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  #1  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:04 PM
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Default Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

I know it's not how the WCO works, but why don't we ever send AJ deep, just have Dalton lob the ball up, and tell AJ to go get it?

I'm not comparing AJ to Randy Moss, but does anybody remember Moss with the Vikings? That's all they did! Moss would either outrun people or just jump over them to catch deep balls.

AJ's 6'4, most corners are 5'10 or 5'11, and most safeties are between 6'0 and 6'2, so I like his chances!
You could say the safety has a running start, but hitting AJ in stride would allow him to have a running start, too.

Can anybody tell me why we don't do that?
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

The Bengals should do more fades to Green. I haven't seen it go negative for the Bengals yet. Green is just perfect for that type of play. I'm surprised the Bengals don't do it more once near the goal.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

They go deep with him ALOT but its so predictable when were gonna try it and Dalton usually doesnt put it in optimal position.

But as far as fades in the endzone yeah we need to do that more. We are like the only team with an AJ Green calibur WR that doesnt do that.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

I agree with this. We are overthrowing AJ on these deep balls, and i like AJ's chances if some of these were underthrown vs overthrown
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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Originally Posted by Housh View Post
They go deep with him ALOT but its so predictable when were gonna try it .
This whole predictable thing is just ridiculously cliche. I'm sure it was predictable on 3rd and 1 last week when we only needed a first down to get into a legit field goal range to win the game and we threw it deep....
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

agree but I can also ask these questions.....

why dont we run screens?

why dont we have gimmick plays for Baby Hawk?

why do we rotate centers?

why is Nugent still on the roster?

why cant Marvin manage the game clock/timeouts?

There are a ton of things we question, most we will never know the answer to!
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:35 PM
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bengals Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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agree but I can also ask these questions.....

why dont we run screens?

why dont we have gimmick plays for Baby Hawk?

why do we rotate centers?

why is Nugent still on the roster?

why cant Marvin manage the game clock/timeouts?

There are a ton of things we question, most we will never know the answer to!
This
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

Usually the jump ball is Andy's bail out play. If no one is open Andy is going to wing it. I've noticed every time Andy throws the deep ball Aj always has his man beat but Andy can never put it where it needs to be. I'm not bashing Andy but he has no deep ball accuracy. Aj could have about 3 or 4 more td's this year if Andy knew how to throw it...If you watch him throw a deep ball it looks like he's just winging it and hoping it's going to be on the money.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
Usually the jump ball is Andy's bail out play. If no one is open Andy is going to wing it. I've noticed every time Andy throws the deep ball Aj always has his man beat but Andy can never put it where it needs to be. I'm not bashing Andy but he has no deep ball accuracy. Aj could have about 3 or 4 more td's this year if Andy knew how to throw it...If you watch him throw a deep ball it looks like he's just winging it and hoping it's going to be on the money.
3-4 more TDS and about 200 more yards!
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
Usually the jump ball is Andy's bail out play. If no one is open Andy is going to wing it. I've noticed every time Andy throws the deep ball Aj always has his man beat but Andy can never put it where it needs to be. I'm not bashing Andy but he has no deep ball accuracy. Aj could have about 3 or 4 more td's this year if Andy knew how to throw it...If you watch him throw a deep ball it looks like he's just winging it and hoping it's going to be on the money.
What I'm saying is let Andy just wing it but put more air under it because I'd take AJ in a jump ball over a shorter corner or safety any day of the week, especially when they have to turn and locate the ball.

The advantage goes to AJ.
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Originally Posted by Housh View Post
They go deep with him ALOT but its so predictable when were gonna try it and Dalton usually doesnt put it in optimal position.

But as far as fades in the endzone yeah we need to do that more. We are like the only team with an AJ Green calibur WR that doesnt do that.
-Three 21-30 yards
-Three 31-40
-Three 41+


That's roughly two a game, and I've seen him launch a few deep but none where AJ can just go outjump someone.

Example
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:24 PM
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bengals Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?



More chances for AJ is never a bad thing. The guy is great at adjusting to the ball in mid air.

BTW, why don't we start Robinson over Cook at Center is my biggest question right now.

We were decent on Offense when Robinson was starting.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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Originally Posted by bradfritz21 View Post
What I'm saying is let Andy just wing it but put more air under it because I'd take AJ in a jump ball over a shorter corner or safety any day of the week, especially when they have to turn and locate the ball.

The advantage goes to AJ.


-Three 21-30 yards
-Three 31-40
-Three 41+


That's roughly two a game, and I've seen him launch a few deep but none where AJ can just go outjump someone.

Example

Aj would win a jump ball battle and he will beat people deep with his speed. I kind of agree though, i'd much rather see Andy under throw it and give Aj a chance than over throw it and give Aj no chance at all...Andy's deep ball is frustrating because they are blown opportunity's for a big play.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
Usually the jump ball is Andy's bail out play. If no one is open Andy is going to wing it. I've noticed every time Andy throws the deep ball Aj always has his man beat but Andy can never put it where it needs to be. I'm not bashing Andy but he has no deep ball accuracy. Aj could have about 3 or 4 more td's this year if Andy knew how to throw it...If you watch him throw a deep ball it looks like he's just winging it and hoping it's going to be on the money.
I'm not bashing you, but were you watching the Steelers game?

Andy threw a couple very accurate deep passes to AJ, but AJ was tightly covered.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
I'm not bashing you, but were you watching the Steelers game?

Andy threw a couple very accurate deep passes to AJ, but AJ was tightly covered.
I never miss a game. I also have every game recorded. He over threw a couple, & i can tell by Aj's facial expressions he's thinking "Damnit Andy".


After this season is over Andy needs to go work with Aj on the deep ball and Andy needs to set a trashcan in the endzone and throw from 30 & 40 yards out every day until he learns how to put it where he wants it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

I don't think there's a lack of trying. I don't know for sure what you specifically have in mind with "jump" ball, but there were at least five bombs deep to AJ that I can remember just in the last game:

-first drive, but AJ was cut off by Polamalu (should have been PI in my opinion)
-a bomb down the sideline which went through AJ's hands as he attempted an over-the-should catch
-the PI call right before AJ's fumble... AJ had the defender beat in single coverage and the defender did the smart thing and just grabbed AJ and gave up the PI instead of allowing the long TD
-the 4th-and-22 play, where AJ did outjump the defender for the ball, but unfortunately landed his second foot on the line
-the late 3rd-and-1 bomb where Dalton was too long and outside of Green

So, like I said, it's not like we aren't looking for opportunities to take shots deep to AJ, but you can't do it when there's a safety back there, only when there's single coverage. And, when we get that chance, for a variety of reasons we're just not connecting them at the moment.

Edit: ...and, I was even forgetting the 3rd down play before we tried the 56-yard FG, which truly was just a heave up the sideline to AJ in single coverage (unfortunately overthrown by Andy)

Last edited by Ryan Mc; 12-27-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

If Andy is on the mark with AJ, I think the fade is unstoppable.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

Daunte Culpepper ran a similar offense...



But when the team is one dimensional, it's not tough to stop...
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Mc View Post
I don't think there's a lack of trying. I don't know for sure what you specifically have in mind with "jump" ball, but there were at least five bombs deep to AJ that I can remember just in the last game:
Check the video that I posted, but that's not even a good example.

A jump ball is when a receiver goes deep, the quarterback just throws it up, the receiver doesn't have the defensive back beat, so it just becomes jumping up and catching the ball at its highest point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
Daunte Culpepper ran a similar offense...
That's exactly what I mean, and don't base our offense off of it, but just every so often do it because it's the chance for a big play and it keeps the safety back to try and stop it, which it's still almost impossible to stop.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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Originally Posted by bradfritz21 View Post
Check the video that I posted, but that's not even a good example.

A jump ball is when a receiver goes deep, the quarterback just throws it up, the receiver doesn't have the defensive back beat, so it just becomes jumping up and catching the ball at its highest point...
OK, we still attempted at least four of those on Sunday, it's just that all four were overthrown. It's not lack of trying, it's execution. There needs to be more air under the ball or thrown shorter so that AJ has a shot at it ... the balls just thrown up the sideline for AJ were all too long on Sunday.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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OK, we still attempted at least four of those on Sunday, it's just that all four were overthrown. It's not lack of trying, it's execution. There needs to be more air under the ball or thrown shorter so that AJ has a shot at it ... the balls just thrown up the sideline for AJ were all too long on Sunday.
That's simply not true. Andy threw at least 2 of those sideline routes very accurately, and AJ was just well covered.

Also, that's not even what the OP is talking about. He's basically talking about hail Mary type jump balls.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

Because you can't catch jump balls out of bounds.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
That's simply not true. Andy threw at least 2 of those sideline routes very accurately, and AJ was just well covered.

Also, that's not even what the OP is talking about. He's basically talking about hail Mary type jump balls.
No, I don't think that's what we're talking about, since no offense in the history of the league has included regular Hail-Mary type jump balls. We're talking exactly about throwing the ball up to AJ down the sideline when he is very well covered and letting him make a play for the ball .. exactly the kind of play you're referring to in your second sentence. Andy overthrew four of those that I can remember ... see my post #15 ...but OK on one AJ was slowed by PI, so make it three overthrows.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

There are a number of things we tend not to do that make life harder on the offense.

1) No real deception plays.

2) No real attempts to get the ball to the outside on run plays.

3) Lack of jump balls to AJ in the endzone (back when Pickens was on the team this was a staple - it was called "quick dancer").

4) No designed rollouts. With the interior pass blocking issues this should be a regular element.

5) No real attempts to spread out the opposing defense.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

You can't throw jump balls when the S is ALWAYS over top
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:35 AM
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Default Re: Why Don't We Throw Jump Balls to AJ?

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You can't throw jump balls when the S is ALWAYS over top
True enough, although there is a larger point that we are not doing anything to use scheme to compensate for the lack of RB speed and interior pass blocking issues.
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