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  #101  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:49 PM
Xs&Os Xs&Os is offline
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by BengalzHacker View Post
So his entire Sr. season in college was one long fluke? Not buying it. It was his Sr. season Mayock had to work from not the results of history with this team.
BH; I just posted to Bryan's post. I will subscribe it as a post to yours as well.
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  #102  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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I understand that. My point has been that an undraftable designation is very harsh and has deleterious implications on a young man's livelihood. Coupled with the fact that he performed well on both fronts, I believe that the designation is/was unjustified.

My other point is that if a draft guy hypes a player who gets picked high and then busts, the fans scrutinize it. Did they not express that opinion based on college performance? Then why can't we scrutinize it when they are wrong, such as in this case?
Two seperate issues. But the one of most importance is the one about it being "deleterious" to Burfict. Don't you think that it was on Burfict to think of that before acting like a crazed idiot? That's not Mayock's fault at all.
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  #103  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Besides, are you not the one who watches hours and hours of tape?
I watch hours of regular games. I don't have sufficient funding to get all-22. So, give us all your knowledge here
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  #104  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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I understand that. My point has been that an undraftable designation is very harsh and has deleterious implications on a young man's livelihood. Coupled with the fact that he performed well on both fronts, I believe that the designation is/was unjustified.

My other point is that if a draft guy hypes a player who gets picked high and then busts, the fans scrutinize it. Did they not express that opinion based on college performance? Then why can't we scrutinize it when they are wrong, such as in this case?
It's different, a guy that has a great college career and is drafted relatively high and doesn't perform in the pros, is different from someone screwing themselves out of being drafted and possibly millions of dollars.
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  #105  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Two seperate issues. But the one of most importance is the one about it being "deleterious" to Burfict. Don't you think that it was on Burfict to think of that before acting like a crazed idiot? That's not Mayock's fault at all.
Young guys with Big-Man-On-Campus mentality make mistakes. He has done well here, and I am a big fan. That is my opinion and don't need another one's agreement to that end.

But if you can honestly say that his performance is at least a third round value, then the designation is unjustified. Draft guys are often wrong, and in this case, they were way off.
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  #106  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by eoxyod View Post
I watch hours of regular games. I don't have sufficient funding to get all-22. So, give us all your knowledge here
Then share your wisdome of hours of regular games.
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  #107  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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It's different, a guy that has a great college career and is drafted relatively high and doesn't perform in the pros, is different from someone screwing themselves out of being drafted and possibly millions of dollars.
I see it as the same, because it is the perspective of the draft player evaluators that I am discussing. They can be wrong both ways, but can they be justified in one but not the other?
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  #108  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Then share your wisdome of hours of regular games.
Why should he? He isn't the one who brags about his wisdom then doesn't share any.
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  #109  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Why should he? He isn't the one who brags about his wisdom then doesn't share any.
I have expressed mine, as it pertains to you. That should be enough.
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  #110  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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I have expressed mine, as it pertains to you. That should be enough.
No you haven't.
All you did was call me a child and tell me to watch high endzone footage.
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  #111  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by Xs&Os View Post
Young guys with Big-Man-On-Campus mentality make mistakes. He has done well here, and I am a big fan. That is my opinion and don't need another one's agreement to that end.

But if you can honestly say that his performance is at least a third round value, then the designation is unjustified. Draft guys are often wrong, and in this case, they were way off.
Again, two seperate issues mixed into one, let's stick to the first/third one in your statement:

Mistakes are one thing, but clearly you've not researched his history. He went from 1st round draft prospect in his Jr. year to benched by his Sr. year bowl game. That screams "UNDRAFTABLE CHARACTER". That's my evidence, my proof. Where is your evidence/proof that doesn't come from NFL history nor collegiate talent. The content of his collegiate charater, NOT talent, is what cost him.
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  #112  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Then share your wisdome of hours of regular games.
You just have to watch regular games.
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  #113  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

X&O's is one of the best trolls I've seen. He starts with an outrageous statement then attacks everyone's refutation of that statement. Classic. Well done, sir.
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  #114  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by Xs&Os View Post
No. I never said that Geno should receive the double Team. This is exactly what I mean about your football sense. The O-line dictates who gets doubled, and it was Peko getting doubled.

In a 3 technique, if the DT is constantly shooting a gap in the run game, you either run yourself out of the play or your G releases onto the MIKE. The 3 tech can maintain his gap just the same.

Peko plays the one-tech, and rarely zero tech (only in pass situations), even though on your chart he is designated as NT. You posted your chart implying that we run a 3-4, so I pointed out to you that we had to DEs designated on that list.

Just because my opinion is not a popular one, does not make it any less valid. Geno is one of the best pressure DTs in the pass game, but I woould take Sims over him in the run game.

You start this idiotic thread stating that I have stated that Geno is a defensive liability for us. Are you not embarassed to lie? I realize that we are communicating electronically, but your deliberately falsifying information is .........................................
A guard doesn't release to the Mike as a reaction, he would do that as part of play design. And I doubt Geno is freelancing and not maintaining gap integrity if that's his assignment on a particular defensive play call.

You may see a guard release to the second level and the DT that was over him run himself out of the play, but that's just the design of some plays (sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, sometimes the guy you don't block sniffs it out and tackles your RB in the backfield).

It's certainly not a guard reacting to undisciplined DT play and our run defense/LBs suffering as a result. That's just not happening, I promise you it's not.

Pat Sims is a nice bit player, Geno is a superstar. It's hard to imagine why you would prefer Sims over Geno in any facet. Maybe he can anchor better against a double team, idk,...... but Geno penetrates, disrupts and makes dynamic plays vs. both run and pass. Consistently, all year long Atkins has done this. Sims is just a guy. He's got value in the role he plays but he has always underachieved.
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  #115  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by savagehenry54 View Post
A guard doesn't release to the Mike as a reaction, he would do that as part of play design. And I doubt Geno is freelancing and not maintaining gap integrity if that's his assignment on a particular defensive play call.

You may see a guard release to the second level and the DT that was over him run himself out of the play, but that's just the design of some plays (sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, sometimes the guy you don't block sniffs it out and tackles your RB in the backfield).

It's certainly not a guard reacting to undisciplined DT play and our run defense/LBs suffering as a result. That's just not happening, I promise you it's not.

Pat Sims is a nice bit player, Geno is a superstar. It's hard to imagine why you would prefer Sims over Geno in any facet. Maybe he can anchor better against a double team, idk,...... but Geno penetrates, disrupts and makes dynamic plays vs. both run and pass. Consistently, all year long Atkins has done this. Sims is just a guy. He's got value in the role he plays but he has always underachieved.
Savage; you and I have had our differences in the past, but your posts have content and opinions expressed with justification. So, I won't rehash this conversation, but I prefer Sims for the same reason that you mentioned in that he anchors well against the run.
Since his return, our MIKE play has been elevated and run game improved. If a situational substitution is possible in the flow of the game, I prefer Sims in the run and Geno in pass situations.
Geno provides what we have always missed, which is interior penetration. Sims provides that interior anchor that we have sought since trying to sign Adams.

Last edited by Xs&Os; 01-03-2013 at 11:04 PM.
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  #116  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by Stink Noodle View Post
X&O's is one of the best trolls I've seen. He starts with an outrageous statement then attacks everyone's refutation of that statement. Classic. Well done, sir.
I don't know what a troll is, honestly. And I did not start this thread. Lastly; my opinions are not outrageous. They may not be popular, but they are not outrageous, nor without basis.

Last edited by Xs&Os; 01-03-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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  #117  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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No you haven't.
All you did was call me a child and tell me to watch high endzone footage.
We have had several discussions and your opinions are without basis. You delve into dramatics and fallacies. You post an article and pick and choose points from it to serve an incoherent line of reasoning.
I have asked that you at least have a discussion based on facts, and you can derive them from watching game tape from high end zone angle. O-line, D-line and run game can only be assessed from this angle.
If you do, we can then reconvene. Otherwise; it is a frustrating discussion for me to have with you.
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  #118  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

It doesn't matter what the position says on the roster for a defensive lineman. It only matters where they line up and in what technique -- and in the 4-3 there are many different technique permutations. Watch the Bengals line up on defense and you'll see a variety of formations. In fact, watch the opposing quarterback, because if you see him come up to the line, call a zillion audibles, then signal for a time out in sheer frustration, it is often because he saw a defensive formation designed to do something the offense he has on the field cannot exploit.
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  #119  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by Xs&Os View Post
We have had several discussions and your opinions are without basis. You delve into dramatics and fallacies. You post an article and pick and choose points from it to serve an incoherent line of reasoning.
I have asked that you at least have a discussion based on facts, and you can derive them from watching game tape from high end zone angle. O-line, D-line and run game can only be assessed from this angle.
If you do, we can then reconvene. Otherwise; it is a frustrating discussion for me to have with you.
You have done none of that. Well, you keep bringing up the high end zone angle like it was made of gold.
You keep saying you bring all these facts. You bring vague references to things and then call me childish.
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  #120  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Savage; you and I have had our differences in the past, but your posts have content and opinions expressed with justification. So, I won't rehash this conversation, but I prefer Sims for the same reason that you mentioned in that he anchors well against the run.
Since his return, our MIKE play has been elevated and run game improved. If a situational substitution is possible in the flow of the game, I prefer Sims in the run and Geno in pass situations.
Geno provides what we have always missed, which is interior penetration. Sims provides that interior anchor that we have sought since trying to sign Adams.
Geno is just too dynamic to situationally substitute. If he's giving anything to Sims run D wise, it ain't much and it aint' for long cuz I think Geno is able to be more active for more extended periods where as Sims seems much more suited to limited snaps and giving guys a rest here and there.

From what I could gather of your argument with Bezerk, you're both just antagonizing each other at this point. Zerk knows the game though, you're being dishonest when you suggest he's clueless, ignorant etc.. No one is buying that unless they just don't like the guy on a personal level.
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  #121  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

Also, something of note that I think X's might be assuming is from the return on Pat Sims, is the fact that 58 has really stepped up his game. He was making bad decisions, and getting himself out of position early in the year and Marvin called him out on that. Flat out told him he needed to be better. Since, he has been. Thats a credit to him. There are many things that factor into the defense resurrgance, Pat Sims included. To say its all him though I believe is inaccurate and naive.
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  #122  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

Weak thread!! Weak, weak, weak...all who responded (including myself) are now dumber for having read the comments. As a result, I award Beserker 0points and may God have mercy on his soul.

I can feel the childish enthusiasm from Beserker, it is palpitating, its almost...


wait for it....


completely pathetic!!!
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  #123  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:43 PM
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bengals Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by CoreyKlein7322 View Post
Weak thread!! Weak, weak, weak...all who responded (including myself) are now dumber for having read the comments. As a result, I award Beserker 0points and may God have mercy on his soul.

I can feel the childish enthusiasm from Beserker, it is palpitating, its almost...


wait for it....


completely pathetic!!!
You mean like your post?
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  #124  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

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Originally Posted by CoreyKlein7322 View Post
Weak thread!! Weak, weak, weak...all who responded (including myself) are now dumber for having read the comments. As a result, I award Beserker 0points and may God have mercy on his soul.

I can feel the childish enthusiasm from Beserker, it is palpitating, its almost...


wait for it....


completely pathetic!!!
Shut up.
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  #125  
Old 01-04-2013, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Xs&Os - Explanation time on Geno

Prior to each Bengal game, I sneak in early to the clubhouse and drill tiny cameras into the helmets of every Bengal player.

None of you have access to HELMET CAMS!
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