If Andy Dalton can play GREAT......

[jack1953]

Originally Posted by kramer1

If this was a decade ago I might agree. This is not the NFL of a decade ago, though.

The last 10 super bowl winning QB's...Eli, Peyton, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and...Brad Johnson (2003).

Dalton isn't even on the same planet as the above mentioned QB's. It's a passing league. Offense rules...not defense.

Brad Johnson great???? You forgot to mention Dilfer 2000 Ravens another 'great' QB!!!

Out of the above QBs only Rothlisberger was able to win SB in his second season and the Pitt defense was #4 overall.

Even Brady, who I think is the best that ever played and no other QB should ever be compared that is playing today, including Manning and Rodgers, had the number #1 defense in the league in his first SB after his 4th year in the league.

It took Brees 9 years to get one.

Peyton took 8 years

Rodgers took 5 years

Defense don't win games???

Eli is not the QB his brother is and has won 2 SBs, his first after 3 years in the league. How? On the heels of the Giant defense and special teams.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by SHRacerX

Put him in a place to be successful. Have four legitimate receiving options in the pattern every down, except short yardage. Spread them out and attack. They have the weapons, use them and attack.

I will be the first one on here to admit i have slammed our qb alot this year, but its because i want this team to be great.perhaps i am expecting too much from him in only his second year, and just maybe its just too much for him to ask him to go lead his team to the promised land. after all, he is just two years removed from playing college ball and not having such a grind as the nfl. i do think he is a little burned out with all the news media crap,and the expectations now that this is a legit team.i know i would be. Lets all hope he gets it together along with jay gruden who is also still learning. I have some confidence they can win in Houston. However we all know how tough it is.It is so great we are talking playoffs this year. i am happy about that.

[jranqb9]

Comp att comp% yds YPA TD int
329 528 62.3 3,669 6.95 27 16


those are his stats, he led us too a 10-6 record. He has a better QB rating than Eli Manning, which you referenced as someone that has what it takes to win a super bowl. He is tied for 7th in touchdowns, which is remarkable along with his passing numbers since he was sacked 3rd most in the league at 46 sacks. His completion percentage is .7 less than Tom Brady and Drew Brees. Oh and did I mention he led us to a 10-6 record and back to back playoff appearances for the first time in 30 years...

You guys need to give the kid some credit. He has been a leader and a player all year and you guys just see the negatives. If you are going to say we have a good team, you have to say he is a good QB. Just enjoy the ride and the fact that we are good.

[MasonBengalFan]

Originally Posted by kramer1

That's the point. The defense really doesn't matter in the end. It can help get you there, but it can't really get you to the promised land all on it's own anymore. And that's what it's all about...playoff wins and championship titles. Just getting there shouldn't be acceptable any more.

If Andy Dalton is just good enough to hold down the fort, but not good enough to get this team over the next hurdle then he needs to be replaced. I'm not ok with what I'm seeing out of him. His play is not ok with me because I am able to look at it objectively without the rose colored glasses.

IMO he's simply not the qb to lead a team to a championship. In the end that's simply not acceptable to me.

I think it's too early to say he is not the QB to lead us to the Chanpionship. He needs more weapons at his disposal. For most of the year we have searched for a running game and or a no. 2 receiver. How can you say he isn't the man until these guys are found. I admit he has struggled recently, but they are young & they are improving before our eyes. You just got to enjoy the ride.
It's been a long, long, long time coming....

[jranqb9]

Originally Posted by kramer1

I didn't say he was a bust. I do believe 32 NFL games is enough to judge, though. Is there some sort of magic number? That's a straw man argument that gets used a lot. Is game 45 where the switch gets flipped? Come on...

Andy Dalton is a professional athlete that gets paid to perform at what I hope is expected to be a championship level. The second that it is agreed upon that he isn't or he can't is when plans should be set into motion to replace him. He's a big boy. He's an adult. He's owed NOTHING. WE owe him NOTHING. WIN. PERIOD. That's it. If ya can't...too bad then. Next man in.

We can do better than Andy Dalton. His ceiling is not high enough. His play is not good enough. I suspect it never will be. It doesn't take a "football guru" to see that, either.

Just an FYI he does win games.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by kramer1

What makes one think Andy Dalton can play "great?" I'm asking a serious question and I want a serious answer.

What physical attributes does he possess? What about mental/intangibles? What about his last 5 games? Why would he just all of the sudden snap out of it? How would he just all of the sudden snap out of it?

Andy Dalton has been miserable with a capital M over the last month. This cannot be argued in any way. The team has won in spite of the pathetic offense. This is a great testament to Mike Zimmer and the defensive front 7. Those guys are fantastic.

I'm just not seeing how Andy Dalton is anything but average to mediocre and I don't see any miracle rebound by him. He is what he is.

IMO the team can do better than him. And we as fans deserve better than him. I am not OK with average at the most crucial position in a passing NFL. It's not ok with me and it's not ever going to be. I demand better.

In regards to our quarterback,it seems to me he has regressed last 4-5 games.There seems to be something not right with him.Is it the line?? I think that is a big part of it as he doesn't trust them.Another thing I personally feel is he is way young and somewhat immature at this time. If he struggles next week and i believe he will, i would not be opposed to putting his backup in. Bruce is very capable of winning it, he is a good qualitiy qb and he just may give the offense a lift.As all of us already feel, Jay Gruden has not lit it up with his playcalling.He seems to never use screens,or the two-tightend set that New England does and has great success.just saying.

[Dalton's_Gang]

Originally Posted by kramer1

I didn't say he was a bust. I do believe 32 NFL games is enough to judge, though. Is there some sort of magic number? That's a straw man argument that gets used a lot. Is game 45 where the switch gets flipped? Come on...

Andy Dalton is a professional athlete that gets paid to perform at what I hope is expected to be a championship level. The second that it is agreed upon that he isn't or he can't is when plans should be set into motion to replace him. He's a big boy. He's an adult. He's owed NOTHING. WE owe him NOTHING. WIN. PERIOD. That's it. If ya can't...too bad then. Next man in.

We can do better than Andy Dalton. His ceiling is not high enough. His play is not good enough. I suspect it never will be. It doesn't take a "football guru" to see that, either.

you are one of the very few who seem to think he is not good enough. majority of us here think he is good enough. just think how good he would be if he had more than AJ to throw to? he would be a lot better if we werent cycling in receivers in the #2 spot and beyond.

he is doing a little thing called progressing.

[kramer1]

Originally Posted by jranqb9

Comp att comp% yds YPA TD int
329 528 62.3 3,669 6.95 27 16


those are his stats, he led us too a 10-6 record. He has a better QB rating than Eli Manning, which you referenced as someone that has what it takes to win a super bowl. He is tied for 7th in touchdowns, which is remarkable along with his passing numbers since he was sacked 3rd most in the league at 46 sacks. His completion percentage is .7 less than Tom Brady and Drew Brees. Oh and did I mention he led us to a 10-6 record and back to back playoff appearances for the first time in 30 years...

You guys need to give the kid some credit. He has been a leader and a player all year and you guys just see the negatives. If you are going to say we have a good team, you have to say he is a good QB. Just enjoy the ride and the fact that we are good.

I'll give credit where it's due. The team has won 7 out of it's last 8 in spite of Andy Dalton and not because of him. Good for the team. I'm happy. It's a good defense and I'm thrilled with it. The offense is absolutely abysmal, though. Can't be argued. Don;t even try and argue. It *****. Period.

Andy Dalton's QB rating was inflated by games against weak sisters at the beginning of the season. His rating over the last month has been abysmal (look it up). He's getting worse. Teams are figuring him out. He's not physically gifted enough to overcome. He simply doesn't have the necessary physical attributes to succeed at a high level in the National Football League.

We can do better. We deserve better.

[kramer1]

Originally Posted by Dalton's_Gang

you are one of the very few who seem to think he is not good enough. majority of us here think he is good enough. just think how good he would be if he had more than AJ to throw to? he would be a lot better if we werent cycling in receivers in the #2 spot and beyond.

he is doing a little thing called progressing.

He's not progressing by any means. He's actually getting markedly worse. Can't be argued. The stats don't lie.

[BengalsRocker]

Sheesh some people.

The Steelers game ought to give you some kind of indication of the offense's problem.

That O-line couldn't block for the run if it's life depended on it.

I don't blame it all on the players. They have managed to get BJGE several 100+ yard games.

Some blame has to go for the nimrod coaching decisions to mess with the line's chemistry and some questionable playcalling.

Some has to go to receivers not getting open and dropping passes.

Some has to go to Dalton making bad throws and not checking down other players.

To say it's all on Dalton... you must be a motherf'n moron.

[MasonBengalFan]

Way too early to say that. Not progressing ???

[MasonBengalFan]

Originally Posted by BengalsRocker

Sheesh some people.

The Steelers game ought to give you some kind of indication of the offense's problem.

That O-line couldn't block for the run if it's life depended on it.

I don't blame it all on the players. They have managed to get BJGE several 100+ yard games.

Some blame has to go for the nimrod coaching decisions to mess with the line's chemistry and some questionable playcalling.

Some has to go to receivers not getting open and dropping passes.

Some has to go to Dalton making bad throws and not checking down other players.

To say it's all on Dalton... you must be a motherf'n moron.

This...
Although you are entitled to your opinion.

[SHRacerX]

Originally Posted by fortyyearfan

I will be the first one on here to admit i have slammed our qb alot this year, but its because i want this team to be great.perhaps i am expecting too much from him in only his second year, and just maybe its just too much for him to ask him to go lead his team to the promised land. after all, he is just two years removed from playing college ball and not having such a grind as the nfl. i do think he is a little burned out with all the news media crap,and the expectations now that this is a legit team.i know i would be. Lets all hope he gets it together along with jay gruden who is also still learning. I have some confidence they can win in Houston. However we all know how tough it is.It is so great we are talking playoffs this year. i am happy about that.

Look at it this way: no NFL QB is winning with two receiving options and bunch formations....not even the Vikings are that conservative. To score enough points in these games to win, Gruden and Marv need to spread them out and attack. Pass to set up runs, the other way simply doesn't work unless you have Adrian Peterson and even then, playoff teams will be able to take away the one threat.

The Colts have let Luck throw it in spread formations all year. No "protection formations". Spread out defenses and attack. Luck has thrown a ton of picks and doesnt have the greatest completion %, but he is learning what windows he can fit the ball in to and making opposing defenses cover all his options.

I am not saying "run the spread"' a la college option-read. No, not at all. I am saying run the two-minute offense from the beginning. It doesn't have to be hurry-up, but the Bengals need to use their receiving threats as receivers in patterns. No less than three, and often four in a pattern. Watch defenses drop to cover two and nickel. Then you can hit them with 5 yard rushes as well.

Spread them out and attack. Get 24 points each game, win next four games. With the defense and special teams playing like they are, that could be enough. But they will not score 24 with the stupid 1 yard rushes out of the tackle eligible formation.

[Dalton's_Gang]

Originally Posted by kramer1

He's not progressing by any means. He's actually getting markedly worse. Can't be argued. The stats don't lie.

he got us to the play offs. playin good to me. he is having a couple bad games and that is because he doesnt have anyone consistantly to throw to aside from AJ. more options in the field equal better QB play.

He is the best QB we have had in nearly 30 years.
he is the 3rd QB behind marino and manning to throw for 3k and 20+ TDs in his first 2 seasons.

He is fine, you are just trolling.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hopeful

Andy is the question mark moving into this game. I like Andy but he has not been himself the second half of the season. He needs to get out of this rut he is in. If this offense can start putting drives together like it was in the first half of the season where we were scoring 30+ points in back to back weeks, we would be unstoppable.

Heres whats missing for our team to be unstoppable and just fantastic.ADRIAN PETERSON.We have a seviceable running back, not one defenses fear.If you cannot put quality points up, like a 30 spot, you are doomed. Now with our defense we have a chance, with a dominate offense we could be so scary!! Should have gotten a top running back during pre-season.So what do we do??To all on here, tweet, fax and write letters to front office this week demanding from the fans that JAY GRUDEN and this offense puts together a dominate game play NOW!!!. ITS ALL ANY OF US CAN DO REALLY, IS SEND A STRONG MESSAGE TO THEM WE WANT BETTER THAN THIS.HEY, JAY GRUDEN FIGURE IT OUT OR LISTEN TO US FANS, WE WILL FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOU,MAN!!!!

[kramer1]

Originally Posted by BengalsRocker

Sheesh some people.

The Steelers game ought to give you some kind of indication of the offense's problem.

That O-line couldn't block for the run if it's life depended on it.

I don't blame it all on the players. They have managed to get BJGE several 100+ yard games.

Some blame has to go for the nimrod coaching decisions to mess with the line's chemistry and some questionable playcalling.

Some has to go to receivers not getting open and dropping passes.

Some has to go to Dalton making bad throws and not checking down other players.

To say it's all on Dalton... you must be a motherf'n moron.

I never said anything is "all on Dalton." I said the team has won games because of great defense and not because of great QB play....which is unquestionably true. How could that even be up for debate? I'm willing to accept the possibility that horrible play calling may have had an effect on Dalton's performance. That is entirely possible. However...

We can and should strive for excellence. Andy Dalton is not excellence. 10 teams in this league have what I deem to be "excellent" QB's. The Cincinnati Bengals are not one of them and to me that is not acceptable and the problem should be taken care of as soon as possible.

[kramer1]

Originally Posted by Dalton's_Gang

he got us to the play offs. playin good to me. he is having a couple bad games and that is because he doesnt have anyone consistantly to throw to aside from AJ. more options in the field equal better QB play.

He is the best QB we have had in nearly 30 years.
he is the 3rd QB behind marino and manning to throw for 3k and 20+ TDs in his first 2 seasons.

He is fine, you are just trolling.

If you really think I'm trolling then you're not very bright. I'm attempting to have an adult discussion. I'm asking people to at least imagine the possibility of something better. IMO we deserve it.

[Dalton's_Gang]

Originally Posted by kramer1

If you really think I'm trolling then you're not very bright. I'm attempting to have an adult discussion. I'm asking people to at least imagine the possibility of something better. IMO we deserve it.

dude, we are bengals fans. you dont have to ask us to lol.

[ItsaMeScott]

Our O-line needs to play great. Andy did well this year when he was not being laid out on the turf 5 or 6 times a game.

He always seems to do better in the 4th quarter. I do not know the stats but a few weeks ago I seem to remember seeing that his 4th quarter numbers were much better than the other three quarters. I hope he takes that 4th quarter mentality into the playoffs.

If the O-line can play well, we are as dangerous as any team.

[jranqb9]

Originally Posted by kramer1

I'll give credit where it's due. The team has won 7 out of it's last 8 in spite of Andy Dalton and not because of him. Good for the team. I'm happy. It's a good defense and I'm thrilled with it. The offense is absolutely abysmal, though. Can't be argued. Don;t even try and argue. It *****. Period.

Andy Dalton's QB rating was inflated by games against weak sisters at the beginning of the season. His rating over the last month has been abysmal (look it up). He's getting worse. Teams are figuring him out. He's not physically gifted enough to overcome. He simply doesn't have the necessary physical attributes to succeed at a high level in the National Football League.

We can do better. We deserve better.

There is a reason that the NFL season is longer than one month. OK he has had a mediocre December, but if you want to play the month by month game how about you go check out his November...wins are wins no matter how you put it. If our offense was so bad AJ and Andy wouldn't have the numbers they have. Hell, BJGE is over 1000yds. I think you need to go take off your blinders Kramer and realize that the offense is not as bad as you think and you are wrong in saying that Andy is not a good QB. Wins+Stats = GOOD. AGAIN let me says this....WE ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS.

[BengalsRocker]

Originally Posted by kramer1

What makes one think Andy Dalton can play "great?" I'm asking a serious question and I want a serious answer.

What physical attributes does he possess? What about mental/intangibles? What about his last 5 games? Why would he just all of the sudden snap out of it? How would he just all of the sudden snap out of it?

Andy Dalton has been miserable with a capital M over the last month. This cannot be argued in any way. The team has won in spite of the pathetic offense. This is a great testament to Mike Zimmer and the defensive front 7. Those guys are fantastic.

I'm just not seeing how Andy Dalton is anything but average to mediocre and I don't see any miracle rebound by him. He is what he is.

IMO the team can do better than him. And we as fans deserve better than him. I am not OK with average at the most crucial position in a passing NFL. It's not ok with me and it's not ever going to be. I demand better.

If this isn't throwing your QB under the bus. I don't know what is.

That's okay. You already wrote him off. There is no need to argue the issue.

Are his numbers bad in the past 5 games? Yes.

Is he not going to play any better ever. I don't know... but you sure seem to do.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by SHRacerX

Look at it this way: no NFL QB is winning with two receiving options and bunch formations....not even the Vikings are that conservative. To score enough points in these games to win, Gruden and Marv need to spread them out and attack. Pass to set up runs, the other way simply doesn't work unless you have Adrian Peterson and even then, playoff teams will be able to take away the one threat.

The Colts have let Luck throw it in spread formations all year. No "protection formations". Spread out defenses and attack. Luck has thrown a ton of picks and doesnt have the greatest completion %, but he is learning what windows he can fit the ball in to and making opposing defenses cover all his options.

I am not saying "run the spread"' a la college option-read. No, not at all. I am saying run the two-minute offense from the beginning. It doesn't have to be hurry-up, but the Bengals need to use their receiving threats as receivers in patterns. No less than three, and often four in a pattern. Watch defenses drop to cover two and nickel. Then you can hit them with 5 yard rushes as well.

Spread them out and attack. Get 24 points each game, win next four games. With the defense and special teams playing like they are, that could be enough. But they will not score 24 with the stupid 1 yard rushes out of the tackle eligible formation.

TO SHRacer X.
What you just posted on here in regards to this offense,please write on paper, keep it clean, and fax over to marvin lewis and put attention JAY GRUDEN.The front office ensures me they get their faxes up there. they might not read them until later in the evening, but its worth a try. his fax numer is 513-455-8305. if you call the front office, they will give you other fax numbers as well. its all good.and i am going to make you our message boards OC FOR THIS WEEK. well said, my man.

[kramer1]

Originally Posted by BengalsRocker

If this isn't throwing your QB under the bus. I don't know what is.

That's okay. You already wrote him off. There is no need to argue the issue.

Are his numbers bad in the past 5 games? Yes.

Is he not going to play any better ever. I don't know... but you sure seem to do.

I know what a great QB looks like. Anyone who has watched the NFL for an extended period should. Andy Dalton isn't great. Andy Dalton will never be great. Anything less than striving for greatness is unacceptable to me...and that's my point. We can and should do better. I'm afraid we won't, though.

Oh, and that's not throwing him under the bus. It's just is what it is. He's serviceable. He's not gonna do much damage either good or bad. That's just simply not good enough.

Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Luck, RG3, Romo, Ryan. That's great. That's the bar. Anything under it is completely unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Not in this passing league.

[wolfkaosaun]

Yes. With Dalton, when the Bengals score 25+ points, they have not lost.

And Dalton can play like that. We saw that against the Giants, whom have a very good D-line. He just has to be consistent. He's a young QB, but he has already led this team to as many playoff berths as Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, and Carson Palmer did with the Bengals.'

[_-TheK-_]

Originally Posted by wolfkaosaun

Yes. With Dalton, when the Bengals score 25+ points, they have not lost.

And Dalton can play like that. We saw that against the Giants, whom have a very good D-line. He just has to be consistent. He's a young QB, but he has already led this team to as many playoff berths as Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, and Carson Palmer did with the Bengals.'

Honestly, I'm inclined to disregard that game as somewhat flukey. The Bengals did play good, but they played against a Giant's game that had literally been though a hurricane. Going through the experiences they had, I would not be in the right mindset to play football.

With that said, Dalton needs to play better than he has these last five weeks. The only reason we've won these last five games is because our defense has been playing such incredible football. But to go in and expect our defense to carry the team every week with nearly perfect football is asking to much from them. There needs to be more balance, and the offense needs to actually put some significant points on the board. Otherwise, they are putting to much responsibility on the defense to play at a level that, while amazing, will not be sustainable down the stretch.

In a nutshell, our defense has been playing so well that its been masking and making up for our abysmal offense this last month. This can't last, and Dalton needs to improve his game. But not just Dalton. The receivers need to stop dropping balls, the o-line needs to play more aggressively, and Gruden needs to open up the playbook.