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  #101  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
The wall of words is a migraine waiting to happen. If you want it read I suggest paragraphs and the breaking up of points.
I agree, OSU. And it is so simple. Let me do it, and we can both read.

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Originally Posted by jfkbengals View Post
No. I said he's so damn important of a factor that we lose 3 out of 4 without him.

If you were capable of interpreting those statistics, you'd see that opponents have the ability to run the ball on the Bengals when he is not in the lineup, allowing a balanced attack, the ability to control the clock, and forcing our defense to stay on the field and tire out.

If you could interpret those statistics, you'd be able to see that with Pat Sims in the lineup, we give up .64 yards less per rush than when he is inactive.

That's almost two more yards to gain after three straight rushes.

That's the difference between third and short and third and medium.

That's the difference in third and medium and third and long.

That's the difference in Atkins pinning his ears back in pass rush instead of worrying about a run fit.

That's the difference in getting off of the field so the defense can rest.

That's the difference in shutting down the run and forcing an offense to be one dimensional, thus easier to defend.

That's the difference in field position (almost 4 1st downs worth).

That's the difference in Jones having room to return a punt instead of fair catching it deep.

That's the difference in a short field for the offense.

That's the difference in points.

That's the difference in opponents trying to play catchup.

That's the difference in double teams to Geno freeing up outside rushers.

That's the difference in us leading the league in sacks.

That's the difference in the 4.5 more wins / season with him active.

That's the difference in us winning 6 out of 7 games since he returned.

That's the difference in making the playoffs three times in the 5 years since he was drafted.

I apologize. You're right. The dude adds nothing.
It seems to me that JFKBengals is making a point. There does seem to be a difference.
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  #102  
Old 12-24-2012, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by whodeydallas View Post
I agree Sims return is HUGE, but to even consider MVP with the year Geno is having....????
I agree, Geno is a one man wrecking crew, he is the teams MVP imo
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  #103  
Old 12-24-2012, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
So you guys agree. Sims makes the D line better.

That's pretty much what folks are saying.

EDIT: BTW Truck did you post the PFF numbers from the Steelers game?
I haven't been home since 9 this mm ornijg :(
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  #104  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
I have addressed the issue plenty; however, it is like talking to a brick wall. You were not a fan of Sims in the past off season and to change your stance now would be admitting you were wrong. The team thought enough of Sims to bring him back after only spending 10 days on the open market, even though he was coming off season ending injury. The team now cares enough about his play to activate him while 2 high round draft choices remain inactive.

The D is better with Pat Sims on it. Folks can choose not to see that if they want; however, they are just showing thier bias and most can plainly see it.
Yep it's obvious, but what's more obvious is an inability to admit mistakes and when you're wrong. Can you imagine working with OSU? LOL!!!
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  #105  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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I haven't been home since 9 this mm ornijg :(
You're slipping truck....lol.
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  #106  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:59 PM
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bengals Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by Wyche'sWarrior View Post
Yep it's obvious, but what's more obvious is an inability to admit mistakes and when you're wrong. Can you imagine working with OSU? LOL!!!
Don't make it personal. What would be funny would be seeing you call people out somewhere other then sitting behind a computer.

I do not agree that Sims is invaluable to this defense. You say I am wrong I say you are wrong. There have been stats thrown out that are not linked directly to Sims as there are other factors, as have been listed, that play as much a role as Sims being jn the game does.

Now if you would like to show me something concrete which does not involve any other factor then Sims then put it out there. As far as wins while he was active or inactive. Sorry there is not evidence for or against it as there are too many other variables. So if you have something concrete let's hear it. Otherwise one opinion against another.
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  #107  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Don't make it personal. What would be funny would be seeing you call people out somewhere other then sitting behind a computer.

I do not agree that Sims is invaluable to this defense. You say I am wrong I say you are wrong. There have been stats thrown out that are not linked directly to Sims as there are other factors, as have been listed, that play as much a role as Sims being jn the game does.

Now if you would like to show me something concrete which does not involve any other factor then Sims then put it out there. As far as wins while he was active or inactive. Sorry there is not evidence for or against it as there are too many other variables. So if you have something concrete let's hear it. Otherwise one opinion against another.

Oh, I didn't know you wanted concrete evidence. Like when Sims went out and played both ways the entire 60 minutes 1 vs 11 and won the game against the Patriots record setting offense. That is a plausible request....

None of the other real stats from actual games he has played in matter to you so your request is silly.
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  #108  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

My stat is, the "EYES" have it! The majority rules. I was surrounded by Steeler fans watching the game at a bar, and after Sims made a play, their jaws dropped as they all said, look at that big dude,OMG!! I guarantee Sims is a lot scarier when running at our defense, than Roland is when they are running at our O-line. He's a big, scary dude when he's in our lineup; and for some reason the defense stops the run when he's in in there, for WHATEVER reason; maybe it has nothing to do with him at all. But, for whatever reason, myself and 99 out of 100 people see the same thing, and THAT stat is all I need to buy into him. In fact, I don't care if he has anything to do with the D being better other than the fact that when he's playing they ARE better, and that's the bottom line.
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  #109  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Don't make it personal. What would be funny would be seeing you call people out somewhere other then sitting behind a computer.

I do not agree that Sims is invaluable to this defense. You say I am wrong I say you are wrong. There have been stats thrown out that are not linked directly to Sims as there are other factors, as have been listed, that play as much a role as Sims being jn the game does.

Now if you would like to show me something concrete which does not involve any other factor then Sims then put it out there. As far as wins while he was active or inactive. Sorry there is not evidence for or against it as there are too many other variables. So if you have something concrete let's hear it. Otherwise one opinion against another.
It's anecdotal evidence, but the Bengals made no real effort to sign Sims quickly in the offseason. Also, no other team did either which kind of surprised me.

Also, they drafted 2 DT's.
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  #110  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post

Now if you would like to show me something concrete which does not involve any other factor then Sims then put it out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkbengals View Post
Quit arguing it, people!

For his career (Regular Season)
INACTIVE
5-15 Record
.250 Winning Percentage
135.85 Opponent YPG Rushing
4.49 Opponent Yards Per Carry

ACTIVE
31-27-1 Record
.534 Winning Percentage
98.37 Opponent YPG Rushing
3.85 Opponent Yards Per Carry

I really don't know what else anybody could show you.

If you refuse to see it, then there is nothing anybody can do or say.
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  #111  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
It's anecdotal evidence, but the Bengals made no real effort to sign Sims quickly in the offseason.
10 days
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  #112  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
So with these stats you are trying to state that Sims is solely responsible for 31 wins? Have I got that correct.or are you stating that he is so little of a factor that when he is active that we are only 3 games over .500?
And when he is inactive, we are ten games under. You're just being ridiculous and pointlessly argumentative. It's right there in black and white. Man up, admit you're being silly and get over it. For crying out loud.
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  #113  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
It's anecdotal evidence, but the Bengals made no real effort to sign Sims quickly in the offseason. Also, no other team did either which kind of surprised me.

Also, they drafted 2 DT's.
Sims not getting signed right away in free agency shows me most teams aren't willing to pay big money to a guy who isn't healthy (Sims is worth more than Fanene or Frostee IMO and they got way more than I expected). And Sims resigned with us on one of the trendy 1 year prove it deals.

Sims getting his job back right away tells me the coaches thought he was a better option than the two rookies.

Drafting two DL tells me the team realized we lost two DL in free agency and that we thought two guys who both at one time were viewed as potential 1st round picks looked like BPA when we were on the clock in the 2nd and 3rd round of the draft.
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  #114  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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And when he is inactive, we are ten games under. You're just being ridiculous and pointlessly argumentative. It's right there in black and white. Man up, admit you're being silly and get over it. For crying out loud.
^What he said ^ X 2
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  #115  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS View Post
Sims not getting signed right away in free agency shows me most teams aren't willing to pay big money to a guy who isn't healthy (Sims is worth more than Fanene or Frostee IMO and they got way more than I expected). And Sims resigned with us on one of the trendy 1 year prove it deals.

Sims getting his job back right away tells me the coaches thought he was a better option than the two rookies.

Drafting two DL tells me the team realized we lost two DL in free agency and that we thought two guys who both at one time were viewed as potential 1st round picks looked like BPA when we were on the clock in the 2nd and 3rd round of the draft.
We lost DE's. We drafted DT's. Well Fanene could play inside and outside.

I think your 2nd paragraph nails it. Sims is much better that Still and Thompson. That explains some of the defensive boost too when he replaced them.

Same as Sanu replacing Binns/Tate. Sanu was better and our offense was performing when he played.
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  #116  
Old 12-25-2012, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
We lost DE's. We drafted DT's. Well Fanene could play inside and outside.

I think your 2nd paragraph nails it. Sims is much better that Still and Thompson. That explains some of the defensive boost too when he replaced them.

Same as Sanu replacing Binns/Tate. Sanu was better and our offense was performing when he played.
Rucker played some DT too. Both players we lost did.
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  #117  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:00 AM
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bengals Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by McC View Post
And when he is inactive, we are ten games under. You're just being ridiculous and pointlessly argumentative. It's right there in black and white. Man up, admit you're being silly and get over it. For crying out loud.
Silly is thinking a backup player turns and entire defense around. There is nothing back and white with those stats as far as his correlation to wins. I am sure we could look at a season and who was active and inactive for wins and so forth and draw all kinds of inaccurate conclusions.

Was he a better option than Still or Thompson when he got healthy? I would sure hope he was since he is a relatively young vet. Does that mean he is going to be the best option next season? We will see if the staff thinks so when FA rolls around.

If he is back I think it is great for the team. That will mean we are going to have one heck of a battle to fill the spots behind Geno and Domata and that is a good thing. If Sims beats out Still or Thompson then again that is great for the team. I have no ill will against Sims I just to not see him as invaluable to this team.
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  #118  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:20 AM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

Folks,
if you can't stop the run, MJ and the rest of pass rushing stats go out the door.
He is but a piece of the puzzle, and a very important piece.
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  #119  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:01 AM
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bengals Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by Goose View Post
Folks,
if you can't stop the run, MJ and the rest of pass rushing stats go out the door.
He is but a piece of the puzzle, and a very important piece.
I agree he is a piece of the puzzle. I agree stopping the run is vitally important. What I think some fail to realize is that Geno is second in the NFL when it comes to stop % on run snaps played.

That is a concrete factor.
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  #120  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Lets give props to Patrick Sims

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
So what your saying is with a degenerative knee issue Fanene got more outside interest than Sims did. Face it the league does not put the value on Sims that some on these boards do. Getting past denial is the first step.
And the Pats cut him very quickly and he hasn't gotten any interest elsewhere has he? The Pats are always willing to take a flyer on players, i.e. Haynesworth, Chad, Fanene, Winslow, etc. You getting past your own arrogance, sense of self worth, and stupidity would be a great first step for you.
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  #121  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by jfkbengals View Post
Quit arguing it, people!

For his career (Regular Season)
INACTIVE
5-15 Record
.250 Winning Percentage
135.85 Opponent YPG Rushing
4.49 Opponent Yards Per Carry

ACTIVE
31-27-1 Record
.534 Winning Percentage
98.37 Opponent YPG Rushing
3.85 Opponent Yards Per Carry
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfine32 View Post
I really don't know what else anybody could show you.

If you refuse to see it, then there is nothing anybody can do or say.
Sims played all 8 games of an 8-game losing streak in 2010, during which we set an NFL record for consecutive games giving up at least 1 rushing play of 20+ yards. So, even if those numbers are correct, 2010 still shows that being a good run D is a lot more complicated than simply having Sims suited up.

Last edited by Ryan Mc; 12-25-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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  #122  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Silly is thinking a backup player turns and entire defense around. There is nothing back and white with those stats as far as his correlation to wins. I am sure we could look at a season and who was active and inactive for wins and so forth and draw all kinds of inaccurate conclusions.

Was he a better option than Still or Thompson when he got healthy? I would sure hope he was since he is a relatively young vet. Does that mean he is going to be the best option next season? We will see if the staff thinks so when FA rolls around.

If he is back I think it is great for the team. That will mean we are going to have one heck of a battle to fill the spots behind Geno and Domata and that is a good thing. If Sims beats out Still or Thompson then again that is great for the team. I have no ill will against Sims I just to not see him as invaluable to this team.
Whatever. I might as well be talking to the wall.
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  #123  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:23 PM
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bengals Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
Sims played all 8 games of an 8-game losing streak in 2010, during which we set an NFL record for consecutive games giving up at least 1 rushing play of 20+ yards. So, even if those numbers are correct, 2010 still shows that being a good run D is a lot more complicated than simply having Sims suited up.
Amen!
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  #124  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:26 PM
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bengals Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Whatever. I might as well be talking to the wall.
That could go both ways now couldn't it. Why do you feel I must agree with you? We see it differently and it appears I am not alone in my feelings. The same guy could have been performing Gatorade duties during those games. It does not mean he made an impact on anything.
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  #125  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Why Pat Sims is the unsung MVP

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
it appears I am not alone in my feelings..
Who else has said Pat Sims does not help this D?
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