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  #1  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:06 AM
goober goober is offline
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Default Dalton Pressing

Does anyone share my belief that Dalton looks totally out of sync once the ball is snapped? I believe he's terrified of turning the ball over.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

That's the lack of confidence in his O-line at times. Also looking for AJ first in his reads with little time to read anyone else. A lot. Our offense going into one dimensional mode because running game is shut down.

Exhibit A

The Giants game. He had time and made good throws and decisions.

Amazing how that works.

I know there are some people on here who want him to step up or stand in the collapsing pocket.

I just get nightmares of blindside hits/strips.

I have no problem of him throwing it away or protecting the ball and taking a sack or running with it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Does anyone share my belief that Dalton looks totally out of sync once the ball is snapped? I believe he's terrified of turning the ball over.
Heavy blitzing and crowding the line of scrimmage is the book on how to stop the Bengals' offense. Until Jay/Andy find a way to beat it, it will undoubtedly continue. One thing we can be sure to see Saturday is heavy blitzing. It's up to the offense to make them back off.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

The main thing Dalton does that is a bad habit it predictable moves once he's out of the pocket.

If he keeps rolling out to the right and throwing to the sidelines like he does...

we're going to see a lot more turnovers or possibly pick 6s.

The coaches should be reviewing this habit and trying to get him to go away from it.

As much as people hate that Gradkowski uses his checkdowns... I think Dalton could benefit to use them more frequently.

This always comes back to the lack of throwing to the RB or pushing Dalton to have a better checkdown vision.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

Dalton needs to revel in the school of Manning and Brady. See them going to blitz ya? Quick pass to a tight end in the middle. I never see Dalton back out of plays anymore like he did last year, almost as if he got burnt real bad on it once and just stopped. He seems to just go with the play as called regardless of what he sees on the field.

O line can only block so many, it's up to the QB to see what package is coming and make adjustments to burn it if needed. Dalton seems to just say snap it and if they blitz I'll try to run away.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

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Originally Posted by wavemakersdj View Post
Dalton needs to revel in the school of Manning and Brady. See them going to blitz ya? Quick pass to a tight end in the middle. I never see Dalton back out of plays anymore like he did last year, almost as if he got burnt real bad on it once and just stopped. He seems to just go with the play as called regardless of what he sees on the field.

O line can only block so many, it's up to the QB to see what package is coming and make adjustments to burn it if needed. Dalton seems to just say snap it and if they blitz I'll try to run away.
I agree. TheTE or RB outlet is ignored. If he reads blitz he should adjust and make them the first read. Not hope for the best or get a glimpse of AJ streaking in single coverage. More times than not... he won't have time to plant and throw to AJ. At least not accurately.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

I totally agree he seems to panic in the pocket at times. And his "pocket presence" or some such words to describe his post snap, pre-throw time is/has been struggling a lot lately !

Trent Dilfer while describing basically Tony Romo last night was talking about this very thing and how defenses and especially DC's have to make the good QB's think after the snap by disguising defenses/coverages, moving people around etc. and how defenses have to play that way to win in today's NFL.

Maybe this is part of Dalton's problem, in other words he's thinking to much about what he has to do, what the coverage is, who's going to be open, etc. instead of just letting the game come to him he's frocing it.

I've seen many times wide open receivers right in Andy's face and he forces the ball (usually to AJ) into coverage further down the field.

And really I'm not sure it took all of that to say I believe he's waaayyy overthinking the game right now !
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

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I totally agree he seems to panic in the pocket at times. And his "pocket presence" or some such words to describe his post snap, pre-throw time is/has been struggling a lot lately !

Trent Dilfer while describing basically Tony Romo last night was talking about this very thing and how defenses and especially DC's have to make the good QB's think after the snap by disguising defenses/coverages, moving people around etc. and how defenses have to play that way to win in today's NFL.

Maybe this is part of Dalton's problem, in other words he's thinking to much about what he has to do, what the coverage is, who's going to be open, etc. instead of just letting the game come to him he's frocing it.

I've seen many times wide open receivers right in Andy's face and he forces the ball (usually to AJ) into coverage further down the field.

And really I'm not sure it took all of that to say I believe he's waaayyy overthinking the game right now !
Yup. Don't want him to be Capt. Checkdown... but hey you can't always go for the homerun. I just hope he starts trusting Marvin Jones now as a second option for that "homerun" play. Maybe even make him the first read before AJ sometimes. You know AJ is gonna get blanketed.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

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Yup. Don't want him to be Capt. Checkdown... but hey you can't always go for the homerun. I just hope he starts trusting Marvin Jones now as a second option for that "homerun" play. Maybe even make him the first read before AJ sometimes. You know AJ is gonna get blanketed.
Right ! And there's a fine line between Captain checkdown and just taking what the defense gives you as they give it to you.

Like wavemaker said it seems at times Andy is just to determined to make a play work instead of throwing to the open man.

And yes a reliable #2 is a must, come on M. Jones !
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

We have the same basic formula that made us great under the top of palmers game, we just aren't using it. We have a middle receiver in hawkins, a deep threat in AJ, but now we also have a true second receiver in jones and a true pass catching tight end in gresham. All we are missing is the experience and mind process of getting to those middle receivers when necessary, especially under the pressure of a blitz. Ended the season 10-6, but think how close we were to being a 12-4 or 13-3 team if we had beaten cleveland, miami, and dallas. We really are that good, we just need to use what we have to our advantage, and get dalton to during the off season not watch our tapes, but watch Denver's tapes.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:35 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton Pressing

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Originally Posted by bengalfan74 View Post
Right ! And there's a fine line between Captain checkdown and just taking what the defense gives you as they give it to you.

Like wavemaker said it seems at times Andy is just to determined to make a play work instead of throwing to the open man.

And yes a reliable #2 is a must, come on M. Jones !
just my opinion on here, but i do believe at times old andy plays scared. thats okay i guess as long as he gets the ball to his playmakers, which when he panics he does all kinds of crazy things. i hate it when he takes off from the pocket and fails to find someone to thrown it to. that drives me crazy.he leaves alot of plays out there when he doesn't need to. he concerns me about always missing the long throws and # 84 is clueless. the dude drops the ball all the time. on any other team, he would either get coached up or benched. not in the nati. they keep putting this dude out there, when he is costing the team points.yes, sometimes he makes a good play, but COMEON, MAN. PUT YOUR BRAIN INTO THE GAME.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

It is Cook's fault...I do not care what anyone says go watch the tape from the last 3 weeks...Cook is getting thrown all over the place..Robinson held the middle much better...look at the pressure before and after Cook came back...Cook flailing at thin air many many times...especially yesterday....
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalsRocker View Post
The main thing Dalton does that is a bad habit it predictable moves once he's out of the pocket.

If he keeps rolling out to the right and throwing to the sidelines like he does...

we're going to see a lot more turnovers or possibly pick 6s.

The coaches should be reviewing this habit and trying to get him to go away from it.

As much as people hate that Gradkowski uses his checkdowns... I think Dalton could benefit to use them more frequently.

This always comes back to the lack of throwing to the RB or pushing Dalton to have a better checkdown vision.


This is probably one of Dalton's biggest weaknesses. I have noticed that on every third and short for the last couple of weeks, Leonard has checked in and he puts up a block and rolls out for a checkdown pass.

Dalton has never once thrown it to Leonard in this situation and it frustrates the heck out of me. Leonard is WIDE open and he would get the first down in most of these situations. Not to mention it would stop the blitzes.

Jay's way of handling the blitzes is to throw a quick screen. The only problem is, is that it isn't working. We need to set up plays like we would to hit our WRs long and leave the checkdown as an opportunity. Tell Dalton take one look at Green, if he is getting pressure check it down.

Do that a couple times and they will stop blitzing and you will have more time to throw.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by fortyyearfan View Post
just my opinion on here, but i do believe at times old andy plays scared. thats okay i guess as long as he gets the ball to his playmakers, which when he panics he does all kinds of crazy things. i hate it when he takes off from the pocket and fails to find someone to thrown it to. that drives me crazy.he leaves alot of plays out there when he doesn't need to. he concerns me about always missing the long throws and # 84 is clueless. the dude drops the ball all the time. on any other team, he would either get coached up or benched. not in the nati. they keep putting this dude out there, when he is costing the team points.yes, sometimes he makes a good play, but COMEON, MAN. PUT YOUR BRAIN INTO THE GAME.
And once again this guy makes it all about Gresham.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

I have to also say I am dissapointed in the play-calling this year. I feel like we should be using more two TE sets and we haven't at all. I feel like have been seeing the same plays all year and ZERO changes and development. I know players have gotten hurt, but the routes haven't changed much and like I said I would like to see more two TE sets.


I think the Two TE sets could help with the blitzing and check down issues.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

Gruden was quoted in here by writer Hobson as saying that he thinks Dalton is regressing. Gruden's forte' is supposed to be QBs.

My question to Gruden is, are you helping the situation or are you part of the problem?

It's been stated by many of his teammates, that Andy is a stand up guy and willing to do whatever it takes to win and he doesn't care about personal stats and all.

I haven't coached football but I have coached baseball and that type of attitude is a coach's dream!

Dalton DOES have the talent and potential, I just think he needs the right 'groomer' and Jay doesn't seem to be getting it done!

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Old 12-31-2012, 10:23 AM
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I think they were more successful in the passing game last year when Andy rolled out more often by design, not because the pocket collapsed. It seems to me that they are encouraging him to be more of a pocket passer & unfortunately, it hasn't bode well.

Something that I think is a real problem is Gresham. I think he is slow & can't get open when Andy needs him in the middle. We get burned by other team's TE's all the time, but that seems to be a trick we don't have in our bag. I blame it on Gresham personally. He always looks slow & lethargic to me. I know he's got muscle and can power through some traffic, but if he could open more often I believe Jay Gruden's offense would look much improved.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:26 AM
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I also think Andy plays a bit nervous behind our line.....with good reason. That's never a good thing...it forces your QB to make bad decisions & toss poor throws. I also question why our receivers struggle to get open.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavemakersdj View Post
Dalton needs to revel in the school of Manning and Brady. See them going to blitz ya? Quick pass to a tight end in the middle. I never see Dalton back out of plays anymore like he did last year, almost as if he got burnt real bad on it once and just stopped. He seems to just go with the play as called regardless of what he sees on the field.

O line can only block so many, it's up to the QB to see what package is coming and make adjustments to burn it if needed. Dalton seems to just say snap it and if they blitz I'll try to run away.
I agree with this to an extent, but there is a difference between the schemes of the QBs you mention and that of Dalton. The Bengals like to bunch the formation and only send two or three receiving options out in a pattern. Manning and Brady never have fewer than three receivers out in a pattern, and often 4 or er even 5. They will spread defenses out and attack, instead of adding protection and reducing receiving options. The few times they have spread out opponents (final two drives in pissburg ) they have had success. And contrary to popular belief, you can run out of a spread formation. See new England.

I hope they allow Datlton more freedom to check out of run plays in to 9 man fronts, but the key is receiving options for the defense to account for.

They should have AJ, Marvin (to stretch the field), Hawkins, and Greshamm/Charles in the pattern every time except short yardage.

Their success in the post season hinges 100% on the offenses willingness to attack. I know what the defense and special teams can do. The offense simply must spread them out and attack.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

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Originally Posted by McC View Post
Heavy blitzing and crowding the line of scrimmage is the book on how to stop the Bengals' offense. Until Jay/Andy find a way to beat it, it will undoubtedly continue. One thing we can be sure to see Saturday is heavy blitzing. It's up to the offense to make them back off.
Yup. Jay needs to add another page to his playbook. I think teams have figured out his simplistic offense. Jay needs to be more creative to protect Andy. The line isn't good enough to give him a clean pocket, so he needs to be creative and utilize misdirection plays, screens, roll-outs (both left and right), as well as have Andy some good check down options.

Also, it's a little late now, but Dalton needs to develop a rapport with Marvin Jones. I can understand why he hasn't though, because MJ is his 4th #2 wr this year. That's one of the biggest issues for Andy this year that people don't talk about. He's had 3 centers and 4 #2 wrs. He needs stability from those crucual positions..
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Dalton Pressing

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Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
Yup. Jay needs to add another page to his playbook. I think teams have figured out his simplistic offense. Jay needs to be more creative to protect Andy. The line isn't good enough to give him a clean pocket, so he needs to be creative and utilize misdirection plays, screens, roll-outs (both left and right), as well as have Andy some good check down options.

Also, it's a little late now, but Dalton needs to develop a rapport with Marvin Jones. I can understand why he hasn't though, because MJ is his 4th #2 wr this year. That's one of the biggest issues for Andy this year that people don't talk about. He's had 3 centers and 4 #2 wrs. He needs stability from those crucual positions..
More running on the edges and less between the tackles when there's 7 or 8 in the box.

Like the laterals and shovel passes to combat an aggressive pass rush.

Also, need to show more two TE sets with Gresh and Charles.
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