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  #76  
Old 01-01-2013, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Originally Posted by jack1953 View Post
I am not disagreeing with the offense struggles, but it needs to be said again and again......DEFENSE AND SPECIAL TEAMS WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

If that were NOT the case, the 2000 Ravens, the 2002 Buccaneers, and the 2011 Giants (9-7) could NEVER have won a playoff game, let alone the Super Bowl!!!

We arent the 2000 ravens or 02 bucs,,those defenses were superior to ours,,especially the ravens. The giants had a defense as well as a decent offense.

Not too mention but the 2000 ravens not only had one of the best defenses EVER in football history but also had a stout running game, our run game is average at best, our defense is def above average but not 2000 raven. All those teams also had better HCs
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  #77  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BoomerFan View Post
The answer: GRESHAM GRESHAM AND MORE GRESHAM

QB getting a little inaccurate? Throw it to your monster sized TE.

Screens not looking polished? Just play 'plain old keep away' and throw it to your TE

TE not doing a great job blocking? Throw it to him

#2 WR still developing? Throw it to your TE.

Getting picked at the line (remember last year against Houston)? Throw high arcing short passes to your tall TE

Not winning in the playoffs and lacking offensive rhythm even when you can pound out some yards on the ground? THROW IT TO YOUR TE


I have to agree with this,,,its beyond me how we supposedly got the best TE in that draft yet all other others drafted are playing better than gresh,,,is it gresh,,,or do we just not involve him enough? I mean honestly i just dont get why in the world when we have no viable #2 to take heat off AJ why we arent pounding it to gresh more often and make him the viable 2 and MAKE teams respect our TE so they dont double/triple AJ as much and if they do our TE will make them pay. Just dont get it.
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  #78  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
The only argument that could be made would be Gresham. ...Charles. .....Gresham......maybe this is a perfect time to get Charles more involved in the game plan. Charles has shown to have good hands and abilities in his limited time. I believe utilizing Charles more in tandem with Gresham could help ease the pressure on Marvin Jones and make him more productive as well.

For the rare time i agree with you,,,i really wish we would run more double TE sets with gresh and charles i think it could work wonders just like with the pats and gronk/hernadez
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  #79  
Old 01-01-2013, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Originally Posted by BoomerFan View Post
The answer: GRESHAM GRESHAM AND MORE GRESHAM

QB getting a little inaccurate? Throw it to your monster sized TE.

Screens not looking polished? Just play 'plain old keep away' and throw it to your TE

TE not doing a great job blocking? Throw it to him

#2 WR still developing? Throw it to your TE.

Getting picked at the line (remember last year against Houston)? Throw high arcing short passes to your tall TE

Not winning in the playoffs and lacking offensive rhythm even when you can pound out some yards on the ground? THROW IT TO YOUR TE
I could get on board with this....if Gresham learns how to catch the ball over the next few days....
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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I could get on board with this....if Gresham learns how to catch the ball over the next few days....
...and not fumble if he does catch it.
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  #81  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Andy has contributed to the number of sacks. He has a bad habit of holding the ball too long, or running out of the pocket after holding it too long. This may improve in time with experience or improved options.
What baffles me is he seems to absolutely refuse to throw the ball away most of the time. I don't know if he just doesn't want to give up on a play or what.
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  #82  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:25 PM
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What baffles me is he seems to absolutely refuse to throw the ball away most of the time. I don't know if he just doesn't want to give up on a play or what.
That's pretty much it. Last year he was quick to throw the ball away and go on to the next down. This year he's held on to the ball longer looking to extend plays, don't forget how Marvin has gone on this year about "unscripted plays". That's going to lead to more sacks. The biggest thing is if he's learning from the experience and when it's more beneficial to throw it away or try and make a play.
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  #83  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:28 PM
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That's pretty much it. Last year he was quick to throw the ball away and go on to the next down. This year he's held on to the ball longer looking to extend plays, don't forget how Marvin has gone on this year about "unscripted plays". That's going to lead to more sacks. The biggest thing is if he's learning from the experience and when it's more beneficial to throw it away or try and make a play.
Seems like I've seen him roll out of the pocket and be way outside the tackles and take a sack for a loss or run out of bounds for a loss rather than just chucking it away. He's an intelligent QB so I'm sure he'll get better at this, but the short term is sometimes painful/frustrating to watch him take so many sacks.
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  #84  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:31 PM
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Seems like I've seen him roll out of the pocket and be way outside the tackles and take a sack for a loss or run out of bounds for a loss rather than just chucking it away. He's an intelligent QB so I'm sure he'll get better at this, but the short term is sometimes painful/frustrating to watch him take so many sacks.
It's frustrating, yes. He's made a couple plays near the sideline this year and last, so i guess he holds it as long as possible, just in case someone gets open late. Half of it is on the receivers too. They need to learn the "get open" part as he's scrambling and not just run their route and stand there while he scrambles.
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  #85  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Originally Posted by fumetti View Post
Here we are, entering the playoffs with a new QB and new WRs and the same old mess creeps up again. In 2009, Palmer fell off a cliff. His passes were ridiculously off-target, especially long passes. Teams just double-teamed Chad and took their (very good) chances one-on-one everywhere else. Palmer struggled all through the last 6 games and barely scooted past very weak defenses in Detroit, Kansas City, and Cleveland. The Cincy media blasted concerned fans and twisted our complaints into gripes over "style points." I sent an email to J Reedy about his story where he referred to Cincy's over-reliance on the run as a "strategy." I told him that "strategy" would get Cincy a quick exit in the playoffs. He responded about how disgruntled and *****y Bengals fans had become. Well guess what story he wrote the day after the Jets loss? It sure wasn't a defense of Lewis's "strategy." the passing game inexplicably collapsed and Cincy had no way of coming back against the Jets.

I see the same pattern occurring. Again the passing game is atrocious, and again it is overshadowed by wins. "Hey, we're 7-1 in the last 8 games, watcha cryin' about, fumetti?" Well, I don't want to see history repeat itself this year. Last year Cincy had a rough time at the end of the season and went into Houston limping a bit offensively. We're doing it again this year. Dalton's been sacked how many times in the last month, 17? Dalton threw 10 long passes vs Pitt and connected on just 3? (The only important pass vs Pitt was the last one.) And nothing looked better vs Balt. One good drive that started on the Balt 42 or so--after Balt had started substituting on defense.

There is something terrible going on with our passing game. Most of the time it seems we alternate between three results, esp on longer passes: (1) Dalton gets sacked, (2) Dalton misses by a mile, or (3) receivers get the drops. That's a lot of problem areas packed into those results.

Gruden has done a terrible job in second games against teams in a season. So far, his offense has performed WORSE each time. Our recent wins over Balt and Pitt were in spite of the offense, not on the back of it. Defense is carrying us right now. To me, this shows he's just not a very good strategist. He has one plan, if it works we look great--but if they counter it, he never has a successful response. In that regard, we get horribly outcoached all the time.

My worry is, we faced a dreadful OL (and weak D) in Philly, and came way too close to losing that game (their turnovers won that game for us). On paper, we have most of the advantages against Houston--which doesn't seem to bode well for us. But we can overcome all of that by getting the passing game back on track.

This week is on Gruden. He's the OC. He's gotta get the passing game fixed. If he does and we win, he deserves many accolades. But if he doesn't fix this thing and get the passing game working and come up with solutions to Houston's counters to his gameplan, then we gotta get a new OC. It's his job. He's the one to hold accountable if Dalton & Co. play on Saturday the way they've been playing of late.

I think we'll win if the offense plays alright. But if it's another week of sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, etc... then I don't think we'll win and don't think Gruden deserves to come back next year.
I agree with your concern. Some have said that Sanu is the reason our offense has struggled. I say a good OC would be able to compensate for the loss of your #2 receiver by utillizing your other offensive weapons. In time maybe Jay Gruden will be able to do so. I hope he figures it out soon because if he doesn't out season will end very soon, and if he doesn't, perhaps Hue could "assist" him.
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  #86  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

"Hey, we're 7-1 in the last 8 games, watcha cryin' about, fumetti?"
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  #87  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Originally Posted by BoomerFan View Post
The answer: GRESHAM GRESHAM AND MORE GRESHAM

QB getting a little inaccurate? Throw it to your monster sized TE.

Screens not looking polished? Just play 'plain old keep away' and throw it to your TE

TE not doing a great job blocking? Throw it to him

#2 WR still developing? Throw it to your TE.

Getting picked at the line (remember last year against Houston)? Throw high arcing short passes to your tall TE

Not winning in the playoffs and lacking offensive rhythm even when you can pound out some yards on the ground? THROW IT TO YOUR TE
I like this idea. The only problem is Gresham needs to catch the ball too.
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  #88  
Old 01-02-2013, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Wah. ..wah. ...wah. ...are you finso using another screen name? I am pretty certain they realize what they need to improve upon. If not they could just come to these boards and learn how to fix everything and win 10 Superbowls in a row.

We just finished off the season with a 7-1 run yet from these boards you would think it was 1-7. Yeah God forbid they go into the playoffs looking to run the ball productively and play great defense. I mean that never worked for Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

Good luck running against Denver. Manning is going to put up 30 points, and you can't match him if you can't throw the ball.
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  #89  
Old 01-02-2013, 02:56 AM
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I agree with your concern. Some have said that Sanu is the reason our offense has struggled. I say a good OC would be able to compensate for the loss of your #2 receiver by utillizing your other offensive weapons. In time maybe Jay Gruden will be able to do so. I hope he figures it out soon because if he doesn't out season will end very soon, and if he doesn't, perhaps Hue could "assist" him.
It's not Sanu, it's the pass rush disrupting Andy.
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  #90  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Wah. ..wah. ...wah. ...are you finso using another screen name? I am pretty certain they realize what they need to improve upon. If not they could just come to these boards and learn how to fix everything and win 10 Superbowls in a row.

We just finished off the season with a 7-1 run yet from these boards you would think it was 1-7. Yeah God forbid they go into the playoffs looking to run the ball productively and play great defense. I mean that never worked for Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

Hahahaha...it completely astounds me how horrible of a poster you constantly are. The way you talk about this team, people would think that they've won the last five Super Bowls and that we have at least 35 current players that would be first ballot HOFers. Your inability to admit that there are rough spots on this team and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge them in any thread is straight up ridiculous.

It doesn't matter to you that there was a well thought out, well written post pointing out a deficiency on this team that everyone (except for maybe you) is a bit worried about. Fact is....this team has a few problems. Too many to overcome? No, but certainly enough to warrant conversation about it. Yet you dismiss the conversation then get all trolly about it because you have ZERO argument that he's wrong in his concern. All you did was babble....you made no argument as to why this isn't a good assessment and laid out no reason as to why you think this pass offense is rocking it right now.

Yep....everyone is hyped about the playoffs. Everyone knows that they're going in on a 7-1 run. It doesn't mean that people can't discuss a legitimate issue. Silliness.

Troll on, OSU.
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  #91  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:33 AM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Originally Posted by fumetti View Post
Here we are, entering the playoffs with a new QB and new WRs and the same old mess creeps up again. In 2009, Palmer fell off a cliff. His passes were ridiculously off-target, especially long passes. Teams just double-teamed Chad and took their (very good) chances one-on-one everywhere else. Palmer struggled all through the last 6 games and barely scooted past very weak defenses in Detroit, Kansas City, and Cleveland. The Cincy media blasted concerned fans and twisted our complaints into gripes over "style points." I sent an email to J Reedy about his story where he referred to Cincy's over-reliance on the run as a "strategy." I told him that "strategy" would get Cincy a quick exit in the playoffs. He responded about how disgruntled and *****y Bengals fans had become. Well guess what story he wrote the day after the Jets loss? It sure wasn't a defense of Lewis's "strategy." the passing game inexplicably collapsed and Cincy had no way of coming back against the Jets.

I see the same pattern occurring. Again the passing game is atrocious, and again it is overshadowed by wins. "Hey, we're 7-1 in the last 8 games, watcha cryin' about, fumetti?" Well, I don't want to see history repeat itself this year. Last year Cincy had a rough time at the end of the season and went into Houston limping a bit offensively. We're doing it again this year. Dalton's been sacked how many times in the last month, 17? Dalton threw 10 long passes vs Pitt and connected on just 3? (The only important pass vs Pitt was the last one.) And nothing looked better vs Balt. One good drive that started on the Balt 42 or so--after Balt had started substituting on defense.

There is something terrible going on with our passing game. Most of the time it seems we alternate between three results, esp on longer passes: (1) Dalton gets sacked, (2) Dalton misses by a mile, or (3) receivers get the drops. That's a lot of problem areas packed into those results.

Gruden has done a terrible job in second games against teams in a season. So far, his offense has performed WORSE each time. Our recent wins over Balt and Pitt were in spite of the offense, not on the back of it. Defense is carrying us right now. To me, this shows he's just not a very good strategist. He has one plan, if it works we look great--but if they counter it, he never has a successful response. In that regard, we get horribly outcoached all the time.

My worry is, we faced a dreadful OL (and weak D) in Philly, and came way too close to losing that game (their turnovers won that game for us). On paper, we have most of the advantages against Houston--which doesn't seem to bode well for us. But we can overcome all of that by getting the passing game back on track.

This week is on Gruden. He's the OC. He's gotta get the passing game fixed. If he does and we win, he deserves many accolades. But if he doesn't fix this thing and get the passing game working and come up with solutions to Houston's counters to his gameplan, then we gotta get a new OC. It's his job. He's the one to hold accountable if Dalton & Co. play on Saturday the way they've been playing of late.

I think we'll win if the offense plays alright. But if it's another week of sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, sack, incompletion, 1 yard run, etc... then I don't think we'll win and don't think Gruden deserves to come back next year.
All legitimate concerns, though the way some people talk, you would think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with they way the passing Offense has performed as of late. Like I said earlier,...I don't think this is all on Dalton, or anyone else in specific for that matter. The team just hasn't meshed well or performed up to it's potential in that area.

I think a lot of the problems have to do with the O-Line and how horrible they've been in pass protection at times. Dalton rarely has a pocket, and he has to try to make plays happen. In the instances in which he does get a decent pocket, he still ends up scrambling away for one reason or another. His receivers drop too many balls, and a lot of the time fail to get open. Other times, there is a guy wide open out there, but Dalton either doesn't see him, or doesn't get the time to get it to him.

Look, I think he's a damned good QB, and he's got plenty of upside, but he also still has a lot to learn. Give him another year or two, and he'll be a top 8 or so guy at his position. Which, with a Defense like this and A.J. Green to back him up will be good enough for a bunch of playoff wins.

As for ditching Gruden....I can't get on board with this one. I mean, if he left, I don't think he'd be hard to replace, but I still would like to see him get some time to fully instill his offense here, and get it all going. I'm not a big fan of getting rid of a coach within 3 years,....unless he really....REALLY blows. Give him time to get it going.

And you're right....if this Offense performs like it did up until the Cowboys game, this will be a win against Houston. If it comes out and plays like it did against the Steelers and the Eagles, then the D better come up with some huge plays or this game will be a loss.

ANNNNNND....the Bengals will win it. I think the Offense will do just enough to let the Defense hold them down and we win a close one that comes down to the last few minutes.
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  #92  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:04 AM
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The passing game is actually a big issue regardless of whether people want to admit it or not. It hasn't looked good in the last 4 games.....at all. Now, I don't think all of the blame deserves to fall on Dalton, or any other person for that matter. It's a combination of things that makes this passing offense less than desirable.

The O-Line has stunk it up at pass protection recently, and the receiving corps (outside of Green) is pretty below average. Our receivers drop balls constantly and a lot of them fail to get open with any consistency. With that said....SOME of the blame lies on Dalton. I've seen tons of plays where he gets a decent pocket, but runs away from it anyway. There are other times where there is a guy out there completely open, and for one reason or another, he fails to get them the ball.

He looks like a good QB to me though....he's just having a rough time. He isn't Brady or Manning, so everyone should quit expecting him to be. He's just a solid QB that will do some good things but also make some boneheaded moves. If he isn't performing better in a couple years, I would say there is a reason for concern, but at this point I'm not concerned with his overall ability to play the game.

I absolutely agree with you on this. Hmmm, last four games, what could have happened during the last four games? Maybe a major move jacking up the chemistry of the offensive line by inserting Cook, who has been mediocre, and is only a starter because he was a better option than Eric Ghuiciac(sp?) and Jeff Faine. Robinson should have been left in for rest of the season.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:28 PM
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I absolutely agree with you on this. Hmmm, last four games, what could have happened during the last four games? Maybe a major move jacking up the chemistry of the offensive line by inserting Cook, who has been mediocre, and is only a starter because he was a better option than Eric Ghuiciac(sp?) and Jeff Faine. Robinson should have been left in for rest of the season.
For sure. Sitting Robinson down in favor of Cook was a huge mistake in my eyes. The Line was working a lot better than expected, and when they took him out, you could actually see the drop off big time. I'm hoping that they watch some film on it before the game on Saturday, and they see the drop off as well.

That plus Marvin Jones producing, and the pass game might be ok....
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:29 PM
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...and not fumble if he does catch it.
He'll get there eventually, but at this point, Gresham is just unreliable. He's good one game, then just looks rough the next. He'll catch on.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:31 PM
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He'll get there eventually, but at this point, Gresham is just unreliable. He's good one game, then just looks rough the next. He'll catch on.
he only plays well when his ****** off..

I keep telling someone to wear a steelers jersey and go slap his momma before each game.
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  #96  
Old 01-02-2013, 07:44 PM
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What worries me is that I don't believe we'll see the 1-4 Texans of late. I believe we'll see the 11-1 Texans that has talent everywhere on the field. I think our hands will be full. That's why I'm worried about the passing game.
Just curious (not calling you a troll or anything) but why do you assume the Texans will play like they did earlier in the year, but not the Bengals?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:47 PM
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For sure. Sitting Robinson down in favor of Cook was a huge mistake in my eyes. The Line was working a lot better than expected, and when they took him out, you could actually see the drop off big time. I'm hoping that they watch some film on it before the game on Saturday, and they see the drop off as well.
Yes it is obviously that simple. Men who have made their careers coaching and worked their way up to the highest level of their prpofession (NFL) just don't watch film and/or do not know as much about football as fans.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:52 PM
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bengals Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Originally Posted by Dabo614 View Post
For the rare time i agree with you,,,i really wish we would run more double TE sets with gresh and charles i think it could work wonders just like with the pats and gronk/hernadez
Strange things do happen. ..lol.

I just think in his limited downs that Charles has showed some skills. He seems to run good routes and appears to have really good hands. I just feel he is another weapon that this offense needs to maximize.

I think Charles could cause some matchup problems if they were to occasionally line him up in the slot on multi receiver sets.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

In 2009 our passing game was clicking unytil Henry got injured, Then teams started bracketing Chad and neiother Coles or Caldwell could do anything against single coverage.

This year the exact same thing has happened. Our passing game is struggling becuase we don't have a legit #2 WR since Sanu got injured.

All the hype about Binns and Tate was just a smoke screen to keep the natives pacified until Sanu and/or Jones could develope into a legit NFL threat. If the team really had that much faith in Binns and/or Tate then they would not have spent two draft picks on WRs.

So it isn't the coaching, unless you believe Gruden was brilliant for a while and then just coincidentally forgot how to coach at the exact same time that Sanu got injured.

So I am very concerned about our passing gamer, but I don't think it is the coaches fault. And the one thing we have going for us this year that we didn't have in '09 is a receiving threat at TE. Gresham is not All-Pro, but he is better than Foshi and Coats.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Passing game looks alot like the mess of 2009...

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Originally Posted by fredtoast View Post
Yes it is obviously that simple. Men who have made their careers coaching and worked their way up to the highest level of their prpofession (NFL) just don't watch film and/or do not know as much about football as fans.
It would be ignorant to think there isn't some politics involved. Maybe they wanted to work Cook back into the lineup, but now they know if they sit Cook it will be "admitting a mistake". It's obvious to anyone with a set of eyes that our line play has dropped off since Cook came back. It doesn't take NFL level evaluation skills to see that.
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From 2006-2013, this team has never finished higher than 20th in yards per carry. They've had an average rank of 27th during those 8 seasons.

During those 8 seasons, we've had several starting RBs, different starters on the o-line, different TEs and FBs and 2 different RB coaches. Only our o-line coach remained the same.
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