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Old 01-06-2013, 12:45 AM
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Default Who I blame and who I don't

So, unlike some, I'm not even close to being emotionally unstable. I can still reason, and I can still be reasonable. Yes, Dalton let us down on the last throw of the game, but I don't place the blame on his shoulders alone. So I'd just like to share some people I blame for the loss and some I don't

I blame:

Rey Maulaluga: The dude is flat out awful. The Texan's gameplan seemed to be abuse Rey and do for whomever he was covering and it was PAINFUL to watch. I am actually surprised that Zimmer didn't explode on him

Jay Gruden: You can't find a way to target the best playmaker on our team? It's funny, because the instant we started forcing the ball to AJ we actually got a pulse on offense... Imagine that OC. You get your best players the ball. And BJGE was on fire, but we couldn't sustain drives to actually feed him.

Jermaine Gresham: I love the guy, but you have to show up in big games! I don't blame his last "drop" as it was just a tremendous play by the Glover Quin but the first drop really got into his head and you could tell.

Entire O line: Everyone got beat at some point, and it made Dalton look far worse than he is... Not much needs to be said. Pass protection was awful minus a few plays, but the run game was doing very well.

Paul Alexander: lol

I DON'T blame:

Marvin Lewis: I don't know what you want from this guy. It seemed, for the most part, we were playing well. The defense was incredible, and if you take Rey out for a more talented player who knows how well we would have done. Our offense, when our line actually protected dalton, moved down the field. We RARELY got to move down the field because the o line was awful, but I blame PA for that.

Andy Dalton: For the first half Dalton was playing the pass game by himself. I remember one pass in particular on a 3rd and 11 where dalton spun out of a Watt sack and scrambled to his right. He threw a ROPE on the move to Andrew Hawkins and instead of running back to the ball, like any receiver would, he waited for the ball and it got knocked down. All year long Andy's receivers have let him down, and it makes people think he is much worse than he is. He got pressured all day, and when he finally had time he had to take coverage sacks. NO ONE would get open for him. Andy is only to blame for that last throw which was off by feet. Tough break.

Geno Atkins: No sacks, but the man was held ALL GAME LONG. It was starting to become a little ridiculous. He was still very disruptive in the run game, but I can't blame his poor rushing because there was some iffy play going on inside.

AJ Green: Some people were getting onto him for not making the catch where he got speared in the helmet by Kareem Jackson (and Andy as well) but I credit the defense for making a play instead of the offense letting it slip by. We all know JJoe has incredible, and sometimes deceptive, closing speed and is one hell of a player. I am a tad upset the spear wasn't called though. Inconsistent rules to protect the receivers

So there you have it... I don't blame Andy, he's not the issue. He's done in his first two seasons no quarterback in the history of our franchise has done, and you guys really want to can him? Please get a control of your emotions, and see he is going to be great for us. Drew Brees took a little while to develop too ya know. I'm over it, the game is done. I don't want marvin gone, I don't want Dalton gone, but I do expect progress to be made by this team. Sanu and Marvin Jones are gonna step up next year
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Well said. Can't argue with anything you posted.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

I agree with a lot of what you said but the biggest problem with the O was that they were not double teaming Watt for the first half. They finally got around to it in the second possesion of the 3rd and did not have as much of a problem. This is game planning. I agree that they have not been performing well the last few games though and Cook should have never came back.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by Spartan The Bengal View Post
So, unlike some, I'm not even close to being emotionally unstable. I can still reason, and I can still be reasonable. Yes, Dalton let us down on the last throw of the game, but I don't place the blame on his shoulders alone. So I'd just like to share some people I blame for the loss and some I don't

I blame:

Rey Maulaluga: The dude is flat out awful. The Texan's gameplan seemed to be abuse Rey and do for whomever he was covering and it was PAINFUL to watch. I am actually surprised that Zimmer didn't explode on him

Jay Gruden: You can't find a way to target the best playmaker on our team? It's funny, because the instant we started forcing the ball to AJ we actually got a pulse on offense... Imagine that OC. You get your best players the ball. And BJGE was on fire, but we couldn't sustain drives to actually feed him.

Jermaine Gresham: I love the guy, but you have to show up in big games! I don't blame his last "drop" as it was just a tremendous play by the Glover Quin but the first drop really got into his head and you could tell.

Entire O line: Everyone got beat at some point, and it made Dalton look far worse than he is... Not much needs to be said. Pass protection was awful minus a few plays, but the run game was doing very well.

Paul Alexander: lol

I DON'T blame:

Marvin Lewis: I don't know what you want from this guy. It seemed, for the most part, we were playing well. The defense was incredible, and if you take Rey out for a more talented player who knows how well we would have done. Our offense, when our line actually protected dalton, moved down the field. We RARELY got to move down the field because the o line was awful, but I blame PA for that.

Andy Dalton: For the first half Dalton was playing the pass game by himself. I remember one pass in particular on a 3rd and 11 where dalton spun out of a Watt sack and scrambled to his right. He threw a ROPE on the move to Andrew Hawkins and instead of running back to the ball, like any receiver would, he waited for the ball and it got knocked down. All year long Andy's receivers have let him down, and it makes people think he is much worse than he is. He got pressured all day, and when he finally had time he had to take coverage sacks. NO ONE would get open for him. Andy is only to blame for that last throw which was off by feet. Tough break.

Geno Atkins: No sacks, but the man was held ALL GAME LONG. It was starting to become a little ridiculous. He was still very disruptive in the run game, but I can't blame his poor rushing because there was some iffy play going on inside.

AJ Green: Some people were getting onto him for not making the catch where he got speared in the helmet by Kareem Jackson (and Andy as well) but I credit the defense for making a play instead of the offense letting it slip by. We all know JJoe has incredible, and sometimes deceptive, closing speed and is one hell of a player. I am a tad upset the spear wasn't called though. Inconsistent rules to protect the receivers

So there you have it... I don't blame Andy, he's not the issue. He's done in his first two seasons no quarterback in the history of our franchise has done, and you guys really want to can him? Please get a control of your emotions, and see he is going to be great for us. Drew Brees took a little while to develop too ya know. I'm over it, the game is done. I don't want marvin gone, I don't want Dalton gone, but I do expect progress to be made by this team. Sanu and Marvin Jones are gonna step up next year
Best thread yet
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by Spartan The Bengal View Post



Marvin Lewis: I don't know what you want from this guy. It seemed, for the most part, we were playing well.
It did? Please define "playing well."

That was one of the worst offensive performances I've seen in the playoffs from ANY team, EVER. Honest question: Are we the first team to not covert a single 3rd down in a playoff game? Has that ever happened before?

Marvin Lewis is the head coach, so I kinda hold him responsible for all parts of the gameplan and overall play. The offensive gameplan and play was beyond terrible, so he's partly responsible.

What I want from the guy is a playoff win. I want a team that shows up in big games more often than they do not. I have yet to get either. It's pretty simple.

If he gets no blame then how the heck are all these other head coaches getting axed left and right? Didn't Shottenheimer get fired after 14 wins one year? Lovie Smith is a defensive coach like Marvin and he just got canned for the failures of his offense. Their D was better than ours. And that guy won 10 games this year too, has been to a Superbowl, two NFC championships, and had over a .600 winning %.

What exactly is Marvin accountable for? Seriously.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan The Bengal View Post
So, unlike some, I'm not even close to being emotionally unstable. I can still reason, and I can still be reasonable. Yes, Dalton let us down on the last throw of the game, but I don't place the blame on his shoulders alone. So I'd just like to share some people I blame for the loss and some I don't

I blame:

Rey Maulaluga: The dude is flat out awful. The Texan's gameplan seemed to be abuse Rey and do for whomever he was covering and it was PAINFUL to watch. I am actually surprised that Zimmer didn't explode on him

Jay Gruden: You can't find a way to target the best playmaker on our team? It's funny, because the instant we started forcing the ball to AJ we actually got a pulse on offense... Imagine that OC. You get your best players the ball. And BJGE was on fire, but we couldn't sustain drives to actually feed him.

Jermaine Gresham: I love the guy, but you have to show up in big games! I don't blame his last "drop" as it was just a tremendous play by the Glover Quin but the first drop really got into his head and you could tell.

Entire O line: Everyone got beat at some point, and it made Dalton look far worse than he is... Not much needs to be said. Pass protection was awful minus a few plays, but the run game was doing very well.

Paul Alexander: lol

I DON'T blame:

Marvin Lewis: I don't know what you want from this guy. It seemed, for the most part, we were playing well. The defense was incredible, and if you take Rey out for a more talented player who knows how well we would have done. Our offense, when our line actually protected dalton, moved down the field. We RARELY got to move down the field because the o line was awful, but I blame PA for that.

Andy Dalton: For the first half Dalton was playing the pass game by himself. I remember one pass in particular on a 3rd and 11 where dalton spun out of a Watt sack and scrambled to his right. He threw a ROPE on the move to Andrew Hawkins and instead of running back to the ball, like any receiver would, he waited for the ball and it got knocked down. All year long Andy's receivers have let him down, and it makes people think he is much worse than he is. He got pressured all day, and when he finally had time he had to take coverage sacks. NO ONE would get open for him. Andy is only to blame for that last throw which was off by feet. Tough break.

Geno Atkins: No sacks, but the man was held ALL GAME LONG. It was starting to become a little ridiculous. He was still very disruptive in the run game, but I can't blame his poor rushing because there was some iffy play going on inside.

AJ Green: Some people were getting onto him for not making the catch where he got speared in the helmet by Kareem Jackson (and Andy as well) but I credit the defense for making a play instead of the offense letting it slip by. We all know JJoe has incredible, and sometimes deceptive, closing speed and is one hell of a player. I am a tad upset the spear wasn't called though. Inconsistent rules to protect the receivers

So there you have it... I don't blame Andy, he's not the issue. He's done in his first two seasons no quarterback in the history of our franchise has done, and you guys really want to can him? Please get a control of your emotions, and see he is going to be great for us. Drew Brees took a little while to develop too ya know. I'm over it, the game is done. I don't want marvin gone, I don't want Dalton gone, but I do expect progress to be made by this team. Sanu and Marvin Jones are gonna step up next year
A playoff win would be a nice start ! You really want me to believe that in 10 seasons Marvin and company have never had the talent to win a single playoff game ?

I can assure you with the right coaching staff and attitude (and the exact same players we've had) one single playoff win is a forgone conclusion ! ! !
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Agree with your points
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by Spartan The Bengal View Post
Rey Maulaluga: The dude is flat out awful. The Texan's gameplan seemed to be abuse Rey and do for whomever he was covering and it was PAINFUL to watch. I am actually surprised that Zimmer didn't explode on him

Jay Gruden: You can't find a way to target the best playmaker on our team? It's funny, because the instant we started forcing the ball to AJ we actually got a pulse on offense... Imagine that OC. You get your best players the ball. And BJGE was on fire, but we couldn't sustain drives to actually feed him.

Jermaine Gresham: I love the guy, but you have to show up in big games! I don't blame his last "drop" as it was just a tremendous play by the Glover Quin but the first drop really got into his head and you could tell.

Entire O line: Everyone got beat at some point, and it made Dalton look far worse than he is... Not much needs to be said. Pass protection was awful minus a few plays, but the run game was doing very well.

Paul Alexander: lol

Rey - Something's off in regards to him. Something makes me think he's got an injury that he's not talking about. That being said... that position can be upgraded quite easily.

Jay Gruden - TERRIBLE play calling. BJGE was on fire and yet they barely ran the ball for the first 3 quarters. And when they did... they got positive yards!!! Gruden needs to go. We need an OC that has a "run first attitude" that can open up the D and set up the pass. Look at Houston.. they ran the ball down our throats all night and just grinded our D down. Why couldn't we do the same?

Jermaine - you're spot on. They targeted him over and over at the onset of the game with no success. Dude, if you want to be a big time TE, you need to catch the damn ball.

O-line - didn't have a problem SO much with the O-line. Had we run more, there would have been less pressure on the O-line throughout the game. Can we upgrade this...? Easily.


In my opinion, the overthrown ball wasn't great and Andy needs to be more accurate with those throws, but it should NEVER come down to that. The play calling sequence was perfect on that drive. Had the two connected of course it would have been better... but if we would have seen MORE of the run, run, PA pass, mixed in with a bomb downfield, we'd have beaten them.

We have a suspect OC. Gruden needs to go. I heard Philly asked to meet with him. As far as I'm concerned, they can have him.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

There was one play that I think sums up our offense, and the reason I think Dalton needs to seriously improve in the off season.

I believe it was 2:13 left in the first half (can't be sure. I'll go back and watch the game tomorrow.)

Dalton drops back. He has no pressure on him yet. All four rushers are blocked. No major pressure.

It's 2nd and 8. Marvin Jones is tied up with Kareem Jackson. Within 2 seconds, Dalton throws it to his side. Jackson is still hanging on Marvin Jones. No way was Jones ever open, nor was he ever going to be open.

In addition: AJ Green had just broken over the middle on the other side of the field. The CB had turned his back and was out of position and there were no Linebackers immediately in his area. If he throws it to Green, he'd be wide open.

Three major problems with this play:
1. Andy Dalton is very skittish. And by skittish, I mean he's jittery in the pocket. He wants the ball to come out of his hands before the play even develops. This would make sense if he was about to be sacked, but he wasn't. It was a normal pass rush that was picked up and he had at least 2 more seconds to throw. If he waits a millisecond more, he'd have a 15 yard + reception to AJ Green. Instead he has a pointless incompletion to the secondary receiver.

2. Why is Dalton not going through his progressions? He looks at Jones. And see's he's covered. And throws it to him anyway. I understand that Jones was the first read on that play, but he shouldn't be the last. I've noticed this about Dalton. If he has a receiver in mind, he'll throw to that receiver regardless of the coverage. Usually that receiver is AJ Green, and that's fine because he often catches covered passes anyway, but not this time. It seemed like he did that with a lot of the Gresham passes too. Sure, Gresham should have caught 3 of those 5 passes that he dropped. But all 5 times, a guy was on his hip. There's gotta be more open people than that.

3. Why did the refs not call PI when Jackson is still hanging on Jones past 5 yards? I don't get it. They were dead set on the Bengals losing.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:07 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

I agree for the most part but Lewis has to take some blame.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

+1 Nice Assessment

gotta add weapons on Offense and depth on defense.

RB/WR/OL (eyes on you Cook)

Gruden needs to sort himself out, and Marvin needs to make sure we RUN THE BALL
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

one of the best posts i've ever seen, well thought out
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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It did? Please define "playing well."

That was one of the worst offensive performances I've seen in the playoffs from ANY team, EVER. Honest question: Are we the first team to not covert a single 3rd down in a playoff game? Has that ever happened before?

Marvin Lewis is the head coach, so I kinda hold him responsible for all parts of the gameplan and overall play. The offensive gameplan and play was beyond terrible, so he's partly responsible.

What I want from the guy is a playoff win. I want a team that shows up in big games more often than they do not. I have yet to get either. It's pretty simple.

If he gets no blame then how the heck are all these other head coaches getting axed left and right? Didn't Shottenheimer get fired after 14 wins one year? Lovie Smith is a defensive coach like Marvin and he just got canned for the failures of his offense. Their D was better than ours. And that guy won 10 games this year too, has been to a Superbowl, two NFC championships, and had over a .600 winning %.

What exactly is Marvin accountable for? Seriously.
I was more alluding to the fact that bad offensive line play makes the entire offense look like crap, and makes our QB look worse than he is. You can't blame a HC because the o line isn't doing it's job...

I am mad at PA for this idiocy that is center rotation
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Most of what you are saying is true and a lot of blame can be placed on those people you mentioned. However, to say Dalton isn't to blame and that he had one bad throw during the game to put blame on is ludicrous. The guy has not played well for over a month and he deserves as much blame if not more than anyone else for this loss. The defense once again played lights out and was on the field for 2/3 of the game. He couldn't put together a single touchdown drive yet again and missed on several throws and locked in on one receiver way to many times yet again. I know he will be the QB again next year and all I can do is hope he studies his butt off and learns from all the mistakes he has made lately. With that said I don't have to much confidence in him ever being a guy that leads this team to even a conference championship, yet alone a Super Bowl.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

The most exposed was Maulauga, he was 5 yards away from his coverage every play.

Sad.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by crazyjdawg View Post
There was one play that I think sums up our offense, and the reason I think Dalton needs to seriously improve in the off season.

I believe it was 2:13 left in the first half (can't be sure. I'll go back and watch the game tomorrow.)

Dalton drops back. He has no pressure on him yet. All four rushers are blocked. No major pressure.

It's 2nd and 8. Marvin Jones is tied up with Kareem Jackson. Within 2 seconds, Dalton throws it to his side. Jackson is still hanging on Marvin Jones. No way was Jones ever open, nor was he ever going to be open.

In addition: AJ Green had just broken over the middle on the other side of the field. The CB had turned his back and was out of position and there were no Linebackers immediately in his area. If he throws it to Green, he'd be wide open.

Three major problems with this play:
1. Andy Dalton is very skittish. And by skittish, I mean he's jittery in the pocket. He wants the ball to come out of his hands before the play even develops. This would make sense if he was about to be sacked, but he wasn't. It was a normal pass rush that was picked up and he had at least 2 more seconds to throw. If he waits a millisecond more, he'd have a 15 yard + reception to AJ Green. Instead he has a pointless incompletion to the secondary receiver.

2. Why is Dalton not going through his progressions? He looks at Jones. And see's he's covered. And throws it to him anyway. I understand that Jones was the first read on that play, but he shouldn't be the last. I've noticed this about Dalton. If he has a receiver in mind, he'll throw to that receiver regardless of the coverage. Usually that receiver is AJ Green, and that's fine because he often catches covered passes anyway, but not this time. It seemed like he did that with a lot of the Gresham passes too. Sure, Gresham should have caught 3 of those 5 passes that he dropped. But all 5 times, a guy was on his hip. There's gotta be more open people than that.

3. Why did the refs not call PI when Jackson is still hanging on Jones past 5 yards? I don't get it. They were dead set on the Bengals losing.
Yea it's like he's regressed in this sense. I think all the sacks he's taken recently has gotten in his head big time.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:06 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

I definitely lay some blame on Dalton. Of the three deep balls he threw to Green, the first was severely under thrown, the third time, severely over thrown. Green was open on each attempt. When he was on target, ie the second throw, Green made the play. Just one of quite a few mistakes and poor play by the QB today.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Gresham can't catch.

Rey is slow.

Marvin is in a trance with his blank, emotionless stare.

"on average"...Dalton has no time to throw.

No run game.

That about sums up the loss.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:14 AM
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I definitely lay some blame on Dalton. Of the three deep balls he threw to Green, the first was severely under thrown, the third time, severely over thrown. Green was open on each attempt. When he was on target, ie the second throw, Green made the play. Just one of quite a few mistakes and poor play by the QB today.
They lost as a team.

Lots of finger pointing and for nothing. I see you mention this throw and that throw. What about the throw that was spot on and the receiver just did not locate the ball allowing an INT? Bottomline, they lost as a team and need to improve as a team.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
They lost as a team.

Lots of finger pointing and for nothing. I see you mention this throw and that throw. What about the throw that was spot on and the receiver just did not locate the ball allowing an INT? Bottomline, they lost as a team and need to improve as a team.
No, Andy Dalton single handedly lost this game. He's not good enough. He's not going to be good enough.

This defense has played lights out the last 2 months. Dalton has played like Akili Smith. He's terrible. We deserve better. We should demand better.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:42 AM
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bengals Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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No, Andy Dalton single handedly lost this game. He's not good enough. He's not going to be good enough.

This defense has played lights out the last 2 months. Dalton has played like Akili Smith. He's terrible. We deserve better. We should demand better.
To say Andy single handedly lost this game shows a gross lack of knowledge of the game.

End of story.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
To say Andy single handedly lost this game shows a gross lack of knowledge of the game.

End of story.
Andy Dalton missed a wide open AJ Green twice for TD's, Andy Dalton is the sole reason the Bengals lost to the Texans. A competent QB would have completed those passes and the Bengals would have won the game. Can't be argued in any way. Simply can't.

Those are the facts and they are indisputable.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
They lost as a team.

Lots of finger pointing and for nothing. I see you mention this throw and that throw. What about the throw that was spot on and the receiver just did not locate the ball allowing an INT? Bottomline, they lost as a team and need to improve as a team.
You have to try and point fingers in order to decide who needs to be upgraded in the draft. Now is exactly the time to at least try and pinpoint the problem spots.

I'm not sure where to start on offense. We've got Sanu coming back. In the running game, it's always hard to sort RB issues from blocking ineptitude. Any casual observer of that game would observe that our D is significantly stronger than our offense. So what do you draft in Round 1, early Round 2, and late Round 2?

I guess I'll head over to the draft thread now, rather than beating this dead, decaying, putrid play-off loss horse anymore.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:11 AM
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bengals Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by kramer1 View Post
Andy Dalton missed a wide open AJ Green twice for TD's, Andy Dalton is the sole reason the Bengals lost to the Texans. A competent QB would have completed those passes and the Bengals would have won the game. Can't be argued in any way. Simply can't.

Those are the facts and they are indisputable.
No they are not indisputable. I can say I am a millionaire but just because I say it does not make it so.

Andy missed some throws. There is not a game played any given week where a top QB does not miss a throw or two. Hence why no one has a 100% completion rate. Were the misses the only factor in this loss? Nope sure was not and anyone looking at it rationally knows that.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:14 AM
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bengals Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by BengalUSCfan View Post
You have to try and point fingers in order to decide who needs to be upgraded in the draft. Now is exactly the time to at least try and pinpoint the problem spots.

I'm not sure where to start on offense. We've got Sanu coming back. In the running game, it's always hard to sort RB issues from blocking ineptitude. Any casual observer of that game would observe that our D is significantly stronger than our offense. So what do you draft in Round 1, early Round 2, and late Round 2?

I guess I'll head over to the draft thread now, rather than beating this dead, decaying, putrid play-off loss horse anymore.
I believe finger pointing and evaluating upgrades are separate issues. There is an ugliness that separates the two. In evaluation there is no basis for downgrading a player on a personal level.

Does Rey need upgraded? I certainly believe so. Was he the sole reason we lost the game? He did not help win it but he was not the only reason we lost.
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