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  #26  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

Are you going to start a thread about AJ's bad hands too?
Because he has been crap of late.
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  #27  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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  #28  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

Something to add to the discussion is the fact that Dalton has been sacked 20 more times this year as he was last year (44 to 24).

And we still have the Ravens to play.

We could conceivably give up twice the sacks this year as last year.

Now, granted some of those sacks are just coverage sacks and Andy Dalton has kind of regressed in terms of getting rid of the ball when there's no where to go and no one to throw it to.

But overall, this team has struggled mightily in protecting Dalton.

We have had a lot of instability at Center. First, we had Faine who was easily the worst center we've ever had.
Then we played with Robinson, who struggled at first. Then as soon as he began to hit his stride and mesh well with the line, we replace and start rotating with Cook, who obviously isn't 100% healthy right now.

Add to that a young, but promising, RG making your typical rookie mistakes and a 2nd year LG who was never intended to start this year.

Dalton has gone through a lot and hopefully we fix this line over the off season. But right now, we just need to hope they hold up well enough for us to win AT LEAST 1 game in the playoffs.
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  #29  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

If you want his catch % to go up do not throw 40 yard bombs when we just need 10 yards.The o line also has an impact on this.The reason we drafted him was because he was so accurate throwing the ball remember the espn sports science show about Andy he was the highest ever rated on that show on accuracy.Green made Dalton bombs something the media loved last year they loved saying Dalton to Green on the deep ball.But everyone and thier brother was talking about his arm strenght so we are forcing a lot of deep balls this year when we should be taking 20 yard chunks where he excells at not the 40 yard bombs he struggles throwing.Use the players strenght to his advantage do not try to make him do something he is not comfortable with.
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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From what I can see, it's mostly footwork. The best passes he made is when he stepped through the pocket and stepped into his throw. A large majority of Dalton's deep passes come without him truly stepping into the throw. I think that's why they lack the touch...that and he doesn't put enough air on it.
The reason he can not step up in the pocket is because he has a center named Cook in his lap.
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  #31  
Old 12-26-2012, 04:31 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

First 12 games- 63.5% completions, 7.40 ypa, 23 tds, 11 ints, 94.0 passer rating

Last 4 games- 59.0% completions, 5.91 ypa, 3 tds, 5 ints, 68.1 passer rating

The anti-Dalton cavalry are always looking for some fatal flaw that proves Andy will never be a good starting QB. There is no such thing. I'm not saying Dalton is flawless. I don't even think he's top-10, but the dude was producing near-elite numbers up until a few games ago.

So anyone with common sense would try to connect the dots and figure out reasons for Andy's slide, instead of using it as ammunition, saying "derp, I told you he sukked!".

1) We haven't had a viable #2 all season, other than when Sanu was starting. Early in the season we got away with it because Hawkins was playing a big role. Teams started to take Hawkins away though. Around that time, Sanu stepped in and became a legit #2, but then he got hurt. Now we're down to Marvin Jones, who I regarded as a bit of a project before the season. Teams are bracketing coverage on AJ and contesting every pass that comes his way, so not having a viable #2 is killing us. All the pressure is squarely on Andy and AJ. AJ's performance has suffered lately as well (by his standards). He has to be frustrated lately, with all the added coverage he's getting.

2) 3 different centers this year, then a rotation, now back to Cook. In 3 games since Cook started playing again, Dalton has been sacked 17 times (5.7 per game). In the previous 4 games with Robinson playing exclusively, Dalton was only sacked 5 times (1.3 per game). Not all of that is on Cook, but a lot of it is. Cook got owned in the Steelers game.

The difference in Dalton's play lately is obvious through watching the games and looking at the numbers. The reasons why he's not playing well lately seem obvious to me, and to be quite honest I think he played a solid game last Sunday, considering he threw for 278 against the #1 defense in the league with the worst game by a Bengals RB since 2000. Kinda hard to sustain drives and pass the football when your RB has 15 carries for 14 yards.
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  #32  
Old 12-26-2012, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

I was watching Daltons TCU highlights and something I noticed is he had a great pump fake and used it often. In the NFL he very rarely pump fakes. This falls back on Zampese imo. The same guy that let Carson (and let's Dalton) get away with that horribly unconvincing play action fake. Can we get rid of this guy already? The longest tenure he had outside of the Bengals was with the Rams for 3 seasons and he's been with this team since 2003. *cringes* We should've booted this guy out the door alongside Bratkowski. I feel a better QB coach would have Dalton performing more respectably and some of his struggles could've been avoided.
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  #33  
Old 12-26-2012, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

I think Daltons throws have been fairly good... Including some fantastic ones. There have just been to many drops and fumbles by receivers. Mistakes have been creeping into AJ's game (although he did complete the big play against the stoolers to get us to FG range). Gresham, Hawkins among others have dropped balls they should have tucked away.

On Sunday, AJ's fumble was of note. His catch in the end-zone was class and watching it over and over again, I'm still not convinced that his heel came down OOB.

On another note that someone may be able to help me with... I was confused by the turn-over against the Stoolers, where they batted the ball back into play to turn it over... Surely the Stoolers player who batted it back into play must still be in active play himself? I would have thought that this player would have had to get both feet in play after batting the ball (they clearly didn't). Any explanation would be most appreciated.

Last edited by ScottishBengal; 12-26-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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  #34  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
I was watching Daltons TCU highlights and something I noticed is he had a great pump fake and used it often. In the NFL he very rarely pump fakes. This falls back on Zampese imo. The same guy that let Carson (and let's Dalton) get away with that horribly unconvincing play action fake. Can we get rid of this guy already? The longest tenure he had outside of the Bengals was with the Rams for 3 seasons and he's been with this team since 2003. *cringes* We should've booted this guy out the door alongside Bratkowski. I feel a better QB coach would have Dalton performing more respectably and some of his struggles could've been avoided.
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  #35  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

I don't understand making this thread after the Pittsburgh game. He actually played pretty well depsite his numbers and had pretty beautifuly placed balls that his receivers just didn't come down with. That 4th n 22 I think was a pretty good placed ball that just wasn't caught by a **** hair. The deep ball to AJ was pretty spot on too down the middle of the field but AJ just couldn't find it. There were others but you get the point.
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  #36  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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It just seems like this year his accuracy on mid-deep sideline throws has been worse. Those throws haven't come back to haunt him (the pick six throws were shorter), but they're just missed opportunities. I have confidence that he won't miss those throws in the playoffs.
That mid deep sideline throw to AJ with 14 seconds left to get into field goal position was awful Sunday, LOL
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  #37  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:32 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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That mid deep sideline throw to AJ with 14 seconds left to get into field goal position was awful Sunday, LOL
i am just a avid fan like all of you,but i totally agree that our qb is leaving alot of points on the field because of overthrows, which he has done most of the season, it seems like he is not getting any better at this.one would question is it something he cannot figure out, can't do any better at, or he not getting proper coaching?? but he MUST get better at this in the playoffs or we are toast. you cannot leave top plays out there and expect to win.i do not see him getting that much better in a short time.something about him allows me to question his learning skills. whit mentioned that andy always wants to be right and doesn't want to listen to anyone.likes to be right all the time.i get it that you do not want to underthrow passes as he was questioned so much during training camp by the media about not having a strong arm to throw deep, which is stupid.he has shown everyone he can drill it deep. now he has to practice on his accuracy.someone said they are working on that as we speak, that he is trying this week in practice to get better.we shall see as they say.by the way that is a very hard throw for any qb, to hit a receiver in full speed. if he gets it down a little better, it could mean the difference in a win or loss.i am pulling for him to get it right, as he so wants to win.
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  #38  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:39 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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The reason he can not step up in the pocket is because he has a center named Cook in his lap.
hopefully, if its the qb coach, they will go out and get a top-notch qb coach and get him in here.i know marvin realizes its something they need to work on as it was addressed and jay gruden said they would be working on that in practice this week.lets all hope they are inside somewhere, because as i sit here typing its a pickin bear outside with the winter weather. snow and all that, plus a big time wind storm.hope the game sells out.andys numbers have went down i my opinion because he is facing better defenses last few games and i for one am not sold on cook being the better center. i really like the trevor robinson guy, but we shall see.a rotation of both is probably good to keep them fresher.
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  #39  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:45 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Are you going to start a thread about AJ's bad hands too?
Because he has been crap of late.
A.J. GREEN has not lived up to the type lately, and perhaps he is listening to the press too much with all the praise and crap.i do not like to hear all of that about being the number 1 receiver all the time.he needs to focus more on his job.he has let the team down alot lately, i know he is getting the pressure every game.lets hope he steps up this sunday. i have watched the dirty birds play last few games and they are super good on offense and have great players in all the skill positions. they will be hard to whip if are defense doesn't play like they did against the stoolers.i want our guys to whip the crap out of them. i still am seething about that monday night game.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:57 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Originally Posted by Mexal View Post
From what I can see, it's mostly footwork. The best passes he made is when he stepped through the pocket and stepped into his throw. A large majority of Dalton's deep passes come without him truly stepping into the throw. I think that's why they lack the touch...that and he doesn't put enough air on it.
he had better get it together as it will all ride on your quarterback to make a play. the great ones do that.also what would help him is a pickin running game.the law firm and this 0-line cannot get it done.its terrible and will hurt us in the playoffs. the law firm is okay, but he is not a great runner. we need that. i have been saying for 8 games, bring BOOM HERRON in some and allow him to carry the rock. this guy can fly and he has good vison. he if ever gets a chance to practice with the ones and play enough to get a rhythm going, he can bring it.i am a huge ohio state fan as well. i am telling you this coaching staff doesn't give players that they draft enough attention. marvin gets locked onto guys and forgets about the rooks until the season is about over. he is bad about that.
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  #41  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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he can be inaccurate at times but its to be expected when our wr corp isn't really anything to brag about outside of aj. The problems i have with him the most standing in the pocket waaaaaay too long and leaving too many plays on the field. I'm not hating, i love that he's been the leader thats taken this team to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Here's to him cleaning things up a bit and a deep playoff run!

well said.
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  #42  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Dalton overthrows guys way too much. I really wish the guy could find the confidence or a ility to drop the ball right in there to the receiver. He's getting a lot of great opportunities on this great Bengals team. He needs to just be able to take full advantage of it and put it all together in the playoffs. I hope this is where he goes out and earns his keep. If everyone can collectively keep getting better and better throughout the playoffs this team has a great chance to win. They can't lose sight and focus of what got them there in the first place.
This is another stupid thread.....Carson, Ocho and TO led this team to 4 wins in 2010. The Dynamic Duo were less than dynamic......Then Carson left, and it looked like the team would struggle with a rookie quarterback because the history of the NFL is most teams struggle with a rookie quarterback.....Many fans predicted 0-16 in 2011 or at best, another 4-12.......but AJ Green and Andy Dalton came in and immediatly played better than Carson and Chad in 2010. ......Andy Dalton put in alot of work and quarterbacked the Bengals from 4-10 in 2010 to being in the play-offs in his rookie year in 2011. .....Andy Dalton then became the only Bengals quarterback beside Ken Anderson to lead the Bengals to back to back play-off seasons. .......Yes, Nelson intercepted the ball against Pittsburg with little time left, but we were way out of field goal range at the 45. The pass Dalton made to Green was perfect on both of their parts against a tough Steelers D, and without it, we don't win the game in regulation. .....Only Dan Marino and Peyton Manning have put up as many or more touchdowns as Dalton in their first 2 years. .....

It's amazing that after Dalton quarterbacked this team to back to back play-offs his first 2 years, that threads such as " Daltons inaccuracy" would appear....but maybe not amazing considering the constant negativity on Bengals.com ...and the fact that Jungle Noise, which says it is " for Bengals fans only ", seems to have alot of trools and people that just aren't fans of the Bengals. Putting the team down in every form or way possible is not being a fan, and if you are not happy after this Pittsburg win and Christmas, you will never ever never like the Bengals ....so this is another stupid thread.

Those who posted positive threads this season were called stupid and front runners and nobody complained.

Those who post negative threads all season were considered a right to their opinion and realistic and wise.

but I will say such a thread after beating Pittsburg for back to back play-offs is just out and out stupid
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  #43  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:14 AM
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Turd starts a thread and then vanishes. Ya'll just got trolled.
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  #44  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Are you going to start a thread about AJ's bad hands too?
Because he has been crap of late.
Truth. AJ and Gresh drops have to account for at least a 5-10% decrease in AD's completion rate.

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Something to add to the discussion is the fact that Dalton has been sacked 20 more times this year as he was last year (44 to 24).

And we still have the Ravens to play.

We could conceivably give up twice the sacks this year as last year.

Now, granted some of those sacks are just coverage sacks and Andy Dalton has kind of regressed in terms of getting rid of the ball when there's no where to go and no one to throw it to.

But overall, this team has struggled mightily in protecting Dalton.

We have had a lot of instability at Center. First, we had Faine who was easily the worst center we've ever had.
Then we played with Robinson, who struggled at first. Then as soon as he began to hit his stride and mesh well with the line, we replace and start rotating with Cook, who obviously isn't 100% healthy right now.

Add to that a young, but promising, RG making your typical rookie mistakes and a 2nd year LG who was never intended to start this year.

Dalton has gone through a lot and hopefully we fix this line over the off season. But right now, we just need to hope they hold up well enough for us to win AT LEAST 1 game in the playoffs.
Pass Pro has been horrid at times this year. I've said that repeatedly. It was actually quite good at times Sunday. I was a bit surprised by that.

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
First 12 games- 63.5% completions, 7.40 ypa, 23 tds, 11 ints, 94.0 passer rating

Last 4 games- 59.0% completions, 5.91 ypa, 3 tds, 5 ints, 68.1 passer rating

The anti-Dalton cavalry are always looking for some fatal flaw that proves Andy will never be a good starting QB. There is no such thing. I'm not saying Dalton is flawless. I don't even think he's top-10, but the dude was producing near-elite numbers up until a few games ago.

So anyone with common sense would try to connect the dots and figure out reasons for Andy's slide, instead of using it as ammunition, saying "derp, I told you he sukked!".

1) We haven't had a viable #2 all season, other than when Sanu was starting. Early in the season we got away with it because Hawkins was playing a big role. Teams started to take Hawkins away though. Around that time, Sanu stepped in and became a legit #2, but then he got hurt. Now we're down to Marvin Jones, who I regarded as a bit of a project before the season. Teams are bracketing coverage on AJ and contesting every pass that comes his way, so not having a viable #2 is killing us. All the pressure is squarely on Andy and AJ. AJ's performance has suffered lately as well (by his standards). He has to be frustrated lately, with all the added coverage he's getting.

2) 3 different centers this year, then a rotation, now back to Cook. In 3 games since Cook started playing again, Dalton has been sacked 17 times (5.7 per game). In the previous 4 games with Robinson playing exclusively, Dalton was only sacked 5 times (1.3 per game). Not all of that is on Cook, but a lot of it is. Cook got owned in the Steelers game.

The difference in Dalton's play lately is obvious through watching the games and looking at the numbers. The reasons why he's not playing well lately seem obvious to me, and to be quite honest I think he played a solid game last Sunday, considering he threw for 278 against the #1 defense in the league with the worst game by a Bengals RB since 2000. Kinda hard to sustain drives and pass the football when your RB has 15 carries for 14 yards.
Come on Shake, AD stinks, we need to cut the bum!!!

Great post (except I wouldn't blame BJGE for the poor running numbers. The run blocking was aweful Sunday.) Who Dey!
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Originally Posted by BengalzHacker View Post
Truth. AJ and Gresh drops have to account for at least a 5-10% decrease in AD's completion rate.



Pass Pro has been horrid at times this year. I've said that repeatedly. It was actually quite good at times Sunday. I was a bit surprised by that.



Come on Shake, AD stinks, we need to cut the bum!!!

Great post (except I wouldn't blame BJGE for the poor running numbers. The run blocking was aweful Sunday.) Who Dey!
That's what happens when you face the #1 Defense in the league though. (#2 in Rush D)
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  #46  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Originally Posted by james1081c View Post
Dalton overthrows guys way too much. I really wish the guy could find the confidence or a ility to drop the ball right in there to the receiver. He's getting a lot of great opportunities on this great Bengals team. He needs to just be able to take full advantage of it and put it all together in the playoffs. I hope this is where he goes out and earns his keep. If everyone can collectively keep getting better and better throughout the playoffs this team has a great chance to win. They can't lose sight and focus of what got them there in the first place.
I agree... but, just to clarify a little.

Dalton does have accuracy... His problem is when he attempts any throw longer than 40-45 yards. That's when Dalton loses his touch and overthrows. Although he has plenty of explosive plays of 40+ yards throwing, his attempts were shorter with YAC, or under thrown but caught with no YAC. Green was wide open but had to stop and wait for the ball to get to him.

Sanu had the best deep ball against the Redskins.. in stride. Dalton with blown coverage against the Giants.. Green had to stop running and wait for the ball to get to him.

Dalton has enough arm strength, but when he forces long balls, that's when we cross our fingers and pray that Green is near to make the catch.
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  #47  
Old 12-26-2012, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Originally Posted by BengalzHacker View Post
Truth. AJ and Gresh drops have to account for at least a 5-10% decrease in AD's completion rate.



Pass Pro has been horrid at times this year. I've said that repeatedly. It was actually quite good at times Sunday. I was a bit surprised by that.



Come on Shake, AD stinks, we need to cut the bum!!!

Great post (except I wouldn't blame BJGE for the poor running numbers. The run blocking was aweful Sunday.) Who Dey!
Pass pro has only been horrid on occassion. Dalton has held the ball way too long at times.
As for BJGE and the run game, get a RB who can hit a cut back lane.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Pass pro has only been horrid on occassion. Dalton has held the ball way too long at times.
As for BJGE and the run game, get a RB who can hit a cut back lane.
That's where a lot of guys get a lot of big runs.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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That's where a lot of guys get a lot of big runs.
Interestingly enough, BJGE has done better at that the last 5 or 6 games (minus Pitt). That's why the running game started to click all of a sudden.

Still, we need a bit more speed back there. When BJGE is decisive, he's a much better runner than when he's not sure where to go which is what we saw this past week.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Dalton's inaccuracy.

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Pass pro has only been horrid on occassion. Dalton has held the ball way too long at times.
As for BJGE and the run game, get a RB who can hit a cut back lane.
If you're insinuating that the majority of our sacks are on Dalton, I would have to disagree.

If I were to estimate, I would say 1/5th of the sacks are on Dalton, max.

On some of these plays where people claim Dalton is holding on too long, he is either waiting for the routes to develop, or no one is open.

Last year people complained that he was throwing it away too quickly. Now that he's waiting (and taking sacks because the pass pro is weak) people are griping that he takes too long.

It's not all on Dalton, I promise.
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