This bothers me about the passing game

[Go Cards]

Originally Posted by Jasonew6

I don't mind taking the occasional "shot" on 3rd and 1. Often the D will stack the box to stop the run so you have 1 on 1 outside. As long as they don't do it on every 3rd and 1, I don't have a problem with it.

Agree with this theory. Keeps the defense honest. Plus if it is intercepted it is just like a punt.

[fumetti]

Here we are, entering the playoffs with a new QB and new WRs and the same old mess creeps up again. In 2009, Palmer fell off a cliff. His passes were ridiculously off-target, especially long passes. Teams just double-teamed Chad and took their (very good) chances one-on-one everywhere else. Palmer struggled all through the last 6 games and barely scooted past very weak defenses in Detroit, Kansas City, and Cleveland. The Cincy media blasted concerned fans and twisted our complaints into gripes over "style points." I sent an email to J Reedy about his story where he referred to Cincy's over-reliance on the run as a "strategy." I told him that "strategy" would get Cincy a quick exit in the playoffs. He responded about how disgruntled and *****y Bengals fans had become. Well guess what story he wrote the day after the Jets loss? It sure wasn't a defense of Lewis's "strategy." the passing game inexplicably collapsed and Cincy had no way of coming back against the Jets.

I see the same pattern occurring. Again the passing game is atrocious, and again it is overshadowed by wins. "Hey, we're 7-1 in the last 8 games, watcha cryin' about, fumetti?" Well, I don't want to see history repeat itself this year. Last year Cincy had a rough time at the end of the season and went into Houston limping a bit offensively. We're doing it again this year. Dalton's been sacked how many times in the last month, 17? Dalton threw 10 long passes vs Pitt and connected on just 3? (The only important pass vs Pitt was the last one.) And nothing looked better vs Balt. One good drive that started on the Balt 42 or so--after Balt had started substituting on defense.

There is something terrible going on with our passing game. Most of the time it seems we alternate between three results, esp on longer passes: (1) Dalton gets sacked, (2) Dalton misses by a mile, or (3) receivers get the drops. That's a lot of problem areas packed into those results.

Gruden has done a terrible job in second games against teams in a season. So far, his offense has performed WORSE each time. Our recent wins over Balt and Pitt were in spite of the offense, not on the back of it. Defense is carrying us right now. To me, this shows he's just not a very good strategist. He has one plan, if it works we look great--but if they counter it, he never has a successful response. In that regard, we get horribly outcoached all the time.

My worry is, we faced a dreadful OL (and weak D) in Philly, and came way too close to losing that game (their turnovers won that game for us). On paper, we have most of the advantages against Houston--which doesn't seem to bode well for us. But we can overcome all of that by getting the passing game back on track.

This week is on Gruden. He's the OC. He's gotta get the passing game fixed. If he does and we win, he deserves many accolades. But if he doesn't fix this thing and get the passing game working and come up with solutions to Houston's counters to his gameplan, then we gotta get a new OC. It's his job. He's the one to hold accountable if Dalton & Co. play on Saturday the way they've been playing of late.

I think we'll win if the offense plays alright. But if it's another week of sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, etc... then I don't think we'll win and don't think Gruden deserves to come back next year.

[Slappy from New Haven]

Well thanks for catching an awesome buzz, or sniffing paint, or your parents going out tonight.

Andy is fine,

[THE PISTONS]

In 09 our passing g game was hot until Henry got hurt. Sane thing happened this year when SanU got hurt.

[Ryan Mc]

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

Well thanks for catching an awesome buzz, or sniffing paint, or your parents going out tonight.

Andy is fine,

His concern is not completely out of line. Andy had a passer rating over 100 after the first 4 games, and even after tailing off a bit from that hot start it was still in the mid-90's for the season as recently as late November. He finished the season at 87.4. And, of course, passer rating doesn't even take into account the greater number of sacks we've been giving up. There really is no question that the passing game has steadily tailed off in efficiency as the season has gone on (the last five games: 4 TD passes, 5 INTs, 20 sacks conceded).

[Ron Mexico]

Originally Posted by Ryan Mc

His concern is not completely out of line. Andy had a passer rating over 100 after the first 4 games, and even after tailing off a bit from that hot start it was still in the mid-90's for the season as recently as late November. He finished the season at 87.4. And, of course, passer rating doesn't even take into account the greater number of sacks we've been giving up. There really is no question that the passing game has steadily tailed off in efficiency as the season has gone on (the last five games: 4 TD passes, 5 INTs, 20 sacks conceded).

The passing game is actually a big issue regardless of whether people want to admit it or not. It hasn't looked good in the last 4 games.....at all. Now, I don't think all of the blame deserves to fall on Dalton, or any other person for that matter. It's a combination of things that makes this passing offense less than desirable.

The O-Line has stunk it up at pass protection recently, and the receiving corps (outside of Green) is pretty below average. Our receivers drop balls constantly and a lot of them fail to get open with any consistency. With that said....SOME of the blame lies on Dalton. I've seen tons of plays where he gets a decent pocket, but runs away from it anyway. There are other times where there is a guy out there completely open, and for one reason or another, he fails to get them the ball.

He looks like a good QB to me though....he's just having a rough time. He isn't Brady or Manning, so everyone should quit expecting him to be. He's just a solid QB that will do some good things but also make some boneheaded moves. If he isn't performing better in a couple years, I would say there is a reason for concern, but at this point I'm not concerned with his overall ability to play the game.

[Utts]

Andy has contributed to the number of sacks. He has a bad habit of holding the ball too long, or running out of the pocket after holding it too long. This may improve in time with experience or improved options.

[Shake n Blake]

2012 Dalton > 2009 Dalton

Dalton has 575 more yards, 5 more tds and a better passer rating.

That said, the pass protection isn't nearly as good (26 sacks in '09, 47 this year), and I agree that our passing game has tailed off in a similar fashion to '09. Still, I think we'll be able to pass against the Texans. I don't think we'll see our guys get shut down like Palmer, Chad and Coles were in the Jets wc game.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by fumetti

Here we are, entering the playoffs with a new QB and new WRs and the same old mess creeps up again. In 2009, Palmer fell off a cliff. His passes were ridiculously off-target, especially long passes. Teams just double-teamed Chad and took their (very good) chances one-on-one everywhere else. Palmer struggled all through the last 6 games and barely scooted past very weak defenses in Detroit, Kansas City, and Cleveland. The Cincy media blasted concerned fans and twisted our complaints into gripes over "style points." I sent an email to J Reedy about his story where he referred to Cincy's over-reliance on the run as a "strategy." I told him that "strategy" would get Cincy a quick exit in the playoffs. He responded about how disgruntled and *****y Bengals fans had become. Well guess what story he wrote the day after the Jets loss? It sure wasn't a defense of Lewis's "strategy." the passing game inexplicably collapsed and Cincy had no way of coming back against the Jets.

I see the same pattern occurring. Again the passing game is atrocious, and again it is overshadowed by wins. "Hey, we're 7-1 in the last 8 games, watcha cryin' about, fumetti?" Well, I don't want to see history repeat itself this year. Last year Cincy had a rough time at the end of the season and went into Houston limping a bit offensively. We're doing it again this year. Dalton's been sacked how many times in the last month, 17? Dalton threw 10 long passes vs Pitt and connected on just 3? (The only important pass vs Pitt was the last one.) And nothing looked better vs Balt. One good drive that started on the Balt 42 or so--after Balt had started substituting on defense.

There is something terrible going on with our passing game. Most of the time it seems we alternate between three results, esp on longer passes: (1) Dalton gets sacked, (2) Dalton misses by a mile, or (3) receivers get the drops. That's a lot of problem areas packed into those results.

Gruden has done a terrible job in second games against teams in a season. So far, his offense has performed WORSE each time. Our recent wins over Balt and Pitt were in spite of the offense, not on the back of it. Defense is carrying us right now. To me, this shows he's just not a very good strategist. He has one plan, if it works we look great--but if they counter it, he never has a successful response. In that regard, we get horribly outcoached all the time.

My worry is, we faced a dreadful OL (and weak D) in Philly, and came way too close to losing that game (their turnovers won that game for us). On paper, we have most of the advantages against Houston--which doesn't seem to bode well for us. But we can overcome all of that by getting the passing game back on track.

This week is on Gruden. He's the OC. He's gotta get the passing game fixed. If he does and we win, he deserves many accolades. But if he doesn't fix this thing and get the passing game working and come up with solutions to Houston's counters to his gameplan, then we gotta get a new OC. It's his job. He's the one to hold accountable if Dalton & Co. play on Saturday the way they've been playing of late.

I think we'll win if the offense plays alright. But if it's another week of sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, etc... then I don't think we'll win and don't think Gruden deserves to come back next year.

#1 That is exactly what is happening now, double/triple AJ because nobody else is really stepping up (like L Coles in 09) But we had a stout defense in 09 and a much better run game and still got smashed.

#2 I feel your pain,,,we see the same problems and call them out as we ultimately know the end result yet get called haters, debby downers,,negative nancy, ect ect....

#3 This couldnt be more true,,,Zimmer is our best coach right now, and even he sometimes makes me scratch my head,,grudens game just isnt very well right now and i think this whole board knows my feelings about marv.

#4 Despite what many on here think, i actually agree with this,,as long as our D doesnt fold and allow 30+ points and our offense at least looks respectable, i believe we have a legit shot at our first playoff win in 2 decades, which is why i wanted the texans over denver or pats because i dont believe we have a chance in hell of beating those two. If i could see some more level headed calls from coaching, and more consistency on offense then i would believe we have a shot at beating one of those two teams, but i just dont see it.

[Marlon23]

Marvin Jones is stepping up more and more but it will take time before defense looks at him as a serious threat maybe even into next year. We get Sanu back he will hopefully continue his great play and Gresham we need to target him more I believe. We always go to him straight down the middle. I really like for us to run a screen or two for him he is so big but if can pick up 5-7 yards then we have a great opportunity to pick up the first with Ben. We then have Hawk on some screens I really think the players are solid, but some plays need to be designed to really open up these guys ability. I have not even spoke about AJ yet... so once we utilitize these guys a little more with better play calling, I really think AJ will be even better than he is projected to be.

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by Marlon23

Marvin Jones is stepping up more and more but it will take time before defense looks at him as a serious threat maybe even into next year. We get Sanu back he will hopefully continue his great play and Gresham we need to target him more I believe. We always go to him straight down the middle. I really like for us to run a screen or two for him he is so big but if can pick up 5-7 yards then we have a great opportunity to pick up the first with Ben. We then have Hawk on some screens I really think the players are solid, but some plays need to be designed to really open up these guys ability. I have not even spoke about AJ yet... so once we utilitize these guys a little more with better play calling, I really think AJ will be even better than he is projected to be.

I agree, right now AJ is the only threat teams worry about yet he still got better and is balling,,imagine how much better he would be if we had a viable #2 as well as pockets that lasted a little longer for andy,,,,WOW i could realisticly see him leading the NFL in all WR cats,,,catches, yards,,TDs

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by fumetti

Here we are, entering the playoffs with a new QB and new WRs and the same old mess creeps up again. In 2009, Palmer fell off a cliff. His passes were ridiculously off-target, especially long passes. Teams just double-teamed Chad and took their (very good) chances one-on-one everywhere else. Palmer struggled all through the last 6 games and barely scooted past very weak defenses in Detroit, Kansas City, and Cleveland. The Cincy media blasted concerned fans and twisted our complaints into gripes over "style points." I sent an email to J Reedy about his story where he referred to Cincy's over-reliance on the run as a "strategy." I told him that "strategy" would get Cincy a quick exit in the playoffs. He responded about how disgruntled and *****y Bengals fans had become. Well guess what story he wrote the day after the Jets loss? It sure wasn't a defense of Lewis's "strategy." the passing game inexplicably collapsed and Cincy had no way of coming back against the Jets.

I see the same pattern occurring. Again the passing game is atrocious, and again it is overshadowed by wins. "Hey, we're 7-1 in the last 8 games, watcha cryin' about, fumetti?" Well, I don't want to see history repeat itself this year. Last year Cincy had a rough time at the end of the season and went into Houston limping a bit offensively. We're doing it again this year. Dalton's been sacked how many times in the last month, 17? Dalton threw 10 long passes vs Pitt and connected on just 3? (The only important pass vs Pitt was the last one.) And nothing looked better vs Balt. One good drive that started on the Balt 42 or so--after Balt had started substituting on defense.

There is something terrible going on with our passing game. Most of the time it seems we alternate between three results, esp on longer passes: (1) Dalton gets sacked, (2) Dalton misses by a mile, or (3) receivers get the drops. That's a lot of problem areas packed into those results.

Gruden has done a terrible job in second games against teams in a season. So far, his offense has performed WORSE each time. Our recent wins over Balt and Pitt were in spite of the offense, not on the back of it. Defense is carrying us right now. To me, this shows he's just not a very good strategist. He has one plan, if it works we look great--but if they counter it, he never has a successful response. In that regard, we get horribly outcoached all the time.

My worry is, we faced a dreadful OL (and weak D) in Philly, and came way too close to losing that game (their turnovers won that game for us). On paper, we have most of the advantages against Houston--which doesn't seem to bode well for us. But we can overcome all of that by getting the passing game back on track.

This week is on Gruden. He's the OC. He's gotta get the passing game fixed. If he does and we win, he deserves many accolades. But if he doesn't fix this thing and get the passing game working and come up with solutions to Houston's counters to his gameplan, then we gotta get a new OC. It's his job. He's the one to hold accountable if Dalton & Co. play on Saturday the way they've been playing of late.

I think we'll win if the offense plays alright. But if it's another week of sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, etc... then I don't think we'll win and don't think Gruden deserves to come back next year.

Wah. ..wah. ...wah. ...are you finso using another screen name? I am pretty certain they realize what they need to improve upon. If not they could just come to these boards and learn how to fix everything and win 10 Superbowls in a row.

We just finished off the season with a 7-1 run yet from these boards you would think it was 1-7. Yeah God forbid they go into the playoffs looking to run the ball productively and play great defense. I mean that never worked for Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

[ExtraNirvana]

Try blaming Green he has left a lot of catches on the field since Dallas. He's great but Green needs to step up too.

[fumetti]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

In 09 our passing g game was hot until Henry got hurt. Sane thing happened this year when SanU got hurt.

Great point. I forgot to include that. Thanks.

Too many similarities for me to feel comfortable with our passing game right now.

[fumetti]

Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike

Well thanks for catching an awesome buzz, or sniffing paint, or your parents going out tonight.

Andy is fine,

1) Don't assume I live like you do.

2) Keep those rosy glasses. You'll need them next week if we don't see a better effort on Saturday.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by fumetti

Great point. I forgot to include that. Thanks.

Too many similarities for me to feel comfortable with our passing game right now.

Just one major problem with your theory. ...this is not 09 so it does not matter.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by fumetti

1) Don't assume I live like you do.

2) Keep those rosy glasses. You'll need them next week if we don't see a better effort on Saturday.

I will take the glasses over the big ole giant stick that is up your keyster!

[fumetti]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

2012 Dalton > 2009 Dalton

Dalton has 575 more yards, 5 more tds and a better passer rating.

That said, the pass protection isn't nearly as good (26 sacks in '09, 47 this year), and I agree that our passing game has tailed off in a similar fashion to '09. Still, I think we'll be able to pass against the Texans. I don't think we'll see our guys get shut down like Palmer, Chad and Coles were in the Jets wc game.

I'm hoping you're right. This team doesn't have the same "aw, shucks, we're in a playoff game!" mindset this time around.

I'm usually worried about Cincy's mindset (it's really our biggest problem), but I think they're going to Houston kinda ticked off.

What worries me is that I don't believe we'll see the 1-4 Texans of late. I believe we'll see the 11-1 Texans that has talent everywhere on the field. I think our hands will be full. That's why I'm worried about the passing game.

*Both teams are going into this week hoping to play like an earlier self, at least on offense. It'll be up to our defense--which does not handle good passers very well--to keep this from happening.

[fumetti]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wah. ..wah. ...wah. ...are you finso using another screen name? I am pretty certain they realize what they need to improve upon. If not they could just come to these boards and learn how to fix everything and win 10 Superbowls in a row.

We just finished off the season with a 7-1 run yet from these boards you would think it was 1-7. Yeah God forbid they go into the playoffs looking to run the ball productively and play great defense. I mean that never worked for Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

Is there a term for people who are trolls FOR a site?

Looks like you and some others just go trolling for any kind of "negative" (by your perception) post or thread to bash on.

Prove me wrong if you can. Otherwise you're just static.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by OSUfan

Wah. ..wah. ...wah. ...are you finso using another screen name? I am pretty certain they realize what they need to improve upon. If not they could just come to these boards and learn how to fix everything and win 10 Superbowls in a row.

We just finished off the season with a 7-1 run yet from these boards you would think it was 1-7. Yeah God forbid they go into the playoffs looking to run the ball productively and play great defense. I mean that never worked for Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

Agreed with the passing game.all we can do is fans is hammer the front office about the oc getting it done.with this cold weather this week, the houston texans have the advantage of being able to practice indoors. our guys, i know hate practiceing outdoors in this crap.wheres the bubble, mikey????also, the receivers MUST COME back to the ball at times. otherwise, we will see interceptions again,that place will be crazy loud and unless they are practicing the silent count, we will struggle. its going to be nuts.we can win this thing if our passing game starts to click. otherwise , they will key off on stopping the run.remember, we have a bunch of rooks starting this game and that will show up at times in this one.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by fumetti

Is there a term for people who are trolls FOR a team?

Looks like you and some others just go trolling for any kind of "negative" (by your perception) post or thread to bash on.

Prove me wrong if you can. Otherwise you're just static.

I do not need to prove anything to you. As so many say about Marvin this team will win in spite of you. Now remove the stick and smile.

[fumetti]

Originally Posted by Marlon23

Marvin Jones is stepping up more and more but it will take time before defense looks at him as a serious threat maybe even into next year. We get Sanu back he will hopefully continue his great play and Gresham we need to target him more I believe. We always go to him straight down the middle. I really like for us to run a screen or two for him he is so big but if can pick up 5-7 yards then we have a great opportunity to pick up the first with Ben. We then have Hawk on some screens I really think the players are solid, but some plays need to be designed to really open up these guys ability. I have not even spoke about AJ yet... so once we utilitize these guys a little more with better play calling, I really think AJ will be even better than he is projected to be.

I hope the answer to the #2 spot is already on the team.

I'm not as confident as you sound, but Sanu sure was promising. Marvin Jones drops too many passes right now for me to be confident Saturday. If he gets his hands right, he can do some damage. Houston just has J-Jo and not a lot else.

There's nothing about Houston's secondary right now that says Dalton can't get at least 200 yards and 2 TDs. Their biggest gun is Watts and our OL has been having a fire sale on sacks--plentiful and cheap.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by fumetti

Is there a term for people who are trolls FOR a site?

Looks like you and some others just go trolling for any kind of "negative" (by your perception) post or thread to bash on.

Prove me wrong if you can. Otherwise you're just static.

Yeah it is called fans.

[fumetti]

Originally Posted by ExtraNirvana

Try blaming Green he has left a lot of catches on the field since Dallas. He's great but Green needs to step up too.

He's had a lot of drops lately.

I can think of a big one, a 30-yarder, dropped that would have likely won the game vs Dallas.

[McC]

Originally Posted by fumetti

I'm hoping you're right. This team doesn't have the same "aw, shucks, we're in a playoff game!" mindset this time around.

I'm usually worried about Cincy's mindset (it's really our biggest problem), but I think they're going to Houston kinda ticked off.

What worries me is that I don't believe we'll see the 1-4 Texans of late. I believe we'll see the 11-1 Texans that has talent everywhere on the field. I think our hands will be full. That's why I'm worried about the passing game.

*Both teams are going into this week hoping to play like an earlier self, at least on offense. It'll be up to our defense--which does not handle good passers very well--to keep this from happening.

Handled Ben pretty well.

I don't think the Texans are gonna lay down either. That dome will be loud as hell, Andre is still a best, Foster will be running hard, Watt will be tough to handle. Andy may well be running for his life.At their worst, they're no slouch. At their best, they're as good as anyone. They're not gonna just hand it over. We'll just have to take it. And that's the one thing that has really developed this year--finding a way to win.

I do think Houston may have a bit of a psyche problem that can be amplified with a fast start to fire up the thoughts of "Here we go again." It'll be a brawl and we've turned into a pretty damn good brawler. I like our chances despite our weaknesses. Hey, every team's got 'em. Figuring out how to overcome them is what separates the men from the boys.