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  #76  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
Then you bench him, put Skuta in there, or Burfict...anything other than just letting the freakin' bleeding continue.
Even yesterday it was obvious that the Bengals' defense got immediately better when Dan Skuta took over for Rey Maualuga while he was sidelined with an injury. I was hoping Mike Zimmer would have played Dan for the rest of the game but Rey came back after two series, I think. If all else fails, move Domata Peko a little off center for a one technique nose tackle and place Geno Atkins and Wallace Gilberry at three technique ends and bring in Vincent Rey with Dan Skuta. I'm no fan of the 3-4 but when the middle linebacker in a 4-3 starts to drag the team down, you do what you have to do to plug the leaks!
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  #77  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
Then you bench him, put Skuta in there, or Burfict...anything other than just letting the freakin' bleeding continue.
We have 3 every down LB's on the roster, maybe you could move Burfict into the middle and give Lamur more reps. Putting Skuta or Rey in the game shouldn't be an option they are NFL every down LB's.
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  #78  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering View Post
Even yesterday it was obvious that the Bengals' defense got immediately better when Dan Skuta took over for Rey Maualuga while he was sidelined with an injury. I was hoping Mike Zimmer would have played Dan for the rest of the game but Rey came back after two series, I think. If all else fails, move Domata Peko a little off center for a one technique nose tackle and place Geno Atkins and Wallace Gilberry at three technique ends and bring in Vincent Rey with Dan Skuta. I'm no fan of the 3-4 but when the middle linebacker in a 4-3 starts to drag the team down, you do what you have to do to plug the leaks!
I watched Skuta get abused by the second team Ravens O in person. He's not very good. Has anyone else watched what happens when Rey and Skuta play? They play worse than the starters.
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  #79  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Coaches...

My problem with Hayes is that he seems overly concerned with blocking TEs or teach TEs to block. Why not work on route running a little bit more.
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  #80  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by Abspara View Post
So what you're saying is the whole team is the problem.?
He's not the MAIN problem offensively was my opinion. We lack depth at offensive talent. The defense carried us at the end of the year. You don't win games if the whole team is a problem now do you?
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  #81  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
Dalton is average, that's all I have to say. He's never going to be a Drew Brees, or a Tom Brady, but he'll probably be an above average quarterback through the majority of his career.

His pocket presence is downright pathetic, his throws on the run are typically off the mark, and he gets rattled pretty easily. I know I'll get some heat for this, but that's what I see on a week to week basis. These are all things he can improve on, and I think he will in time.


Just above average is actually a good assessment and most people should agree. I just think there are some pathetic things with the offense surrounding him going on right now that makes the QB look worse than he is. No one had a problem with Andy when he was lighting it up at the beginning of the season.
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  #82  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

I agree that Andy is a product of his line play, probably more-so than most QBs...that being said...

Cook being handed back his starting job was such a head-scratcher, with Robinson playing great, BJGE racking up multiple 100+ yard games...

Then keeping it, after the run game dissolves and the sacks start piling up (coincidence? give me a breaK) is un-f***ing-fathomable.

Rey is getting TORCHED all day, and we do nothing. absolutely nothing.

Why can't players get benched for terrible performances? Why can't our coaches make adjustments?

I hate playing chicken little, but it feels like we're playing in a different league than other teams at times.
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  #83  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:51 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
'Drew Brees 2nd year = 320 Completions on 526 attempts 60.8%
Dalton 2nd year = 329 completions on 528 attempts 62.3%

Drew Brees 2nd year = 3284 yard, 17 TDs, 16 INTs
Dalton 2nd year = 3669 yards 27 TDs 16 INTs

Drew Brees 2nd year = 76.9 rating
Dalton 2nd year = 87.4 rating

Drew Brees 2nd year = watching playoffs on tv (did the same in his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year)
Dalton's 2nd year = actually making the playoffs (same thing he did his first year)

Dalton is going to be fine. He is not perfect, but he is NOT the problem.
I'm glad someone here is willing to take a look at the statistics. 27 TDs, 16 INTs and an 87.4 passer rating is good for ANY QB, let alone one in his second year.

So Andy Dalton might not perform every time we need him to, but who does? Only the very best quarterbacks come through whenever they're needed, and they're normally more experienced than Dalton.

Compare Big Ben throwing an INT late in a must win game to Andy throwing a perfect ball to a wide open AJ. Not an easy throw at all, but thrown perfectly. Give him a few reliable options and Andy will be great.

He's a leader, he's passionate, and he's keen to improve. He'll get there, and I hope he;s with the Bengals when he does.

P.S. It isn't the line's fault. J J Watt has been breaking through lines all year. All we need line wise is a decent centre.
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  #84  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
Dalton is average, that's all I have to say. He's never going to be a Drew Brees, or a Tom Brady, but he'll probably be an above average quarterback through the majority of his career.

His pocket presence is downright pathetic, his throws on the run are typically off the mark, and he gets rattled pretty easily. I know I'll get some heat for this, but that's what I see on a week to week basis. These are all things he can improve on, and I think he will in time.

It is year 2, his only year with a full training camp. He is putting up Peyton Manning numbers in some areas. TO say that he cant be the next Drew Brees is idiotic, because most people at this time in Brees career, didnt think he would be the next Drew Brees.
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  #85  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by Donutttt View Post
I'm glad someone here is willing to take a look at the statistics. 27 TDs, 16 INTs and an 87.4 passer rating is good for ANY QB, let alone one in his second year.

So Andy Dalton might not perform every time we need him to, but who does? Only the very best quarterbacks come through whenever they're needed, and they're normally more experienced than Dalton.

Compare Big Ben throwing an INT late in a must win game to Andy throwing a perfect ball to a wide open AJ. Not an easy throw at all, but thrown perfectly. Give him a few reliable options and Andy will be great.

He's a leader, he's passionate, and he's keen to improve. He'll get there, and I hope he;s with the Bengals when he does.

P.S. It isn't the line's fault. J J Watt has been breaking through lines all year. All we need line wise is a decent centre.
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  #86  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by Spartan The Bengal View Post
So, unlike some, I'm not even close to being emotionally unstable. I can still reason, and I can still be reasonable. Yes, Dalton let us down on the last throw of the game, but I don't place the blame on his shoulders alone. So I'd just like to share some people I blame for the loss and some I don't

I blame:

Rey Maulaluga: The dude is flat out awful. The Texan's gameplan seemed to be abuse Rey and do for whomever he was covering and it was PAINFUL to watch. I am actually surprised that Zimmer didn't explode on him

Jay Gruden: You can't find a way to target the best playmaker on our team? It's funny, because the instant we started forcing the ball to AJ we actually got a pulse on offense... Imagine that OC. You get your best players the ball. And BJGE was on fire, but we couldn't sustain drives to actually feed him.

Jermaine Gresham: I love the guy, but you have to show up in big games! I don't blame his last "drop" as it was just a tremendous play by the Glover Quin but the first drop really got into his head and you could tell.

Entire O line: Everyone got beat at some point, and it made Dalton look far worse than he is... Not much needs to be said. Pass protection was awful minus a few plays, but the run game was doing very well.

Paul Alexander: lol

I DON'T blame:

Marvin Lewis: I don't know what you want from this guy. It seemed, for the most part, we were playing well. The defense was incredible, and if you take Rey out for a more talented player who knows how well we would have done. Our offense, when our line actually protected dalton, moved down the field. We RARELY got to move down the field because the o line was awful, but I blame PA for that.

Andy Dalton: For the first half Dalton was playing the pass game by himself. I remember one pass in particular on a 3rd and 11 where dalton spun out of a Watt sack and scrambled to his right. He threw a ROPE on the move to Andrew Hawkins and instead of running back to the ball, like any receiver would, he waited for the ball and it got knocked down. All year long Andy's receivers have let him down, and it makes people think he is much worse than he is. He got pressured all day, and when he finally had time he had to take coverage sacks. NO ONE would get open for him. Andy is only to blame for that last throw which was off by feet. Tough break.

Geno Atkins: No sacks, but the man was held ALL GAME LONG. It was starting to become a little ridiculous. He was still very disruptive in the run game, but I can't blame his poor rushing because there was some iffy play going on inside.

AJ Green: Some people were getting onto him for not making the catch where he got speared in the helmet by Kareem Jackson (and Andy as well) but I credit the defense for making a play instead of the offense letting it slip by. We all know JJoe has incredible, and sometimes deceptive, closing speed and is one hell of a player. I am a tad upset the spear wasn't called though. Inconsistent rules to protect the receivers

So there you have it... I don't blame Andy, he's not the issue. He's done in his first two seasons no quarterback in the history of our franchise has done, and you guys really want to can him? Please get a control of your emotions, and see he is going to be great for us. Drew Brees took a little while to develop too ya know. I'm over it, the game is done. I don't want marvin gone, I don't want Dalton gone, but I do expect progress to be made by this team. Sanu and Marvin Jones are gonna step up next year


Very good point on Baby Hawk not coming back to the ball. QB;s always get the blame and sure Dalton didn't play great but many others struggles too. Even the pick wasn;t on Dalton, it was a hot read Green missed. People think Dalton was laughing but he was upset because he made the right read and Green didn;t pick it up.
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  #87  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Offensive playcalling, Rey Mauluga.....yep, that about covers it

Why do you abandon a running game that has 3 carries for 43 yards in the first half? Where was John Connor in the second half? It looked like the Texans were in our huddle on most passing plays!

Rey, Rey, Rey, Rey.....just how many times can you be out of position and burned on the SAME crossing pattern in one game? Thanks for your service here, but it's time to go.
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  #88  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
'Drew Brees 2nd year = 320 Completions on 526 attempts 60.8%
Dalton 2nd year = 329 completions on 528 attempts 62.3%

Drew Brees 2nd year = 3284 yard, 17 TDs, 16 INTs
Dalton 2nd year = 3669 yards 27 TDs 16 INTs

Drew Brees 2nd year = 76.9 rating
Dalton 2nd year = 87.4 rating

Drew Brees 2nd year = watching playoffs on tv (did the same in his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year)
Dalton's 2nd year = actually making the playoffs (same thing he did his first year)

Dalton is going to be fine. He is not perfect, but he is NOT the problem.
You know, I keep seeing this "incredible" statistics, but I'm not seeing it on the field. Here's one for you:

Brees' best year: 468/657, 71.2% completion - 5,476yds, 46 TDs, 14 INTs.

Daltons best year: 329/528, 62.3% completion - 3,669yds, 27TDs, 16 INTs.

See how silly it is to compare stats? Everyone here is holding Dalton to this golden standard by comparing him to Peyton Manning, Elway, and Brees, but just because his stats compare somewhat, doesn't mean he's going to the HOF. I like Dalton, I think he's doing well so far, but I find these comparisons silly.
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  #89  
Old 01-07-2013, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
You know, I keep seeing this "incredible" statistics, but I'm not seeing it on the field. Here's one for you:

Brees' best year: 468/657, 71.2% completion - 5,476yds, 46 TDs, 14 INTs.

Daltons best year: 329/528, 62.3% completion - 3,669yds, 27TDs, 16 INTs.

See how silly it is to compare stats? Everyone here is holding Dalton to this golden standard by comparing him to Peyton Manning, Elway, and Brees, but just because his stats compare somewhat, doesn't mean he's going to the HOF. I like Dalton, I think he's doing well so far, but I find these comparisons silly.
LOL It's not silly to compare someone's first year to another players first year. It is silly to compare a veterans best year to a 2 year players best year...

It's unbelievable how stupid some of the people on this board are.

The original thread is exactly how i feel about this team. Even if we won this game, I wasn't expecting more than this playoff win. We are not as good as denver or new england this year, that's pretty easy to see.

I'm tired of people acting like we need to blow the team up. We definately need to change some things up and draft some more players but ALL OF THE MAIN PIECES ARE HERE. Can we please allow some development?
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  #90  
Old 01-07-2013, 06:19 PM
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bengals Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by kramer1 View Post
Andy Dalton missed a wide open AJ Green twice for TD's, Andy Dalton is the sole reason the Bengals lost to the Texans. A competent QB would have completed those passes and the Bengals would have won the game. Can't be argued in any way. Simply can't.

Those are the facts and they are indisputable.
You are simply wrong.
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  #91  
Old 01-07-2013, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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You are simply wrong.
Um. what?

Andy Dalton did in fact miss AJ Green who was wide open and those points would in fact have put the Bengals in the lead.
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  #92  
Old 01-07-2013, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Coaches...

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Originally Posted by Cincy's Best View Post
My problem with Hayes is that he seems overly concerned with blocking TEs or teach TEs to block. Why not work on route running a little bit more.
Every decent TE we have had has regressed under Hayes. He is getting into their heads, a la Chase Coffman, and causing them to play poor. Until Hayes is gone, we will never have a pass-catching TE.
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  #93  
Old 01-07-2013, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Um. what?

Andy Dalton did in fact miss AJ Green who was wide open and those points would in fact have put the Bengals in the lead.
That last pass was not thrown with enough arch in the pass to allow Green to adjust to it. It was mostly a line drive that was destined to miss. You'd think the QB coach would note that and remind Dalton to put some air and trust the receiver to make the play.
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  #94  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Best thread yet
You're joking right?
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  #95  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:00 PM
TremaineMackAttack TremaineMackAttack is offline
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Great observations, I tend to agree with most of your points.

I distinctly remember the Dalton pass to Hawkins that was broken up....for some reason Hawkins stopped his route and did not break towards the frozen rope Dalton delivered (after avoiding pressure, again) and it was broken up by a Texan DB breaking on the ball - zone coverage I believe.

Had Hawkins not completely stopped and actually went towards the ball it would've been a first down. I was screaming at the tv!

Dalton by no means played great, however, the entire offense was crap (aside from BJGE and AJ) and did not help Dalton whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan The Bengal View Post
So, unlike some, I'm not even close to being emotionally unstable. I can still reason, and I can still be reasonable. Yes, Dalton let us down on the last throw of the game, but I don't place the blame on his shoulders alone. So I'd just like to share some people I blame for the loss and some I don't

I blame:

Rey Maulaluga: The dude is flat out awful. The Texan's gameplan seemed to be abuse Rey and do for whomever he was covering and it was PAINFUL to watch. I am actually surprised that Zimmer didn't explode on him

Jay Gruden: You can't find a way to target the best playmaker on our team? It's funny, because the instant we started forcing the ball to AJ we actually got a pulse on offense... Imagine that OC. You get your best players the ball. And BJGE was on fire, but we couldn't sustain drives to actually feed him.

Jermaine Gresham: I love the guy, but you have to show up in big games! I don't blame his last "drop" as it was just a tremendous play by the Glover Quin but the first drop really got into his head and you could tell.

Entire O line: Everyone got beat at some point, and it made Dalton look far worse than he is... Not much needs to be said. Pass protection was awful minus a few plays, but the run game was doing very well.

Paul Alexander: lol

I DON'T blame:

Marvin Lewis: I don't know what you want from this guy. It seemed, for the most part, we were playing well. The defense was incredible, and if you take Rey out for a more talented player who knows how well we would have done. Our offense, when our line actually protected dalton, moved down the field. We RARELY got to move down the field because the o line was awful, but I blame PA for that.

Andy Dalton: For the first half Dalton was playing the pass game by himself. I remember one pass in particular on a 3rd and 11 where dalton spun out of a Watt sack and scrambled to his right. He threw a ROPE on the move to Andrew Hawkins and instead of running back to the ball, like any receiver would, he waited for the ball and it got knocked down. All year long Andy's receivers have let him down, and it makes people think he is much worse than he is. He got pressured all day, and when he finally had time he had to take coverage sacks. NO ONE would get open for him. Andy is only to blame for that last throw which was off by feet. Tough break.

Geno Atkins: No sacks, but the man was held ALL GAME LONG. It was starting to become a little ridiculous. He was still very disruptive in the run game, but I can't blame his poor rushing because there was some iffy play going on inside.

AJ Green: Some people were getting onto him for not making the catch where he got speared in the helmet by Kareem Jackson (and Andy as well) but I credit the defense for making a play instead of the offense letting it slip by. We all know JJoe has incredible, and sometimes deceptive, closing speed and is one hell of a player. I am a tad upset the spear wasn't called though. Inconsistent rules to protect the receivers

So there you have it... I don't blame Andy, he's not the issue. He's done in his first two seasons no quarterback in the history of our franchise has done, and you guys really want to can him? Please get a control of your emotions, and see he is going to be great for us. Drew Brees took a little while to develop too ya know. I'm over it, the game is done. I don't want marvin gone, I don't want Dalton gone, but I do expect progress to be made by this team. Sanu and Marvin Jones are gonna step up next year
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  #96  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:58 PM
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bengals Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by Donutttt View Post
I'm glad someone here is willing to take a look at the statistics. 27 TDs, 16 INTs and an 87.4 passer rating is good for ANY QB, let alone one in his second year.

So Andy Dalton might not perform every time we need him to, but who does? Only the very best quarterbacks come through whenever they're needed, and they're normally more experienced than Dalton.

Compare Big Ben throwing an INT late in a must win game to Andy throwing a perfect ball to a wide open AJ. Not an easy throw at all, but thrown perfectly. Give him a few reliable options and Andy will be great.

He's a leader, he's passionate, and he's keen to improve. He'll get there, and I hope he;s with the Bengals when he does.

P.S. It isn't the line's fault. J J Watt has been breaking through lines all year. All we need line wise is a decent centre.
Stats don't win play-off games, when he plays against stiff competition, check his stats.
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  #97  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

I blame Andy Dalton because of his inability to throw an accurate deep ball! He threw late twice (one to AJ and one to Marvin Jones), he overthrew AJ on the last drive, and the one people are giving him credit for making a good throw on, the over-the-shoulder catch by AJ was a bad throw as well. Maybe not bad, but definitely not great! AJ was behind J Jo and inside of him as well. There was NO safety in the middle of the field. If Dalton puts the ball on AJ's left, he can continue on the line of separation he has already created between himself and J Jo. But Dalton puts the ball over AJ's RIGHT shoulder, causing AJ to adjust in mid-stride (which slows him down, allowing J Jo to close the distance) and make a great over-the-shoulder catch, but not an "in-stride" catch and a touchdown! Any of these four passed should have resulted in a touchdown for the Bengals. Instead there was 1 completion, and it only led to a FG! Yeah, Rey played terrible! Gresh killed drives with his drops as well. Even Andrew Hawkins made a bad play when he didn't come to the ball and the defender knocked it away! But despite All of this, IF ANY ONE OF THESE FOUR THROWS IS MADE ACCURATELY, the Bengals probably win the game. If 2 of them are made accurately, they DEFINITELY win the game...
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  #98  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

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Originally Posted by bengalmaniac View Post
I blame Andy Dalton because of his inability to throw an accurate deep ball! He threw late twice (one to AJ and one to Marvin Jones), he overthrew AJ on the last drive, and the one people are giving him credit for making a good throw on, the over-the-shoulder catch by AJ was a bad throw as well. Maybe not bad, but definitely not great! AJ was behind J Jo and inside of him as well. There was NO safety in the middle of the field. If Dalton puts the ball on AJ's left, he can continue on the line of separation he has already created between himself and J Jo. But Dalton puts the ball over AJ's RIGHT shoulder, causing AJ to adjust in mid-stride (which slows him down, allowing J Jo to close the distance) and make a great over-the-shoulder catch, but not an "in-stride" catch and a touchdown! Any of these four passed should have resulted in a touchdown for the Bengals. Instead there was 1 completion, and it only led to a FG! Yeah, Rey played terrible! Gresh killed drives with his drops as well. Even Andrew Hawkins made a bad play when he didn't come to the ball and the defender knocked it away! But despite All of this, IF ANY ONE OF THESE FOUR THROWS IS MADE ACCURATELY, the Bengals probably win the game. If 2 of them are made accurately, they DEFINITELY win the game...
Here we go with anti-Dalton fakery again.

Green was NOT missed wide open three times or even twice. One time the ball was off - it happens with ALL QBs. How about the one he put right on AJs hands in the endzone? I guess it doesn't count because it doesn't reinforce your meme. Or the one that got picked - if AJ doesn't stop for no reason like he did it is a first down and more. Or Hawk's ball he stopped on - same comments. Or Gresham's four dropped balls.

That was a total offensive breakdown on Saturday. The gameplan was idiotic, the pass protection was laughable and the receivers had the butterfingers they have been suffering from the past few weeks. Andy had some issues but they were greatly magnified by the nonsense going on around him.
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  #99  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: Andy Dalton is not the problem...

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Originally Posted by THEBURG View Post
Stats don't win play-off games, when he plays against stiff competition, check his stats.
Neither do quarterbacks, on their own.

So many times on these boards you hear people saying that the team/a player is not as good when they play against good teams.



Good teams... are better? What a revelation.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:57 PM
bengalmaniac bengalmaniac is offline
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Default Re: Who I blame and who I don't

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelist View Post
Here we go with anti-Dalton fakery again.

Green was NOT missed wide open three times or even twice. One time the ball was off - it happens with ALL QBs. How about the one he put right on AJs hands in the endzone? I guess it doesn't count because it doesn't reinforce your meme. Or the one that got picked - if AJ doesn't stop for no reason like he did it is a first down and more. Or Hawk's ball he stopped on - same comments. Or Gresham's four dropped balls.

That was a total offensive breakdown on Saturday. The gameplan was idiotic, the pass protection was laughable and the receivers had the butterfingers they have been suffering from the past few weeks. Andy had some issues but they were greatly magnified by the nonsense going on around him.
Go back and watch the game! The ball Dalton put on AJ's hands in the endzone was thrown LATE! And he lobbed it to boot! He gave the corner AND safety time to make a play. AJ had to STOP and jump for a ball when he should've been catching it in stride at about the 5 yard line! And if you read my post, you would know that I did place blame on Gresham and Hawkins for their bad plays. But I also said that DESPITE their bad play, the Bengals would have probably won the game had Andy hit a couple of those throws. The one to Marvin Jones, he started to throw, decided not to, and then when he did decide to fling it didn't have his momentum behind him so the ball was short! If he had thrown it at the height of his drop-back, it would have been a TD! (assuming the receiver makes the catch). Go and look at it again! Andy missed those throws, plain and simple! And I don't believe I blamed Andy for the pick! If anything it was AJ's fault for not knowing (being ready for) the ball coming to him! But that was not a deep ball, which is what I was referring to in my post. I thought you read it. If you;re going to offer a rebuttal on someone's comment, at least read the comment thoroughly before doing so...
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