player on player performance, not player dependant on someone else.

The only time that is counted is if a guy deliberately runs into someone else, or throws his helmet, or whatever into the guy, to impede him.

Whether the blitz was made or not, Adam bit on the double move. He shouldn't have; a disciplined player worries about his man, not if somebody blows their assignment. That's the coaches responsibility (hence, Zimmer).
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  #33  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_ View Post
Mex is correct.

These grades have to do with player on player performance, not player dependant on someone else.

The only time that is counted is if a guy deliberately runs into someone else, or throws his helmet, or whatever into the guy, to impede him.

Whether the blitz was made or not, Adam bit on the double move. He shouldn't have; a disciplined player worries about his man, not if somebody blows their assignment. That's the coaches responsibility (hence, Zimmer).
I understand that, but this is why these grades are misleading. To say Jones shouldn't have jumped that route is to say you know how Zimmer coaches that play call. If he's telling Jones, on this blitz your primary read is a short/underneath route, then Jones did exactly what he was supposed to do and to say he shouldn't have would not be accurate.

Quote:
Both Green and Nelson taught the lesson of hanging-with-'em. On the second snap of the fourth quarter, Green fumbled at the Steelers 28 after a 12-yard pickup. On the Steelers only touchdown, Nelson was supposed to blitz in an all-out run at Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, but Nelson didn't go and Antonio Brown was able to get past cornerback Adam Jones for a 60-yard bomb late in the first half, the result of Jones jumping the route because he thought Roethlisberger had to hurry.
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-...9-39e34738e800
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  #34  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by BengalzHacker View Post
I understand that, but this is why these grades are misleading. To say Jones shouldn't have jumped that route is to say you know how Zimmer coaches that play call. If he's telling Jones, on this blitz your primary read is a short/underneath route, then Jones did exactly what he was supposed to do and to say he shouldn't have would not be accurate.
They can be, sure. No grading system will ever be perfect unless we know exactly what each play call is, what each player responsibility is and how they were coached to accomplish those responsibilities. Since PFF does not know that, they grade with the assumption that each player is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing and they grade it individually instead of collectively.

I get your point though, but more times than not, PFF grades pass the eye test and while they might not be 100% accurate in regards to the exact score, they're about right. I mean, Jones got a -0.5 for pass coverage and a -0.2 overall score. While that's not a positive score, it's not terrible (it's average), especially if you're of the thought that Jones was at fault for being burned for 60 yards and a TD (which you're saying he wasn't).
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  #35  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by Mexal View Post
They can be, sure. No grading system will ever be perfect unless we know exactly what each play call is, what each player responsibility is and how they were coached to accomplish those responsibilities. Since PFF does not know that, they grade with the assumption that each player is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing and they grade it individually instead of collectively.

I get your point though, but more times than not, PFF grades pass the eye test and while they might not be 100% accurate in regards to the exact score, they're about right. I mean, Jones got a -0.5 for pass coverage and a -0.2 overall score. While that's not a positive score, it's not terrible (it's average), especially if you're of the thought that Jones was at fault for being burned for 60 yards and a TD (which you're saying he wasn't).
And I acknowledged that.

I just wanted to make sure that everyone saw that quote from the Bengals homepage. PFF's rankings can't take that into account, I get that, but I just said that's why these scores ought to be taken with a grain of salt at times. Jones made the right read. It just was played wrong by those around him and it cost him on the PFF scores. Not trying to throw the whole system under the bus. Just making sure our people know that Jones, rated as a bottom 5 player, didn't deserve that low a score. He was dinged for making the correct read which is neither his nor PFF's fault.
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  #36  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Harrison is not a speed rusher
Agree.
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  #37  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

Merry Christmas Bengals fans !

All I can say is wow at Geno's and the rest of the defenses #'s. Team effort.
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  #38  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_ View Post

1. Whitworth with a +3.8. Perfect game, and positive in the run game. Shut down Harrison yet again. So, I thought he struggled against speed rushers?
Merry Christmas back at you Truck.

Sorry but I had to chuckle at this one. How they saw any positive in the run game I'm struggling to see.

Otherwise, dang what a game. D was dominant and hitting hard all day. Offense managed to do enough with zero run game.

Last edited by r3stangs; 12-25-2012 at 09:39 PM.
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  #39  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Merry Christmas back at you Truck.

Sorry but I had to chuckle at this one. How they saw any positive in the run game I'm struggling to see.

Otherwise, dang what a game. D was dominant and hitting hard all day. Offense managed to do enough with zero run game.
His grade was basically 0 meaning it was average and the reason why it was average was because the Bengals didn't run left once all game, not because Whitworth played well in the run game.
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  #40  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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His grade was basically 0 meaning it was average and the reason why it was average was because the Bengals didn't run left once all game, not because Whitworth played well in the run game.
Thank you. It was a BARELY positive grade.
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  #41  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Thank you. It was a BARELY positive grade.
Fair enough. Just amusing the words "positive" and "run game" got anywhere close to each other after that game. Just a pitiful day running the ball.
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  #42  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:25 PM
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Fair enough. Just amusing the words "positive" and "run game" got anywhere close to each other after that game. Just a pitiful day running the ball.
He was our ONLY positive guy lol.

Good Christmas to you as well.
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  #43  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

Thanks Truck. I dont comment on the PFF stuff much, but yeah I can't argue much of it. But overall the line was below average in pass-pro, but wasn't terrible.

Run blocking wise though overall, they were just downright awful. Pitt is good upfront no doubt, but not that good. Been nice to have had Robinson in there though (head-scratcher).
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  #44  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Thanks Truck. I dont comment on the PFF stuff much, but yeah I can't argue much of it. But overall the line was below average in pass-pro, but wasn't terrible.

Run blocking wise though overall, they were just downright awful. Pitt is good upfront no doubt, but not that good. Been nice to have had Robinson in there though (head-scratcher).
Hmm the whole line wasn't bad I agree but the C play was terrible. No way we can overlook how much we have back tracked since wife (I mean center) swap has started.
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  #45  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

Can't stand Kyle Cook.
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  #46  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: PFF, the Penultimate

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
First Off Merry Christmas one and all.

Now:

My Fantasy Football League disagreed with the fact Andy had a good game

Rey always ranks as our worst defender; however, or some reason folks keep saying he's playing better

My man Sims with a good score while Peko's stinking it up

Hope Paul Alexander got a lump of coal in his stocking this morning. Luckily Cook's play doesn't directly effect our OTs; unfotunately, it effects our OGs.

Can't say anything more about Geno and the DEs are impressive

We are one safety and a healthy Dre K from being an elite D backfield. 2 linebacker away from being an elite D.

Glad to see Big Dre bounce back.
Rey is playing better, when your as bad as he was the only way you could play is better ! He'd still have to improve a lot to approach avg !
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