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  #1  
Old 01-06-2013, 01:15 AM
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Natikid873 Natikid873 is offline
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Default All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

LB - This isn't even questionable anymore. We NEED to replace Rey. A guy like Ogletree
could do the trick in the 1st. Or move Burfict inside and draft a SAM in the later rounds.

S - I think it's safe to say that Reggie Nelson can't play both safety positions. Crocker
was a nice short term solution, but him nor Clements will most likely be playing with us
next year. Miles nor Mays can be our starter. We can find a day 1 starter within our 1st 4
picks.

RB - Not a starter, we already have one of those. Someone who can split not only carries
with BemJarvus, but can also split defenses with his quickness too. Someone who can
make people miss in the open field. Rounds 2-3 would be ideal.

I don't think WR, C, nor TE is that big of a need because...

When we had Sanu as our #2, our passing game was almost 2nd to none. He has
the perfect skill set to be a #2 in our offense and complements A.J. well. Add him with
Hawkins and move Marvin back to his more natural #4 spot and we have WR depth.

I don't understand why we didn't start Robinson over Cook. It's clear that Cook gets
overmatched against every DT he faces. When Robinson's in, we have consistent
interior blocking. Wharton well be healthy to compete with Boling at LG, and we have a
pro bowl snub at RG.

Listen, I'm as disappointed in Gresham's drops as much as the next guy, but didn't
this guy make the pro bowl last year and now everyone is giving up on him? I say
give him another year to redeem himself.

Mock A:

1. Alec Ogletree - MLB (Trade back 4 spots and get a 3rd in return)
2a. Giovanni Bernard - RB
2b. Alex Okafor - DE
3a. Gerald Hodges - OLB
3b. Shawn Williams - SS

Mock B:

1. Alec Ogletree - MLB (same trade)
2a. Giovanni Bernard - RB
2b. Kasheem Greene - OLB
3a. Da'Rick Rogers - WR
3b. T.J. McDonald - SS

Bottom line is, once Jay Gruden buys a house in Philly and we get Sanu back, this
offense can start to roll again hopefully with Bernard in the backfield as well.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

I like your Mocks. They pretty much line up with the way I see it, and I noticed your sig with Rds 4 and 5 as Nixon and Sanders Comming--couldn't have seen it better myself. I think you're dead on.

Personally, I wouldn't grab a guy like Roger because I'd like to think we've moved on. I remember reading last week that Marvin said he had to beg and plead to take a chance on Burfict, and even more to give the guy a 1k signing bonus. That shows a reluctance to take a chance on a guy...I'm not sure someone's gonna stick their neck out for an outright ******* like Rogers, especially so high in the draft.

I find it hard to believe Okafor drops to late 2nd, but I'd be ecstatic to get him there. Your second option had us grabbing Ogletree then Greene; I don't care if they're back to back...those two positions are our highest needs. Grab any RB or two 2b on back and we're set.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natikid873 View Post
LB - This isn't even questionable anymore. We NEED to replace Rey. A guy like Ogletree
could do the trick in the 1st. Or move Burfict inside and draft a SAM in the later rounds.

S - I think it's safe to say that Reggie Nelson can't play both safety positions. Crocker
was a nice short term solution, but him nor Clements will most likely be playing with us
next year. Miles nor Mays can be our starter. We can find a day 1 starter within our 1st 4
picks.

RB - Not a starter, we already have one of those. Someone who can split not only carries
with BemJarvus, but can also split defenses with his quickness too. Someone who can
make people miss in the open field. Rounds 2-3 would be ideal.

I don't think WR, C, nor TE is that big of a need because...

When we had Sanu as our #2, our passing game was almost 2nd to none. He has
the perfect skill set to be a #2 in our offense and complements A.J. well. Add him with
Hawkins and move Marvin back to his more natural #4 spot and we have WR depth.

I don't understand why we didn't start Robinson over Cook. It's clear that Cook gets
overmatched against every DT he faces. When Robinson's in, we have consistent
interior blocking. Wharton well be healthy to compete with Boling at LG, and we have a
pro bowl snub at RG.

Listen, I'm as disappointed in Gresham's drops as much as the next guy, but didn't
this guy make the pro bowl last year and now everyone is giving up on him? I say
give him another year to redeem himself.

Mock A:

1. Alec Ogletree - MLB (Trade back 4 spots and get a 3rd in return)
2a. Giovanni Bernard - RB
2b. Alex Okafor - DE
3a. Gerald Hodges - OLB
3b. Shawn Williams - SS

Mock B:

1. Alec Ogletree - MLB (same trade)
2a. Giovanni Bernard - RB
2b. Kasheem Greene - OLB
3a. Da'Rick Rogers - WR
3b. T.J. McDonald - SS

Bottom line is, once Jay Gruden buys a house in Philly and we get Sanu back, this
offense can start to roll again hopefully with Bernard in the backfield as well.
I was thinking Ogletree as well. And you know how the Bengals love the Georgia Bulldogs.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:02 AM
Bull Durham Bull Durham is offline
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

I think Sanu and Jones are fine as third and fourth WRs. Not sure either one is a starter for a good offense though. If they were starting for any other team, that team would be trying to upgrade
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

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I think Sanu and Jones are fine as third and fourth WRs. Not sure either one is a starter for a good offense though. If they were starting for any other team, that team would be trying to upgrade
I agree, let's get AJ another elite WR. The league continues to favor QBs and WRs so let's give Dalton more weapons. I really like what Atlanta and Green Bay has. Even Brady has 3 elite targets in Gronk, Hernandez and Welker.
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:40 AM
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D's Nuts and Bolts D's Nuts and Bolts is offline
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

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Originally Posted by Carl Pickens View Post
I agree, let's get AJ another elite WR. The league continues to favor QBs and WRs so let's give Dalton more weapons. I really like what Atlanta and Green Bay has. Even Brady has 3 elite targets in Gronk, Hernandez and Welker.
Ryan, Rogers, Brady or the WR's? We have seen WR's leave teams like NO, NE and not have much sucess.

You have to have a system that uses your "weapons" to their strengths.

You also have guys like Peerman, Charles, Whalen who sat the bench last night. Whalen made that great catch in the PIT game his reward, play ST like a good soldier. Charles caught almost all of his targets, his reward watch the starter get targeted 7 times and catch 2. Peerman become a viable productive runner, reward play ST's.

As far as the Mocks, I'm ok with most of the picks. I'm not a Greene fan, he is a converted S and plays like it.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
I think Sanu and Jones are fine as third and fourth WRs. Not sure either one is a starter for a good offense though. If they were starting for any other team, that team would be trying to upgrade
So if Sanu is fine at 3rd, where does that put Hawk? Definitely not outside across
from A.J.? I'm just saying if Rogers is their, might as well pull the trigger. Could be
a nice deep threat.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

LB is our biggest need right now. Why dont we just go ahead and draft two guys early and fix our issue now?

1st - Ogletree
2A - Eddie Lacy
2B - Chase Thomas
3 - Bacarri Rambo
4 - Best WR available
5 - OL
6 - Dri Archer / Jonathan Franklin
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:04 PM
Bull Durham Bull Durham is offline
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

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LB is our biggest need right now. Why dont we just go ahead and draft two guys early and fix our issue now?

1st - Ogletree
2A - Eddie Lacy
2B - Chase Thomas
3 - Bacarri Rambo
4 - Best WR available
5 - OL
6 - Dri Archer / Jonathan Franklin
I think offensive line and the passing game is our biggest issue, and that does nothing to address either. I don't care if we upgrade our LBs. We won't win many games with an offense that scores six points. One TD in three games.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

linebacker and center were the two biggest problems yesterday.

Maybe Robinson has it, but if not, they need to find a new center in draft or in free agency.

Dalton would have had a fabulous game if he had had the protection given the Texas qb.

our pass protection has been horrible, particularly when Cook returned.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

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Originally Posted by D's Nuts and Bolts View Post
Ryan, Rogers, Brady or the WR's? We have seen WR's leave teams like NO, NE and not have much sucess.

You have to have a system that uses your "weapons" to their strengths.

You also have guys like Peerman, Charles, Whalen who sat the bench last night. Whalen made that great catch in the PIT game his reward, play ST like a good soldier. Charles caught almost all of his targets, his reward watch the starter get targeted 7 times and catch 2. Peerman become a viable productive runner, reward play ST's.

As far as the Mocks, I'm ok with most of the picks. I'm not a Greene fan, he is a converted S and plays like it.
Matt Ryan has two very good WR's in Roddy White and Julio Jones. The Packers are absolutely stacked at WR with Jennings, Driver, Nelson, etc., etc., plus they have a top 5 QB. The only real guy there that really proves your argument is Brady, but he's a first ballot HoF'er. Dalton is still developing and we don't know how good he will be, yet. So, it's either do nothing to help him and hope he develops into an All Pro and come up short in the meantime, or do what we can to give him weapons so we can have success while he develops.

Can we just stop with the Ryan Whalen hype? Please? The guy had 7 catches on 12 targets[58.3%] for 53 yards, a pathetic 7.6 yards/catch, 4.42 yards/attempt, a long of 10 yards, and no TD's. Charles, a TE, had almost twice as many receiving yards on fewer targets. The only guy on this team that was thrown to this year with fewer receiving yards is Pressley. The only guys with a worse YPC are BJGE, Leonard, and Pressley. Whalen is a gameday inactive for most teams in the league, if he can even make their rosters.

At the end of the day, our offense wound up 22nd in the league, and our D wound up 6th. We have a lot of young players on offense, but we need to supplement that with some more talent. Personally, though, I think that we need to grab a WR through FA and get a home run threat RB via the draft. RT may also need to be addressed if Andre leaves.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:25 PM
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StLucieBengal StLucieBengal is offline
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie Bengal View Post
I was thinking Ogletree as well. And you know how the Bengals love the Georgia Bulldogs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natikid873 View Post
LB - This isn't even questionable anymore. We NEED to replace Rey. A guy like Ogletree
could do the trick in the 1st. Or move Burfict inside and draft a SAM in the later rounds.

S - I think it's safe to say that Reggie Nelson can't play both safety positions. Crocker
was a nice short term solution, but him nor Clements will most likely be playing with us
next year. Miles nor Mays can be our starter. We can find a day 1 starter within our 1st 4
picks.

RB - Not a starter, we already have one of those. Someone who can split not only carries
with BemJarvus, but can also split defenses with his quickness too. Someone who can
make people miss in the open field. Rounds 2-3 would be ideal.

I don't think WR, C, nor TE is that big of a need because...

When we had Sanu as our #2, our passing game was almost 2nd to none. He has
the perfect skill set to be a #2 in our offense and complements A.J. well. Add him with
Hawkins and move Marvin back to his more natural #4 spot and we have WR depth.

I don't understand why we didn't start Robinson over Cook. It's clear that Cook gets
overmatched against every DT he faces. When Robinson's in, we have consistent
interior blocking. Wharton well be healthy to compete with Boling at LG, and we have a
pro bowl snub at RG.

Listen, I'm as disappointed in Gresham's drops as much as the next guy, but didn't
this guy make the pro bowl last year and now everyone is giving up on him? I say
give him another year to redeem himself.

Mock A:

1. Alec Ogletree - MLB (Trade back 4 spots and get a 3rd in return)
2a. Giovanni Bernard - RB
2b. Alex Okafor - DE
3a. Gerald Hodges - OLB
3b. Shawn Williams - SS

Mock B:

1. Alec Ogletree - MLB (same trade)
2a. Giovanni Bernard - RB
2b. Kasheem Greene - OLB
3a. Da'Rick Rogers - WR
3b. T.J. McDonald - SS

Bottom line is, once Jay Gruden buys a house in Philly and we get Sanu back, this
offense can start to roll again hopefully with Bernard in the backfield as well.
Very nice analysis ... On the North Carolina back? What are his weakness
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  #13  
Old 01-06-2013, 02:33 PM
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D's Nuts and Bolts D's Nuts and Bolts is offline
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

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Originally Posted by StLucieBengal View Post
Very nice analysis ... On the North Carolina back? What are his weakness
Durability is the big one, there is a thread about him with some links.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:28 PM
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D's Nuts and Bolts D's Nuts and Bolts is offline
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Matt Ryan has two very good WR's in Roddy White and Julio Jones. The Packers are absolutely stacked at WR with Jennings, Driver, Nelson, etc., etc., plus they have a top 5 QB. The only real guy there that really proves your argument is Brady, but he's a first ballot HoF'er. Dalton is still developing and we don't know how good he will be, yet. So, it's either do nothing to help him and hope he develops into an All Pro and come up short in the meantime, or do what we can to give him weapons so we can have success while he develops.

Can we just stop with the Ryan Whalen hype? Please? The guy had 7 catches on 12 targets[58.3%] for 53 yards, a pathetic 7.6 yards/catch, 4.42 yards/attempt, a long of 10 yards, and no TD's. Charles, a TE, had almost twice as many receiving yards on fewer targets. The only guy on this team that was thrown to this year with fewer receiving yards is Pressley. The only guys with a worse YPC are BJGE, Leonard, and Pressley. Whalen is a gameday inactive for most teams in the league, if he can even make their rosters.

At the end of the day, our offense wound up 22nd in the league, and our D wound up 6th. We have a lot of young players on offense, but we need to supplement that with some more talent. Personally, though, I think that we need to grab a WR through FA and get a home run threat RB via the draft. RT may also need to be addressed if Andre leaves.
Matt Ryan has one of those WR because they traded big for him. I don't see a WR worth that in this draft. K.Allen, but is a rookie WR the answer next year and how much do you trade to get up in the draft to get him?

In GB, Driver had 77 yards this year, Jennings like 375, Nelson 650. Cobb had a good year 900+, but his rookie year 375. Jones had a good year. Are these WR's that good or does having an MVP QB with the best passer rating and no running game have something to do with it. The play caller also knows how to use these guys.

Go back and look at the teams that are ahead of us in total offense and tell me how many "studs" at WR they got.

Oh, the Andy to AJ connection 59% completion, I brought up Whalen because of the tough catch he made in PIT and then was never seen again. I like Hawkins but they are not using him right and I'm tired of seeing him not come back to the ball.

A lot needs to happen on the offense and I agree more talent is needed. However what are we going to be, an air it out team, running team, WCO. Pick something and be good at it. I would suggest they do everything they can to build a dominant running game, with RB/WR screens, playaction, rollouts/bootlegs, wildcat, whatever. You can't put the offense on Andy's shoulders he has physical limitations and it is evident. That doesn't mean he can't win. We need to be the SF of the AFC, because they have a stable of talented WR's.

You know we had two/three great WR's (Chad, TJ, Chris) for a few years and a PB QB. Let's try building from the inside out, get a real Center and a TE who can block.

As far as FA WR's no thanks, hasn't worked out so good in the past. Here are the top ten. This is before there own teams have a chance to resign them and before anyone says Mike Wallace, he is going to want 10 MIL/yr., Bowe might be and option.
Dwayne Bowe
Mike Wallace
Greg Jennings
Wes Welker
Danny Amendola
Brian Hartline
Julian Edelman
Donnie Avery
Terrell Owens
Jerome Simpson

Last edited by D's Nuts and Bolts; 01-06-2013 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:53 AM
Whatever Whatever is offline
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

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Matt Ryan has one of those WR because they traded big for him. I don't see a WR worth that in this draft. K.Allen, but is a rookie WR the answer next year and how much do you trade to get up in the draft to get him?

In GB, Driver had 77 yards this year, Jennings like 375, Nelson 650. Cobb had a good year 900+, but his rookie year 375. Jones had a good year. Are these WR's that good or does having an MVP QB with the best passer rating and no running game have something to do with it. The play caller also knows how to use these guys.

Go back and look at the teams that are ahead of us in total offense and tell me how many "studs" at WR they got.

Oh, the Andy to AJ connection 59% completion, I brought up Whalen because of the tough catch he made in PIT and then was never seen again. I like Hawkins but they are not using him right and I'm tired of seeing him not come back to the ball.

A lot needs to happen on the offense and I agree more talent is needed. However what are we going to be, an air it out team, running team, WCO. Pick something and be good at it. I would suggest they do everything they can to build a dominant running game, with RB/WR screens, playaction, rollouts/bootlegs, wildcat, whatever. You can't put the offense on Andy's shoulders he has physical limitations and it is evident. That doesn't mean he can't win. We need to be the SF of the AFC, because they have a stable of talented WR's.

You know we had two/three great WR's (Chad, TJ, Chris) for a few years and a PB QB. Let's try building from the inside out, get a real Center and a TE who can block.

As far as FA WR's no thanks, hasn't worked out so good in the past. Here are the top ten. This is before there own teams have a chance to resign them and before anyone says Mike Wallace, he is going to want 10 MIL/yr., Bowe might be and option.
Dwayne Bowe
Mike Wallace
Greg Jennings
Wes Welker
Danny Amendola
Brian Hartline
Julian Edelman
Donnie Avery
Terrell Owens
Jerome Simpson
Green Bay's WR ARE that good. They were good enough to fool Seattle into thinking Matt Flynn was a franchise QB. The reason their yardage is down this year is because so many of them have been injured. Driver and Jennings were studs with a washed up Brett Favre.

As for teams ahead of us and stud WR's, the Patriots have Welker. New Orleans has Colston and Lance Moore. Detroit has Megatron. Denver has Thomas and Decker. Washington has nobody. Dallas arguably has Dez Bryant and Miles Austin, when they feel like playing. Houston has Andre Johnson. Atlanta has White and Jones. Tampa has nobody. Indianapolis has Reggie Wayne.

The completion % to AJ drops because we throw him a lot of deep balls, which are low percentage passes. Whalen can't stretch the field deep, so we don't throw many of those types of balls to him. One good catch in two years doesn't neccessitate to me that the guy needs more touches. That's the life of a #5 WR in the NFL. You don't get many opportunities, so you need to do your job when your number is called.

Honestly, I think Hawkins has a place in the offense, but I think we would be better off using him as a package player instead of as a regular #3 WR. Design 3-5 plays a game to get him some touches and see what he can do with it, but his height is killing him in our regular offense, because we have a shorter QB trying to throw it over a massive OL and hit an extremely short WR.

I think we need an every down RB that can break big plays, a veteran #2 WR that can move the chains when teams decide to double team AJ all game long, and probably need to upgrade at C. Then, we will have an offense that can throw from behind when it has to, but can control the clock and give the D plenty of time to rest. BJGE is serviceable, but he can't make anything happen on his own. The only times he makes big runs is when the OL creates a huge hole and the S's are worried about AJ.

I actually like Greg Jennings out of the FA WR crop this year. He's had a down year statistically because he's missed 8 games, and he's 29 years old, but he's been very productive through the years in a WCO. Plus, I think a veteran like him will help to develop the young guys we have, now. I think he would be a solid #2 that can make things happen when teams make a concerted effort to take away AJ. There are only 3 games this year where we got 60+ yards out of our #2 WR, and two of those were by Binns.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:15 PM
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Green Bay's WR ARE that good. They were good enough to fool Seattle into thinking Matt Flynn was a franchise QB. The reason their yardage is down this year is because so many of them have been injured. Driver and Jennings were studs with a washed up Brett Favre.

As for teams ahead of us and stud WR's, the Patriots have Welker. New Orleans has Colston and Lance Moore. Detroit has Megatron. Denver has Thomas and Decker. Washington has nobody. Dallas arguably has Dez Bryant and Miles Austin, when they feel like playing. Houston has Andre Johnson. Atlanta has White and Jones. Tampa has nobody. Indianapolis has Reggie Wayne.

The completion % to AJ drops because we throw him a lot of deep balls, which are low percentage passes. Whalen can't stretch the field deep, so we don't throw many of those types of balls to him. One good catch in two years doesn't neccessitate to me that the guy needs more touches. That's the life of a #5 WR in the NFL. You don't get many opportunities, so you need to do your job when your number is called.

Honestly, I think Hawkins has a place in the offense, but I think we would be better off using him as a package player instead of as a regular #3 WR. Design 3-5 plays a game to get him some touches and see what he can do with it, but his height is killing him in our regular offense, because we have a shorter QB trying to throw it over a massive OL and hit an extremely short WR.

I think we need an every down RB that can break big plays, a veteran #2 WR that can move the chains when teams decide to double team AJ all game long, and probably need to upgrade at C. Then, we will have an offense that can throw from behind when it has to, but can control the clock and give the D plenty of time to rest. BJGE is serviceable, but he can't make anything happen on his own. The only times he makes big runs is when the OL creates a huge hole and the S's are worried about AJ.

I actually like Greg Jennings out of the FA WR crop this year. He's had a down year statistically because he's missed 8 games, and he's 29 years old, but he's been very productive through the years in a WCO. Plus, I think a veteran like him will help to develop the young guys we have, now. I think he would be a solid #2 that can make things happen when teams make a concerted effort to take away AJ. There are only 3 games this year where we got 60+ yards out of our #2 WR, and two of those were by Binns.
We passed on a very good young WR in Hilton for the Colts, he's gonna be a STUD too.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:55 PM
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We passed on a very good young WR in Hilton for the Colts, he's gonna be a STUD too.
Couldn't agree more
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

Saw a draft with Tavon Austin WR/RB out of WV,,,Didn't know who this kid was but watch his highlights. After I did, I saw a kid who would bring instant explosiveness to the Bengals offense..
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: All around needs and when to draft them. Plus 2 mocks

I don't know that trading back will secure Ogletree. If he rises he could easily go to Chicago a few picks before us assuming Te'o is gone and if he is there at 21, he seems like a very realistic candidate for the Ravens who won't be picking too far behind us after the Broncos knock them out this weekend.
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