Cincinnati Bengals

Go Back   Cincinnati Bengals Message Boards - Forums > Cincinnati Bengals Football Discussion > Jungle Noise

Jungle Noise Bengals Football Discussion for BENGALS FANS ONLY. Visiting team fans please keep your postings in one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:06 PM
degolfisfun degolfisfun is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 368
Rep Points: 357
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

I'm not sure this is the right forum or not but let me exhaust some hot air.

I'm not sure what the problem is with the Offense. But unlike Marvin and the rest of the coaches and key players, I'm not in denial. C'mon this is absolutely stupid not to man up to a problem. A golden opportunity was lost to win a few playoff games IF the Offense would have only done something. How can you upgrade something until you understand what needs fixing. Marvin/Gruden and Co. are brighter than I am but obviously getting about 10-12 first downs/game is not going to win you any games or give you any opportunities "to knock down some doors".

My personal uninformed view is that our poor offensive performance over the last 3-4 games is primarily due to lack of development/maturity/learning on Dalton's part. Teams have started putting pressure in his face and he has not figured out how to deal with it. He either quick triggers it with a high hard off-the-mark throw, or chaotically scrambles and either runs for a few yards or throws an incompletion. I'd guess his passer rating out-of-the pocket is rather poor. And I agree with Gruden that alot of the sacks he takes are on him and not on our O Line. I actually think our O Line performed pretty well on the whole vs the Texans; 6 yards/carry for BJGE, very few penalties, and only 1-2 sacks against Watt & Co. If you had told me that before the game, I would have taken it and predicted an easy victory.

I just finished watching the Seattle game and I'm changing my mind on Wilson also being an Average to Below Average QB like Dalton.. I now think he is better than Dalton! The thing that impressed me about Seattle and Wilson is that they have minimal for WRs but wow look at the passes to RBs. I think the FB caught a couple 20 yarders down the field. When was the last time BJGE or Pressley caught a deep pass? Gruden, where is this in our Offense? Didn't BJGE catch like 50 passes in NE last year?

All that said, I think Marvin's challenge is to figure out IF Gruden is capable of coaching Dalton up to a higher level? I guess based on Saturday's results, I would say No and I would release Gruden. And I'd bring in a real OC and QB coach who could help Andy. I don't know who this is but Marvin should be able to figure it out. Andy Reid was good at it. Harbaugh is good at it. There are probably others - Norv Turner? Todd Haley? Childress?

I predict IF this is not done, then Dalton will regress further and another year with alot of Defensive talent will be wasted. And I would resign Andre Smith asap. C'mon let's not have another JJo or Justin Smith fight over money. He's good - probably top 5 or 10 RT in the league. Save your Draft picks for LBs, RB, and Safety and get a top shelf FA WR.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:09 PM
Thorobredbullies's Avatar
Thorobredbullies Thorobredbullies is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Virginia Beach VA
Posts: 1,573
Rep Points: 2106
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Who_dey_hooligan View Post
Cincinnati Bengals Quarterbacks whove had at least 2 years worth of start. These stats reflect their first 2 years as a Bengal, and more than 8 starts in a season. Yes, I understand o-lines and running backs do play a role. These stats reflect the regular season only.

Virgil Carter 56.8 average completion, 29 TDs, 16 INTs, 76.5 passer rating over 23 total starts
Played 3 years and then was replace by

Ken Anderson 55.6 average completion, 25 TDs, 19INTs, 77.6 passer rating over 27 starts
Played 15 more seasons (13 as a fulltime starter) before being replaced by.

Boomer Esiason 58.2 average completion, 51 TDs, 29 INTs, 90.6 passer rating over 31 starts
Played 6 more seasons as a starter and was replaced by

David Klingler 56.0 average completion, 12 TDs, 18 INTs, 66.1 passer rating over 21 starts
Lost his starting role in 1994 to.

Jeff Blake 54.3 average completion, 42 TDs, 26 INTs, 79.5 passer rating over 25 starts
Played 4 more seasons and was replaced by.

Akili Smith 48 average completion, 5 TD, 12 INTs, 54 passer rating over 15 starts
Didnt last long at all and pretty much disappeared after one full season for..

Jon Kitna 58.5 average completion, 41 TDs, 35 INTs, 78 passer rating over 27 starts
These stats are from Kitnas first 2 years as a starter which were from Seattle not Cincy. He played another 3 years and then he was replaced by

Carson Palmer- 64.5 average completion, 50 TDs, 30 INTs, 89.3 passer rating over 29 starts
He played a total of 7 years before he was replaced by.

Andy Dalton 60.0 average completion, 47 TDs, 29 INTs, 83.9 passer rating over 32 starts

So, what does it all mean? Well, it would appear that Carson probably had the best start for a Bengals QB that weve ever seen, but if you compare the next best; its Andy. Andys statistics are very similar to another great Bengals QB: Boomer Esiason. Andys downfall up to this point is that he has grown up exceptionally fast and has been successful enough to take us to the playoffs in his first two years. With success comes greater expectations, and therefore, Andy will never be great unless he ascends to the next level; a playoff win.

I admit, I was ****** off after yesterdays loss. I was extremely aggravated at our offense, and its inability to convert and make plays, but if history is any indicator; Andy should have a great year next year. So, I propose that we reserve our anger and judgement for at least another year. We see that if he remains healthy he could continue to put up numbers we've never seen before (In my opinion). I propose we direct our anger at our coaching staff (or lack thereof). I propose that we identify obvious problems like Reys inability to stop anything. I welcome anyone to interpret these stats anyway they would like to, but I think its pretty much self explanatory.

Why do I remember Jeff Blake being far worse than those numbers indicate?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:10 PM
CINCYPRODUCT CINCYPRODUCT is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Unfortunately, md
Posts: 1,286
Rep Points: 1400
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Bengal Mike View Post
Dude He is not going #1

I cannot wait till the draft so we dont have to see this garbage anymore
Teddy bear looks promising in a couple of years.
__________________
Originally Posted by Steeler Eater
If Hue Jackson gets the OC job, I will gladly go streaking on streets lined with thumbtacks as I am tazered by leprechauns and urinated on by unicorns.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:14 PM
Cincy's Best's Avatar
Cincy's Best Cincy's Best is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Demon's Run
Posts: 3,574
Rep Points: 4146
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer1 View Post
Why? He's not a child. He's being paid a handsome sum to perform well on the big stage for my amusement. He's not amusing to me at all. I think his act stinks, actually.

I deserve better...and I'm gonna say it.
Then root for the team that will give you "better". The Bengals don't owe you anything, neither does Dalton.

Like YOU said there is NO ONE out there right now. So why complain?

Dalton is a 2nd year player that has shown the ability to win games. Will he win all of them? No. Will he win in the Playoffs? Depends on how many chances he gets to play in the playoffs. Will he win a SB? Maybe.

If we do what you propose, we go into NEXT season without a QB or with one that is of a lessor talent, which means NO playoffs at all. So no chances to win a playoff game and even less on winning the SB.

Yet my stance and the Bengals stance is to stand behind Dalton in year 3. Get him more RELIABLE weapons, not a TE that drops passes that are on the money or WRs not AJ being inconsistent. This actually gives us a chance to not only return to the playoffs for the 3rd year in a row, but to get a playoff win and slim chance at a SB.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:19 PM
Cincy's Best's Avatar
Cincy's Best Cincy's Best is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Demon's Run
Posts: 3,574
Rep Points: 4146
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer1 View Post
Changed his demeanor? So he's incompetent and gutless. What great qualities to have in a franchise QB!
Or it could be the WRs and TEs that are incompetent. Yet go ahead blame the QB. Gresham had 2 chances to get a 1st down on the opening drive but looked timid and afraid of getting hit. When has anyone seen Gresham do anything in a meaningful game? Yet lets not blame him, NOPE the QB didn't throw the ball and hit him right in the hands.... oh wait...
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:55 PM
tmangoud tmangoud is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 805
Rep Points: 950
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

@OSUFan

Just because a guy wears a Bengals uniform doesn't mean he's above reproach.

Andy is not a very good athlete.
He's slow.
He's a statue behind the center compared to modernday QB's.
His arm strength is below average.

He knows it.
The coaches know it.
Its no secret.
However the guy is a winner---always has been.

Why OSU guy insults people,, all the while complaining about people insulting people (players) is beyond me.

Its football OSU.
Its fun to watch and talk about.

Don't take things so personal.
Relax--its part of being a fan.

We're not owners or coaches and neither are you.
We're not sports talk hosts,,, we're fans.
Part of being a fan is expressing ones opinion good or bad, about our team.
We're all involved in the team we love.

I no longer read what you write--unless its by accident.
You're no fun.
You say the same thing in every post.
It there an ignore feature?

I get it......it doesn't matter what happened in any game --the bengals are great. No player should every be judged, Don't talk about the bad things.Our owner alway does the right thing----Let only talk about how sweet Andy smells--Dude--thats very boring.

We don't need a message board----football is better if we don't talk or think about it
__________________
tman
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:45 AM
degolfisfun degolfisfun is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 368
Rep Points: 357
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincy's Best View Post
Then root for the team that will give you "better". The Bengals don't owe you anything, neither does Dalton.

Like YOU said there is NO ONE out there right now. So why complain?

Dalton is a 2nd year player that has shown the ability to win games. Will he win all of them? No. Will he win in the Playoffs? Depends on how many chances he gets to play in the playoffs. Will he win a SB? Maybe.

If we do what you propose, we go into NEXT season without a QB or with one that is of a lessor talent, which means NO playoffs at all. So no chances to win a playoff game and even less on winning the SB.

Yet my stance and the Bengals stance is to stand behind Dalton in year 3. Get him more RELIABLE weapons, not a TE that drops passes that are on the money or WRs not AJ being inconsistent. This actually gives us a chance to not only return to the playoffs for the 3rd year in a row, but to get a playoff win and slim chance at a SB.
I am fully OK with your approach of giving Dalton a Year 3. BUT ONLY or IF we feel we can address his current short-comings which only seemed to manifest theirselves in the last 3-4 games. Through the SD or Dallas game he was fine. The problem is dealing with pressure in his face. IMO opposing teams have found out that he does not deal well with pressure in his face. THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN A LEAKY OL which we do not have in my opinion. He quick triggers a high hard one to his #1 read or tries to bail out-of-the -pocket with even lesser results. He is not very good at standing in there and going to his #2 or #3 read.

If these are correctable via coaching, then we have an optimistic future. If not, then I'm ready to move on today. Whatever that means. Flacco? Romo? Smith? or other "Average" QBs in the league?

Last edited by degolfisfun; 01-07-2013 at 09:49 AM. Reason: additional point
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:48 AM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 33,721
Rep Points: 32168
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Who_dey_hooligan View Post
Cincinnati Bengals Quarterbacks whove had at least 2 years worth of start. These stats reflect their first 2 years as a Bengal, and more than 8 starts in a season. Yes, I understand o-lines and running backs do play a role. These stats reflect the regular season only.

Virgil Carter 56.8 average completion, 29 TDs, 16 INTs, 76.5 passer rating over 23 total starts
Played 3 years and then was replace by

Ken Anderson 55.6 average completion, 25 TDs, 19INTs, 77.6 passer rating over 27 starts
Played 15 more seasons (13 as a fulltime starter) before being replaced by.

Boomer Esiason 58.2 average completion, 51 TDs, 29 INTs, 90.6 passer rating over 31 starts
Played 6 more seasons as a starter and was replaced by

David Klingler 56.0 average completion, 12 TDs, 18 INTs, 66.1 passer rating over 21 starts
Lost his starting role in 1994 to.

Jeff Blake 54.3 average completion, 42 TDs, 26 INTs, 79.5 passer rating over 25 starts
Played 4 more seasons and was replaced by.

Akili Smith 48 average completion, 5 TD, 12 INTs, 54 passer rating over 15 starts
Didnt last long at all and pretty much disappeared after one full season for..

Jon Kitna 58.5 average completion, 41 TDs, 35 INTs, 78 passer rating over 27 starts
These stats are from Kitnas first 2 years as a starter which were from Seattle not Cincy. He played another 3 years and then he was replaced by

Carson Palmer- 64.5 average completion, 50 TDs, 30 INTs, 89.3 passer rating over 29 starts
He played a total of 7 years before he was replaced by.

Andy Dalton 60.0 average completion, 47 TDs, 29 INTs, 83.9 passer rating over 32 starts

So, what does it all mean? Well, it would appear that Carson probably had the best start for a Bengals QB that weve ever seen, but if you compare the next best; its Andy. Andys statistics are very similar to another great Bengals QB: Boomer Esiason. Andys downfall up to this point is that he has grown up exceptionally fast and has been successful enough to take us to the playoffs in his first two years. With success comes greater expectations, and therefore, Andy will never be great unless he ascends to the next level; a playoff win.

I admit, I was ****** off after yesterdays loss. I was extremely aggravated at our offense, and its inability to convert and make plays, but if history is any indicator; Andy should have a great year next year. So, I propose that we reserve our anger and judgement for at least another year. We see that if he remains healthy he could continue to put up numbers we've never seen before (In my opinion). I propose we direct our anger at our coaching staff (or lack thereof). I propose that we identify obvious problems like Reys inability to stop anything. I welcome anyone to interpret these stats anyway they would like to, but I think its pretty much self explanatory.
your stats are all wrong... You cant compare Palmers year 2 and 3 to daltons year 1 and 2...
__________________

FOOTBALL... The New Age Gladiator Games...
Tiger Squrriel Is Hungry
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:55 AM
ODRAB14 ODRAB14 is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,884
Rep Points: 2514
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Dalton is our starter for 2013 No doubt about it. What fans and this coaching staff need to realize is that this guy can succeed with complimentary parts. To go into Saturdays game with the mindset of chucking it around the yard is absolute stupidty. The game plan was terrible. Dalton's best games and most QB's best games came when we ran the ball effectively. Yes it is more of a passing league but you still run the ball to control the line of scrimmage. We did not run the ball well in December or Saturday. Dalton had three straight Passer ratings of 100 when BJGE was going good. On Saturday BJGE average 5.7 and didn't run the ball. Ok so we decide to chuck it around but yet we don't target our best player.

In 2013, the fans, coaches and media have to realize there are only so many Aaron Rogers and Brady's. We have Andy Dalton. He is an average QB who can be a good QB but will probably never be elite. He struggles with pressure and coming off reads. So how do you fix that. You have to have compliments around him. You have to beef up your Oline, you have to run the ball. Look at yesterdays games. ravens ran for like 150 yards, Seahwaks ran for 200, Texans ran for about 150. Plus all those teams have good checkdown running backs. The league gives you the answers on how to succeed but can this staff and QB figure it out.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:03 AM
TheCincinnatiKid TheCincinnatiKid is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,530
Rep Points: 2032
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

There is no QB controversy. There is a bit Dalton can do to up his game no question, but he is a good QB, with decent upside. He'll never be elite imo, but he can certainly be in that second tier.

Who would we seriously get to replace Andy? Weak QB class and there's not gunna be much out there that would be clear enough an upgrade to be worth bringing in.

I dont wanna pin too much on Sanu at all, but I do think the offence will flow a bit better if we can keep him healthy. We had nothing going over the middle when he went out. Its not about him being some incredible WR, his kind of player is just something that'll round off the offence nicely.

Statistically Andy had a decent year, and still clearly has a lot he can improve on. Am I the only one who thinks that's not too bad a spot? If he can work on the long ball and make it even just moderate, then he can have a damn good year next year.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:06 AM
bengalpride's Avatar
bengalpride bengalpride is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 106
Rep Points: 137
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Give Andy TJ, Chris Henry, and Chad Johnson in there prime and a running game with 1500 yards and we'll see different stats, not to mention an oline loaded
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:20 AM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 33,721
Rep Points: 32168
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCincinnatiKid View Post
There is no QB controversy. There is a bit Dalton can do to up his game no question, but he is a good QB, with decent upside. He'll never be elite imo, but he can certainly be in that second tier.

Who would we seriously get to replace Andy? Weak QB class and there's not gunna be much out there that would be clear enough an upgrade to be worth bringing in.

I dont wanna pin too much on Sanu at all, but I do think the offence will flow a bit better if we can keep him healthy. We had nothing going over the middle when he went out. Its not about him being some incredible WR, his kind of player is just something that'll round off the offence nicely.

Statistically Andy had a decent year, and still clearly has a lot he can improve on. Am I the only one who thinks that's not too bad a spot? If he can work on the long ball and make it even just moderate, then he can have a damn good year next year.
For a rookie/2nd year guy with an extremely young OL WR core and TE core hes done extremely well.. Our issues...

1. Not a steady running game. BJGE is okay but not Great, And we dont have (or at least dont use anyone to go with him)

2. Nothing Across from green.. This will change when Sanu returns but we need more Full time options less gaget players.

3. A TE that will Catch a ball.

4. No more cook.. (I stated before the playoff if we started Kyle Cook we would lose)
__________________

FOOTBALL... The New Age Gladiator Games...
Tiger Squrriel Is Hungry
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:29 AM
graphicguy's Avatar
graphicguy graphicguy is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Butler County
Posts: 3,364
Rep Points: 4439
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Nobody ever talks about our QB coach....Ken Zampese. Doesn't the job he's done need to be closely examined?

You can't even remotely consider Dalton absent from this team's long term plans. And, I agree that one pro-bowl season, and one season (this season) where he was mediocre is enough to consider moving on.

Mentioned this in another thread, I would love to see a little QB competition in training camp....say with the Bengals trading with SF for Alex Smith? I wonder if that would make a difference in both Dalton's and Smith's performance?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:56 AM
Ian Demagii Ian Demagii is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,325
Rep Points: 2594
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Boon View Post
There's no controversy. Dalton is the starter next year. The question is whether he can be good enough to take this team to the next level. Right now, he is seriously lacking in downfield accuracy, awareness and poise. Many say he is physically limited (which I guess compared to other QB's he is) but I think his biggest issues are mental. I never played QB so I don't know how realistic it is to expect a guy that is horribly erratic with downfield throws to markedly improve. I mean, I'm sure that its something that he's been working on for a while, no?
He gets one more year-even Hobson says so. Mikey Brown gives QB's 3 years...before he evaluates-this is probaboly a good practice. If he continues to stink it up, he's through! I still want a QB drafted-this is not the year to take one high so there might be some bargains.

Ian
__________________
Sorry to burst your bubble, but its a passing league...
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:34 AM
degolfisfun degolfisfun is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 368
Rep Points: 357
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODRAB14 View Post
Dalton is our starter for 2013 No doubt about it. What fans and this coaching staff need to realize is that this guy can succeed with complimentary parts. To go into Saturdays game with the mindset of chucking it around the yard is absolute stupidty. The game plan was terrible. Dalton's best games and most QB's best games came when we ran the ball effectively. Yes it is more of a passing league but you still run the ball to control the line of scrimmage. We did not run the ball well in December or Saturday. Dalton had three straight Passer ratings of 100 when BJGE was going good. On Saturday BJGE average 5.7 and didn't run the ball. Ok so we decide to chuck it around but yet we don't target our best player.

In 2013, the fans, coaches and media have to realize there are only so many Aaron Rogers and Brady's. We have Andy Dalton. He is an average QB who can be a good QB but will probably never be elite. He struggles with pressure and coming off reads. So how do you fix that. You have to have compliments around him. You have to beef up your Oline, you have to run the ball. Look at yesterdays games. ravens ran for like 150 yards, Seahwaks ran for 200, Texans ran for about 150. Plus all those teams have good checkdown running backs. The league gives you the answers on how to succeed but can this staff and QB figure it out.
Agree with 90% of your view. Where we disagree is on the OL assessment. I think we have a good O Line .... perhaps very good in running and average in pass pro. But overall, as good as anybody's in our Division and better than most in the league. I won't disagree that a C upgrade might be in order. However Andre must be resigned or the run game will go south.

As I've said in previous posts, I think there is a huge difference between Pressure and Offensive Line issues. We've seen Pressure that 5 OL guys are dealing with pretty well. It is the QB and Coordinator that need to deal with it better and differently.

I think Sanu shows promise as a Slot guy and I'm OK with the future there. I don't know however that we're good enough at #2 WR though. I think a Free Agent upgrade is needed although the draft is strong with WRs. Most of all however, we need a RB. I saw something about Reggie Bush. Yes, someone like him than can catch a down-the-field 25 yard pass as well as bounce outside on running plays for 50-60 yards/game would be perfect IMO. That would stop alot of this pressure-nonsense.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-07-2013, 01:37 PM
Cincy's Best's Avatar
Cincy's Best Cincy's Best is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Demon's Run
Posts: 3,574
Rep Points: 4146
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by degolfisfun View Post
I am fully OK with your approach of giving Dalton a Year 3. BUT ONLY or IF we feel we can address his current short-comings which only seemed to manifest theirselves in the last 3-4 games. Through the SD or Dallas game he was fine. The problem is dealing with pressure in his face. IMO opposing teams have found out that he does not deal well with pressure in his face. THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN A LEAKY OL which we do not have in my opinion. He quick triggers a high hard one to his #1 read or tries to bail out-of-the -pocket with even lesser results. He is not very good at standing in there and going to his #2 or #3 read.

If these are correctable via coaching, then we have an optimistic future. If not, then I'm ready to move on today. Whatever that means. Flacco? Romo? Smith? or other "Average" QBs in the league?
You use the word IF.... I think his "shortcomings" are correctable. Only way to know is to give him year 3. So like I said before, there is no one out there right now or even in the draft, not even Geno Smith, that is better than Dalton is. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning aren't going anywhere. Luck is in Indy. Drew Brees is only successful with Sean Payton, Rodgers is GB's new Favre. All of these guys are already taken. So stand behind what you have or root for one of these other teams that has a QB that you can root for.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-07-2013, 01:56 PM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 33,721
Rep Points: 32168
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Nobody ever talks about our QB coach....Ken Zampese. Doesn't the job he's done need to be closely examined?

You can't even remotely consider Dalton absent from this team's long term plans. And, I agree that one pro-bowl season, and one season (this season) where he was mediocre is enough to consider moving on.

Mentioned this in another thread, I would love to see a little QB competition in training camp....say with the Bengals trading with SF for Alex Smith? I wonder if that would make a difference in both Dalton's and Smith's performance?
Hey I like it Smith was doing well this year till he got bumped in the head..

Im pretty sure he will get picked up as a starter though but if not bring him in to light that firee.
__________________

FOOTBALL... The New Age Gladiator Games...
Tiger Squrriel Is Hungry
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:03 PM
Johnny Cupcakes's Avatar
Johnny Cupcakes Johnny Cupcakes is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The District
Posts: 11,809
Rep Points: 21448
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

There is no QB controversy. Maybe if Dalton fails to take the next step next season they'll bring someone in to compete with him, but at this point, I would say he still has a strong hold on the starting spot....

People are trying to decide the fate of a player after a very short time in the league. He's been rather good in that time period....but when people expect the next Tom Brady, of course they're going to be let down.
__________________

Join the Bengals Message Board Survivor League. You know you want to....
http://boards.bengals.com/showthread.php?t=125239
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:29 PM
urinalcake's Avatar
urinalcake urinalcake is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 646
Rep Points: 1569
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Nope.

People can bltch and moan all they want around here, but Dalton's not going anywhere and we're not drafting someone high enough to compete with him next year. Just not going to happen.

Bet possible situation would be upgrading the offense elsewhere as much as possible and seeing what Dalton does at that point. If we give him major upgrades at Oline, RB and WR - he'll have to put up much better numbers or he'll be splitting snaps with someone in the preseason.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:53 PM
Chop Block Chop Block is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,783
Rep Points: 50
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Who_dey_hooligan View Post
Cincinnati Bengals Quarterbacks whove had at least 2 years worth of start. These stats reflect their first 2 years as a Bengal, and more than 8 starts in a season. Yes, I understand o-lines and running backs do play a role. These stats reflect the regular season only.

Virgil Carter 56.8 average completion, 29 TDs, 16 INTs, 76.5 passer rating over 23 total starts
Played 3 years and then was replace by

Ken Anderson 55.6 average completion, 25 TDs, 19INTs, 77.6 passer rating over 27 starts
Played 15 more seasons (13 as a fulltime starter) before being replaced by.

Boomer Esiason 58.2 average completion, 51 TDs, 29 INTs, 90.6 passer rating over 31 starts
Played 6 more seasons as a starter and was replaced by

David Klingler 56.0 average completion, 12 TDs, 18 INTs, 66.1 passer rating over 21 starts
Lost his starting role in 1994 to.

Jeff Blake 54.3 average completion, 42 TDs, 26 INTs, 79.5 passer rating over 25 starts
Played 4 more seasons and was replaced by.

Akili Smith 48 average completion, 5 TD, 12 INTs, 54 passer rating over 15 starts
Didnt last long at all and pretty much disappeared after one full season for..

Jon Kitna 58.5 average completion, 41 TDs, 35 INTs, 78 passer rating over 27 starts
These stats are from Kitnas first 2 years as a starter which were from Seattle not Cincy. He played another 3 years and then he was replaced by

Carson Palmer- 64.5 average completion, 50 TDs, 30 INTs, 89.3 passer rating over 29 starts
He played a total of 7 years before he was replaced by.

Andy Dalton 60.0 average completion, 47 TDs, 29 INTs, 83.9 passer rating over 32 starts

So, what does it all mean? Well, it would appear that Carson probably had the best start for a Bengals QB that weve ever seen, but if you compare the next best; its Andy. Andys statistics are very similar to another great Bengals QB: Boomer Esiason. Andys downfall up to this point is that he has grown up exceptionally fast and has been successful enough to take us to the playoffs in his first two years. With success comes greater expectations, and therefore, Andy will never be great unless he ascends to the next level; a playoff win.

I admit, I was ****** off after yesterdays loss. I was extremely aggravated at our offense, and its inability to convert and make plays, but if history is any indicator; Andy should have a great year next year. So, I propose that we reserve our anger and judgement for at least another year. We see that if he remains healthy he could continue to put up numbers we've never seen before (In my opinion). I propose we direct our anger at our coaching staff (or lack thereof). I propose that we identify obvious problems like Reys inability to stop anything. I welcome anyone to interpret these stats anyway they would like to, but I think its pretty much self explanatory.
the ref's were NOT much help either.. all the holding and the bad hit AJ took in the in zone.. A call in the in zone would of give the Bengals points..it's like the ref's were blind..
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:14 PM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 33,721
Rep Points: 32168
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

We have to have 2 Starting caliber QBs for there to be a controversy


/Thread
__________________

FOOTBALL... The New Age Gladiator Games...
Tiger Squrriel Is Hungry
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:13 PM
tmangoud tmangoud is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 805
Rep Points: 950
Default Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by degolfisfun View Post
Agree with 90% of your view. Where we disagree is on the OL assessment. I think we have a good O Line .... perhaps very good in running and average in pass pro. But overall, as good as anybody's in our Division and better than most in the league. I won't disagree that a C upgrade might be in order. However Andre must be resigned or the run game will go south.

As I've said in previous posts, I think there is a huge difference between Pressure and Offensive Line issues. We've seen Pressure that 5 OL guys are dealing with pretty well. It is the QB and Coordinator that need to deal with it better and differently.

I think Sanu shows promise as a Slot guy and I'm OK with the future there. I don't know however that we're good enough at #2 WR though. I think a Free Agent upgrade is needed although the draft is strong with WRs. Most of all however, we need a RB. I saw something about Reggie Bush. Yes, someone like him than can catch a down-the-field 25 yard pass as well as bounce outside on running plays for 50-60 yards/game would be perfect IMO. That would stop alot of this pressure-nonsense.
I stopped reading when he thought we had a good O-line......
Quote
Better than most in the league.
End Quote.

That tells me all I need to know..............


What coach or F/A is going to help Dalton with his speed...or lack there of?
The dude is the least mobil QB in football.
What running back is going to give Dalton a strong arm?

Hell----put enough great players around me and I could be Quarterback.
Is that what I'm hearing?
__________________
tman
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:27 PM
fortyyearfan fortyyearfan is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,990
Rep Points: 1681
bengals Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmangoud View Post
I stopped reading when he thought we had a good O-line......
Quote
Better than most in the league.
End Quote.

That tells me all I need to know..............


What coach or F/A is going to help Dalton with his speed...or lack there of?
The dude is the least mobil QB in football.
What running back is going to give Dalton a strong arm?

Hell----put enough great players around me and I could be Quarterback.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Yes, our qb is a huge problem. will he get better. somewhat. will he lead us the the superbowl and win it. NEVER!!! Andy is a guy that needs a full-time quarterbacks coach, like KEN ANDERSON.save this post, please.Our team will not win the division next year.The stoolers will. Better coaching, better players,better franchrise.We are stuck with this mess.To me,we need this so bad, a complete change throughout this organization.It will not happen,you know!!! By the way, that playoff game was the worse I have ever witnessed, expecially on offense. That was so ugly, i so hope all the networks all year hammer this organization all year. They so deserve it.Not using the best player we have until the second half !!!That is criminal for sure. It is crazy to think how bad this team played.All blame is on head coach, jay gruden and andy dalton for not making adjustments and showing some passion to win.It was ugly to watch.The biggest problem for us fans, they will not do anything about it and it will be another season and then they will try. its nuts.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:39 PM
fortyyearfan fortyyearfan is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,990
Rep Points: 1681
bengals Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalsFan024 View Post
Hey I like it Smith was doing well this year till he got bumped in the head..

Im pretty sure he will get picked up as a starter though but if not bring him in to light that firee.
Andy Dalton has a problem reading top defenses, makes poor decisions and does not take to coaching of teaching very well. Jay Gruden has tried working with this guy for weeks and he does not get any better, and he now has happy feet.I know no one likes to get hit, but he does not go through his progressions very well ,pulls it down and runs for nothing.In the game AJ was wide open, no one near him 10 yds and Andy did not see him.It would have been an easy TD.Instead he pulled it down and ran for a 1st down, but could have had a touchdown.We wound up punting it, as they stopped us again.This is why he will not be a top qb. I am saying this at this time.I feel he is too short, makes terrible decisions, and has a bad long ball. does not push off with his throwing leg.He is terrible to watch. Seems to have degressed, and thats a BAD THING.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:48 PM
fortyyearfan fortyyearfan is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,990
Rep Points: 1681
bengals Re: QB controversy or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Nobody ever talks about our QB coach....Ken Zampese. Doesn't the job he's done need to be closely examined?

You can't even remotely consider Dalton absent from this team's long term plans. And, I agree that one pro-bowl season, and one season (this season) where he was mediocre is enough to consider moving on.

Mentioned this in another thread, I would love to see a little QB competition in training camp....say with the Bengals trading with SF for Alex Smith? I wonder if that would make a difference in both Dalton's and Smith's performance?
I have said many times on here, all coaches with this team that have been here 5-6 years need to go.Been here too long and change is a good thing.Players get used to certain coaches and find a way to tune them out.Marvin shows no emotion or passion,and coaches that go deep in the playoffs, ALL HAVE A GOOD REPORE WITH THEIR PLAYERS.Look around the NFL.The coaches that make it to the playoffs, all of them are high energy guys, with alot of emotion.Your players feed off that stuff.RAVENS, STEELERS,NINERS,SEAHAWKS,DENVER, PATS.all these teams have coaches that are passionate,with alot of emotions.Football is a game of emotions, believe that.watch coach kelley tonight with the irish team and coach saban.JACK-UP DUDES.GIGGLES IS AWLFUL.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2012 Cincinnati Bengals. All rights reserved. Do not duplicate in any form without permission of the Cincinnati Bengals.