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  #576  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

I think we have bigger fish to fry than Gresh. How about Cook watching defenders fly by him Saturday? I'm all for getting rid of Cook and starting Robinson or Faine. They both did better than Cook in my opinion. Back to the TE thing. Gresh has good hands, he's caught passes this year that he shouldn't have and he's dropped some that my 10 year old sister could have (but then again, the whole team has had drops the past few weeks)

We are all judging Gresh based on the past 5 weeks. The offense wasn't steam rolling and we heavily relied on the defense. Maybe, we should be figuring out how to get Green in double coverage, not triple, and we can get some offensive W's on the board.
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Todd Gurley is going to be the next top RB in college football... Gurley needs to be in stripes. He isn't going to be in the draft this year, but next season, he needs to be wearing stripes.
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  #577  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by bwh View Post
Good Points. What sense would it make for the Bengals to get rid of Gresham ? Who would they replace him with ? If the Bengals got rid of Gresham,then that would create another need to fill in the offseason. The Bengals have several needs already without creating other ones for no reason.
Having Gresham in the line up creates a hole in and of itself. The guy is a mediocre blocking TE and a mediocre receiver.

Take Travis Kelce in round 3 and let Gresham battle him and Charles for playing time and if he loses out (which is my bet) you cut/trade him.

One thing to remember about Gresham is that he was drafted under the old CBA which allowed rookies to make a lot more money.
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  #578  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
How ever could we upgrade a the who is ranked last in the NFL?
You could upgrade him by coaching him up, something I hear about but rarely see with this group of coaches, like someone else said I'd bet Gresham would be all world in the Pats system and Gronk would be run out of town by an angry mob

Also being a good NFL player takes more than just coaching, you have to be taught to be a pro, practice like a pro, prepare like a pro, walk like a pro and play like a pro, all too many times it appears the Bengals system drafts the player, inserts the player and then relies on the coaching he received in college.
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  #579  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:23 PM
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bengals Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by Lawless_1 View Post
Having Gresham in the line up creates a hole in and of itself. The guy is a mediocre blocking TE and a mediocre receiver.

Take Travis Kelce in round 3 and let Gresham battle him and Charles for playing time and if he loses out (which is my bet) you cut/trade him.

One thing to remember about Gresham is that he was drafted under the old CBA which allowed rookies to make a lot more money.
A previous person was saying he was going to be a FA who will want a lot of money (even though he's not a FA until 2015).. and now you're saying he was drafted under the old CBA, which doesn't really matter a whole ton.

Gresham (2010 21st overall) will be counting $2.2m against the cap next season, which is his 4th... Chandler Jones (2012 21st overall) in his 4th season will be counting $2.6m against the cap. The rookie cap just impacted the earlier first round picks from making a ton of money. It had little to no effect on the later first round picks.
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  #580  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
A previous person was saying he was going to be a FA who will want a lot of money (even though he's not a FA until 2015).. and now you're saying he was drafted under the old CBA, which doesn't really matter a whole ton.

Gresham (2010 21st overall) will be counting $2.2m against the cap next season, which is his 4th... Chandler Jones (2012 21st overall) in his 4th season will be counting $2.6m against the cap. The rookie cap just impacted the earlier first round picks from making a ton of money. It had little to no effect on the later first round picks.
Phil Taylor (the 21st pick in 2011) Signed a four-year, $8,093,250 contract. The deal included a $4.368 million signing bonus. 2013: $1,110,750, 2014: $750,000 (+ $728,625 roster bonus due in March)
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  #581  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:39 PM
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bengals Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by Lawless_1 View Post
Phil Taylor (the 21st pick in 2011) Signed a four-year, $8,093,250 contract. The deal included a $4.368 million signing bonus. 2013: $1,110,750, 2014: $750,000 (+ $728,625 roster bonus due in March)
The signing bonus doesn't just magically go away it's cap hit is spread over those four years, and the roster bonus counts against the cap too... base salary is a very small part of it.. In 2013 he counts as $2.2m against the cap and in 2014 he counts as $2.5m against the cap...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland...s/phil-taylor/

As I said.. there's not really a huge difference.
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Last edited by TheLeonardLeap; 01-07-2013 at 10:42 PM.
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  #582  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
You could upgrade him by coaching him up, something I hear about but rarely see with this group of coaches, like someone else said I'd bet Gresham would be all world in the Pats system and Gronk would be run out of town by an angry mob

Also being a good NFL player takes more than just coaching, you have to be taught to be a pro, practice like a pro, prepare like a pro, walk like a pro and play like a pro, all too many times it appears the Bengals system drafts the player, inserts the player and then relies on the coaching he received in college.
To some extent but he drops wide open passed. That's not coaching.
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  #583  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

Maybe Trade Gresh and one of our 2nd round picks to move up for a chance to land a game changer. If there are any.
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  #584  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Maybe Trade Gresh and one of our 2nd round picks to move up for a chance to land a game changer. If there are any.
Ohhh! I like that. But it probably will not be possible. But if it were, I would pull the trigger (if I was the Bengals GM). But I am ok with Gresham next year at TE. I am also prepared for that reality.
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  #585  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
Considering his lackluster performance in the playoff game, and considering he wasn't man enough to face the media after the game; Maybe the Bengals should consider making a change at the position. He may not be a big game player. 1st round pick or no 1st round pick.

Just a thought.
I don't find him too impressive, mainly because of his reliability issues. But he's not going anywhere. Maybe his position coach should, though.
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  #586  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

Gresham is either:
Overrated
Underutilized
Or both.

Definitely a disappointment thus far given his draft status.
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  #587  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by Ben zoo 2 View Post
Gresham is either:
Overrated
Underutilized
Or both.

Definitely a disappointment thus far given his draft status.
Both sounds pretty spot on.
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  #588  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
You could upgrade him by coaching him up, something I hear about but rarely see with this group of coaches, like someone else said I'd bet Gresham would be all world in the Pats system and Gronk would be run out of town by an angry mob

Also being a good NFL player takes more than just coaching, you have to be taught to be a pro, practice like a pro, prepare like a pro, walk like a pro and play like a pro, all too many times it appears the Bengals system drafts the player, inserts the player and then relies on the coaching he received in college.
This!
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  #589  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

We should either

A. Go back in time, trade back with the pick we landed Gresham netting an extra 2nd and 3rd and use those picks to select Gronkowski and Jimmy Graham.

or

B. Let the 24 year old with two years left on his contract try to continue to improve.

You don't just cut a guy with time left on his contract and reasonable salaries when he is the best you have at that position.
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  #590  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
To some extent but he drops wide open passed. That's not coaching.
Sure it is, its coaching , its management, its accountability, there is no accountability from the top of the organization down to the water boy, being clutch is a mindset. its a mission statement from an organization.

Everything from the top to the bottom is lackluster, it permeates every facet of the game
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  #591  
Old 01-08-2013, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

Gresham is solid at TE, but the Bengals are not using him properly.


A new OC and TE coach would go a long way towards improving Gresham's play though. That said, it isn't as bad as people think, imagining the grass is greener when the numbers say otherwise.

Gresham, 68% catch to target percentage.

Gronkowski, 68% as well...

Hernandez, 61%.

Vernon Davis, 67%.

Jimmy Graham, 63%.

Dennis Pitta, 65%.

Antonia Gates, 61%

Owen Daniels, 60%.

Dallas Clark, 63%.

Pettigrew, 58%.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

Relax. Gresham is fine. He just needs to work on his blocking and have some coaches replaced.
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  #592  
Old 01-08-2013, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by NATI BENGALS View Post
We should either

A. Go back in time, trade back with the pick we landed Gresham netting an extra 2nd and 3rd and use those picks to select Gronkowski and Jimmy Graham.

or

B. Let the 24 year old with two years left on his contract try to continue to improve.

You don't just cut a guy with time left on his contract and reasonable salaries when he is the best you have at that position.
But is he really the best? I bet Charles is just as good, if not better. But, since Gresham is the higher draft pick, we will probably never really know.
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  #593  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
Gresham is solid at TE, but the Bengals are not using him properly.


A new OC and TE coach would go a long way towards improving Gresham's play though. That said, it isn't as bad as people think, imagining the grass is greener when the numbers say otherwise.

Gresham, 68% catch to target percentage.

Gronkowski, 68% as well...

Hernandez, 61%.

Vernon Davis, 67%.

Jimmy Graham, 63%.

Dennis Pitta, 65%.

Antonia Gates, 61%

Owen Daniels, 60%.

Dallas Clark, 63%.

Pettigrew, 58%.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

Relax. Gresham is fine. He just needs to work on his blocking and have some coaches replaced.
So how do you use a guy that isn't fast enough to stretch the seam, drops balls and can't separate one on one because he refuses to use his size?

I was following Twitter during the game and noticed several sports writers in a conversation about how incredibly slow Gresham looks.

It seemed to take them by surprise, I think he has looked slow from day one.

I actually thought that Gresham might be breaking out mid year but he seemed to go right back to being inconsistent.

I hope he uses his playoff game performance as motivation for this coming year.
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  #594  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:12 AM
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bengals Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Sure it is, its coaching , its management, its accountability, there is no accountability from the top of the organization down to the water boy, being clutch is a mindset. its a mission statement from an organization.

Everything from the top to the bottom is lackluster, it permeates every facet of the game
# 84 has had 3 years to get better. he has not. enough said.This guy will cost us two games or more in 2013. he is terrible.He gets pulled down right after he catches the ball.for a top draft pick, he is a failure.i do not like him, period.
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  #595  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:17 AM
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bengals Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
Gresham is solid at TE, but the Bengals are not using him properly.


A new OC and TE coach would go a long way towards improving Gresham's play though. That said, it isn't as bad as people think, imagining the grass is greener when the numbers say otherwise.

Gresham, 68% catch to target percentage.

Gronkowski, 68% as well...

Hernandez, 61%.

Vernon Davis, 67%.

Jimmy Graham, 63%.

Dennis Pitta, 65%.

Antonia Gates, 61%

Owen Daniels, 60%.

Dallas Clark, 63%.

Pettigrew, 58%.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

Relax. Gresham is fine. He just needs to work on his blocking and have some coaches replaced.
COACHING, COACHING, IS THE BIG PROBLEM HERE IN THE NATI.Need to change several coaches out.qb coach,0-line coach, OC NEEDS TO BE HUE JACKSON.several position coaches need to go. been here to long and are not productive.players are not following their lead. its very obvious.you will see come 2013
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  #596  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by fortyyearfan View Post
# 84 has had 3 years to get better. he has not. enough said.This guy will cost us two games or more in 2013. he is terrible.He gets pulled down right after he catches the ball.for a top draft pick, he is a failure.i do not like him, period.
No he doesn't. He struggles with blocking, and drops some passes, but to say he gets pulled down right after making the catch is ridiculous. He lead all TE's in the NFL in yards after catch, and was 14th best in the NFL overall in that category. Bash him for things he doesn't do well, but don't make stuff up to bash him about. By the way, Gresham had 442 yards after catch this season.
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  #597  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:21 AM
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bengals Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Sure it is, its coaching , its management, its accountability, there is no accountability from the top of the organization down to the water boy, being clutch is a mindset. its a mission statement from an organization.

Everything from the top to the bottom is lackluster, it permeates every facet of the game
Well said Storm, you just hit a home run. i am making you the post guy of the day. now the posts on here is making sense.it starts with coaching first,we have a C- staff.and if we lose zim, we are finishing last in this division AGAIN.
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  #598  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:25 AM
Tommy Casanova 72-77 Tommy Casanova 72-77 is offline
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

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Originally Posted by PApinhead View Post
But is he really the best? I bet Charles is just as good, if not better. But, since Gresham is the higher draft pick, we will probably never really know.
They could trade him like they did the LB last year and get at least a 2nd for him. There are good TE's available this year in the draft. Since they do not make their TE a focal point of the O anyways...maybe they can get one who can block better and has better hands at least.
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  #599  
Old 01-09-2013, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Jermaine Gresham

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Originally Posted by Bengalrocker View Post
I never said they win big games, they lost every game to a playoff team this season. But trying
to put blame on Gresham is ridiculous, it was his first season with AD and Jay Gruden.
They lost to the Redskins????
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Time to part ways with Gresham?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
Gresham is solid at TE, but the Bengals are not using him properly.


A new OC and TE coach would go a long way towards improving Gresham's play though. That said, it isn't as bad as people think, imagining the grass is greener when the numbers say otherwise.

Gresham, 68% catch to target percentage.

Gronkowski, 68% as well...

Hernandez, 61%.

Vernon Davis, 67%.

Jimmy Graham, 63%.

Dennis Pitta, 65%.

Antonia Gates, 61%

Owen Daniels, 60%.

Dallas Clark, 63%.

Pettigrew, 58%.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

Relax. Gresham is fine. He just needs to work on his blocking and have some coaches replaced.

Interesting numbers. However pro football focus had Gresham as the lowest rated tight end. He hasn't impressed me
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