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Old 12-29-2012, 04:56 PM
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Default 2005 vs 2011/2012

I have seen quite a few people say that this team is all around more solid than the 2005 playoff team due to our defense being "better".

I think you're all wrong.

In 2005 this team had a defense set up perfectly for the offense we ran. Our offense was a quick striking group that could put up 3 touchdowns in the blink of an eye and our defense was fantastic at creating turn overs when other teams became frantic trying to mount a comeback. It reminds me of how a snake eats it's prey, first injecting it with venom that breaks down the body's mass so that it can swallow it whole.

this team may be better as whole but until the yin can balance the yang I just don't see us going far.

With that said I do like Andy more than Carson, AJ more than Chad, and will be rooting for this team in the playoffs (hoping I am wrong).
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

'05 > '11/'12. The 2005 team was freakin scary!
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

You're right, but this defense is more solid overall. And great defense is what wins games this time of year. Not as flashy and fun as Carson w/Chad, TJ, and (Rest In Peace) Slim, but it may give us a shot.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

I think that when this team clicks, there aren't many teams in the league that can keep up.

Having said that, this team needs to win a playoff game to prove that they are even the same caliber as a squad like the '05 team (beating the Ratbirds would be nice too..)
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by Lawless_1 View Post

In 2005 this team had a defense set up perfectly for the offense we ran. Our offense was a quick striking group that could put up 3 touchdowns in the blink of an eye and our defense was fantastic at creating turn overs...
All true, but...

...the 2005 Cincinnati defense got gashed against the run. Yes, Deltha O'Neal and Tory James pulled down a lot of interceptions -- including five against Brett Favre and Daunte Culpepper -- but they didn't generate a large number of sacks, they were very vulnerable against medium length passes and, just as I said, they couldn't stop the run.

The 2005 Cincinnati offense was terrific but I prefer the 2009/11/12 defenses.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

we had zero pass rush and couldnt stop the run...thats completely flipped now...this D is way better and i dont think its close...ill take this D and its pass rush and constantly making teams punt lets not forget its basically a turnover if we stop them 3 downs and make em punt
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

the point im trying to make is we never really could get a team off the field with the 05 D...if we didnt get a INT the team usually went down and atleast scored a FG...everygame was basically a shootout...id much rather have a D who can go out and win a game for us if we need (like last weekend) 05 we didnt have that
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

You're missing my point.

What was great about the 2005 squad was the offense was unstoppable and did exactly what was needed to force our opponents into playing into the strength of our defense.

We don't have that now. Our weaknesses are more scattered and teams are able to play into them more easily (for example short out routes and option plays kill us)
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by bengaljunky86 View Post
the point im trying to make is we never really could get a team off the field with the 05 D...if we didnt get a INT the team usually went down and atleast scored a FG...everygame was basically a shootout...id much rather have a D who can go out and win a game for us if we need (like last weekend) 05 we didnt have that
For the first 15 games this season we have scored 55 points more than our opponents. Through the first 15 games of 2005 we outscored our opponents by 103 points (albeit we lost 37-3 in the last game) so your idea that the way we were set up in 2005 made every game "basically a shootout" is ridiculous.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by Lawless_1 View Post
For the first 15 games this season we have scored 55 points more than our opponents. Through the first 15 games of 2005 we outscored our opponents by 103 points (albeit we lost 37-3 in the last game) so your idea that the way we were set up in 2005 made every game "basically a shootout" is ridiculous.
when a team is behind its forced to throw the ball to play catch up and thats what created the TOs and thats why you like the 05 D better...i think thats what your saying...and that was my whole shootout point...wheather the score indicated it or not teams were playing from behind and had to throw the ball and we benefited i get that but i still beleive this D is better as far as a whole unit and doing more than creating TOs we are great at getting to qb we can stop the run and our DBs have gotten alot better at playing the pass...its just my opinion man but id rather have this D lol
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

So we all agree the current defense is better, right? You can argue the 05 defense was better because of the offense making teams play to their strength, but at the end of the year the 2012 defense stopped the opposing offense more than that 05 defense ever did. And that is with a terrible start to this season.

At the very least, I'm gonna say I'm more comfortable with the current defense preserving a lead in a game such as the Superbowl and stopping an elite offense when it counts more than that 05 defense.

Last edited by flyinryan; 12-29-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by Lawless_1 View Post
I have seen quite a few people say that this team is all around more solid than the 2005 playoff team due to our defense being "better".

I think you're all wrong.

In 2005 this team had a defense set up perfectly for the offense we ran. Our offense was a quick striking group that could put up 3 touchdowns in the blink of an eye and our defense was fantastic at creating turn overs when other teams became frantic trying to mount a comeback. It reminds me of how a snake eats it's prey, first injecting it with venom that breaks down the body's mass so that it can swallow it whole.

this team may be better as whole but until the yin can balance the yang I just don't see us going far.

With that said I do like Andy more than Carson, AJ more than Chad, and will be rooting for this team in the playoffs (hoping I am wrong).
I do not agree at all.
Our Offense had to score 3 touchdowns in a blink of an eye because even with the turnovers our Offense had to put up over 30pts a game to win. our defense was horrid in 05 period.

If the turnovers were not there we were doomed.

Ill take holding the opp to under 20pts a game any day over relying on Turnovers.


just my 2 cents
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by JungleJuice View Post
I do not agree at all.
Our Offense had to score 3 touchdowns in a blink of an eye because even with the turnovers our Offense had to put up over 30pts a game to win. our defense was horrid in 05 period.

If the turnovers were not there we were doomed.

Ill take holding the opp to under 20pts a game any day over relying on Turnovers.


just my 2 cents
Really?

So you dismiss the turnovers just that easily to make your point?

That is like taking away the sacks from this squad....

The point is our offense in 2005 made teams throw the ball into our league leading intercepting secondary to keep up. Our defense was perfect for our offense that carried the whole team.

Our current offense meddles around causing opponents to do so which leads to us being gashed by screen passes and intermediate out patterns which is our defenses weakness.

Our offense was the strength in 2005 and our defense complimented it well.

Our defense is the strength of our team now I just don't think our offense compliments it as well as the 2005 defense complimented the offense.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

Through the first 14 games of 2005, the Bengals D gave up only 19.7 ppg (this year we're giving up 20.2), so I'm not sure where people are getting this "shoot out" stuff.

2005 was a better team, no doubt.

QB: advantage 2005
RB: advantage 2005
WR: advantage 2005
TE: advantage 2012, although Kelly was a MUCH better blocker
OL: advantage 2005

DL: advantage 2012, although the 2005 line was solid (Justin Smith, Thornton, Robinson, Geathers)
LB: advantage 2005. I love Vontaze, but 05 was better. Odell Thurman, Brian Simmons, Landon Johnson, Pollack
CB: Tie. 2005's starters (Deltha and Tory) were better, but 2012 has MUCH better depth.
S: advantage 2012. Nelson/Crocker > D.Jackson/Ohalete

Not only did the 2005 defense limit opponents to 19.7 ppg through their first 14 games, they also led the league 44 turnovers.

Interesting fact: NFC north QBs combined to throw 2 TDs and 18 INTs against the 05 Bengals. Those QBs were Culpepper, Favre, Kyle Orton and Jeff Garcia.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

Who cares?

That 2005 team couldn't win a playoff game. And we don't have to play the 2005 team.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

You can try and say the 05 defense was better, but look at the number of the defense in the last 7 games, if they would of been as healthy as they have been all year they easily could of put up much better numbers than the 05 squad.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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You can try and say the 05 defense was better, but look at the number of the defense in the last 7 games, if they would of been as healthy as they have been all year they easily could of put up much better numbers than the 05 squad.
The offense was better in 2005 not the defense.

2005 was the better team. It won the division. The last 2 years we had 9 wins against a weak schedule. We might get 10 tomorrow. Also this years team will have 3 wins at best against the division.

2005 had a great line, 2 Pro Bowl caliber wrs and a 3rd receiver who could go deep and 2 good rbs. Perry could catch the ball from the Rob position too.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by Lawless_1 View Post
You're missing my point.

What was great about the 2005 squad was the offense was unstoppable and did exactly what was needed to force our opponents into playing into the strength of our defense.

We don't have that now. Our weaknesses are more scattered and teams are able to play into them more easily (for example short out routes and option plays kill us)
This is absurd.

the point of a defense is to keep the other team from scoring. This years team is much better at that then the the '05 team. I don't care how many turnovers the '05 forced it still allowed more points therefore it is worse.

Thread end.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

Todays offense would destroy 2005 defense. The 2012 defense would hold their own against the 2005 offense.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

Think it would be a good game actually and go down to the wire. But believe the current Bengals team would win per defense.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Think it would be a good game actually and go down to the wire. But believe the current Bengals team would win per defense.
Not sure what your name stands for,, but if its loserville you won't have a chance if you play us again in march. We got screwed on some calls, especially Dieng hanging on Nerlens with a min left. We shot 2 for 700 from the line. Poythress didnt show up either! Go Cats!

Last edited by joefan; 12-29-2012 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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This is absurd.

the point of a defense is to keep the other team from scoring. This years team is much better at that then the the '05 team. I don't care how many turnovers the '05 forced it still allowed more points therefore it is worse.

Thread end.
This years defense is a lot better than 05's, I don't even think it's close. This is a top-5 defense right now, and has bailed us out of more games than I can count.

With 05's defense, this team is 6-10.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by fredtoast View Post
This is absurd.

the point of a defense is to keep the other team from scoring. This years team is much better at that then the the '05 team. I don't care how many turnovers the '05 forced it still allowed more points therefore it is worse.

Thread end.
The '05 defense gets a bad rap. They allowed 21.9 points per game, and that average looks worse because they allowed 45 points to Peyton's Colts. They held opponents to 14 or less 6 times. Plus the league leading 44 turnovers. Of course, you act as if turnovers are worthless or something, but turnovers win ball games. Those turnovers made that team what it was.

This years defense is better overall, but it's not better by a land slide like your saying. Plus this years offense isn't even close to the '05 offense. I think that 2005 o-line would do a solid job against our current d-line, and our corners would have trouble trying to cover Chad, TJ and Henry.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

I thought the 2005 team was better talent wise,but the 2012 team is a bit more mature.

that 2005 IMO was geared for a legit Super Bowl run.
We could kill teams with Rudi wearing you down or Carson going over the top.
we went 5-1 in the North that year.
We were freakishly deep at WR. as a testment to that,Kevin Walter is still playing
at a high level for the Texans.
Walter and Washington stepped up when it mattered.
Chris Perry for a second was a force in the offense. Very good hands on the swing routes.
That defense started 2 rookies and it took Pollack awhile to get comfortable.
Thurman,O'Neal and James were takeaway masters. Thurman did things Rey wishes he could pull off.
that 2005 offensive line was light years better than the 2012 o-line. I don't recall Carson getting sacked
12 times in 2 games.
that defense played against better QBs that year and made them look silly.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: 2005 vs 2011/2012

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Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
Who cares?

That 2005 team couldn't win a playoff game. And we don't have to play the 2005 team.
You killed it Bull, who cares that was 7 years ago.

The bengals D in 05 couldn't stop anyone and the ST's were awful.

Eff 7 years ago. We have to roll with what we have now. you want 35 points a game you are not going to get it.

You want a front four that keeps the Bengals in every game? We have it. Bengals games are hard to watch some times. I get it but, we are never out of it.

We all hate the Steelers but we have the same blueprint. :Punch people in the face, run the ball and take some shots down field.

We may lose but they will know who they played
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