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  #51  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by old man View Post
Thanks 024
And thats if after Year 3 Andy still figures into the long term plans. After next year we could be looking at new HC or what have you.

And if we end up drafting a new guy it will be 3 years before he can be extended. (not saying this is what i want just thats its possible if rumors of GM are true)


But the same rules that make us wait to extend our players is what makes those top draft picks super expensive Premier player(if you pick right) stuck on a rookie wage scale deal for at least 3 solid years.

So when someone talks about Trading Way up to get someone that someone better be worth alot of High draft picks over the next few years. (WONT HAPPEN)
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  #52  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by D.Boon View Post
There was also no mandate to spend to the Salary Cap floor. The new CBA specifically put this in to address free riders like Mike Brown and Ralph Wilson. What hasn't been made clear is what the penalty is. In other words, MB might be able to save more money just absorbing the penalty and remaining 30 mil under cap.
Whatever we are short of spending to reach the new Floor (the floor which is based soley on base salaries and not player bonuses) Is given out evenly to the players on the roster i believe. *(ill go look that up)
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  #53  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
We've covered why the floor won't increase spending over and over.

There was a floor in the CBA a few years ago. This is nothing new. For the uncapped year and last year there weren't.
The previous floor was 84% with the ability to use false incentives to reach that floor. The new CBa requires a 95% cash based floor meaning they have to spend 95% of the cap in actual contracts not bogus incentives.
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  #54  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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The higher floor proposal could cause some problems for the lower revenue teams such as the Cincinnati Bengals and the Buffalo Bills. Along with the salary cap, teams have to pay an average of about $27 million a year in benefits.
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2011/6/2...ive-bargaining

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Under the new NFL collective bargaining agreement, a team must spend 89% of the salary cap annually in cash or be subject to fines and potential loss of draft picks. This was a major sticking point for the players in brokering the new deal because they were being asked to take less money from the pot, so they wanted to make sure the pot was as large as possible to make up some of the difference.
http://tampabay.sbnation.com/2011/7/...ect-until-2013

89% base in straight cash no signing bonuses or incentives. And that 89% must be the average over 4 years so if we were below it the past 2 years we will have to be above it the next 2.
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  #55  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Au165 View Post
The previous floor was 84% with the ability to use false incentives to reach that floor. The new CBa requires a 95% cash based floor meaning they have to spend 95% of the cap in actual contracts not bogus incentives.
Okay it might be 95%
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  #56  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by BengalsFan024 View Post
Okay it might be 95%
I have seen the 89% and I have seen the 95%. I also heard it increases every year for the next few years. All I know is it is more than we spend now.
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  #57  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Au165 View Post
The previous floor was 84% with the ability to use false incentives to reach that floor. The new CBa requires a 95% cash based floor meaning they have to spend 95% of the cap in actual contracts not bogus incentives.
The 95% is league wide. The minimum per team is 89%.
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  #58  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Au165 View Post
The previous floor was 84% with the ability to use false incentives to reach that floor. The new CBa requires a 95% cash based floor meaning they have to spend 95% of the cap in actual contracts not bogus incentives.
I think you will find bonuses are also a part of the cap. However, the team can pro rate the bonus over the entire length of the contract or they can thow the bonus in one year. This gives the team some flexibility in managing the cap.

It is also why some of us suggest to pay a guy like Atkins a huge bonus (less salary) and record 100% of the bonus to the 2013 cap because we have room. For example, let's say we decide to pay him 9 million a year for 5 years or a 43 million contract. It could be paid as follows:

Year1 bonus and salary 19 million, year 2 - 5 6 million a year. In this case, Atkins would be a huge cap hit upfront (where we have cap room) without killing our cap space in later years. I may be wrong after reading a coupke of earlier posts, but I don't see how they can't count actually signing bonuses towards the cap. I can understand all of the incentives not counting because they are not guarantees, but a bonus is a guarantee.
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  #59  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

Big Big Number.....But the folks are right, most of that will be used on re-upping deals...Not to mention Green is going to want big time bucks soon too. If dalton has a big 2013, 2014 is his last contract year
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  #60  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by BengalsFan024 View Post
The worse part about all that is if we were cap tight and having to cut a good player every year for cap space everyone would be *****ing about cap management.

When we have extra to actually do what we need to with it. Everyone *****es we are not spending it. New flash we only can have 53 guys... And 2 of the Major positions which demand High Pay are just entering their 3rd years and we cannot reUp to a contract normal of their position yet. (which is why we have some extra money...... Andy/AJ salary is nothing compared to what Palmer and Chad were making)
Those teams also restructure player contracts constantly to sign more players.

The Bengals had $30 million in cap space...before Atkins emerged. Before AJ Green played a down.

The "We have to save cap space to retain our own" is just PR spin by an organization that doesn't want to spend.
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  #61  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Au165 View Post
The previous floor was 84% with the ability to use false incentives to reach that floor. The new CBa requires a 95% cash based floor meaning they have to spend 95% of the cap in actual contracts not bogus incentives.
The previous floor was also a league-wide floor. The new rules require each team to spend up to the minimum.
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  #62  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Who Dey Time View Post
The 95% is league wide. The minimum per team is 89%.
That makes sense because you figure they will balance out at that 95% floor.
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  #63  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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That makes sense because you figure they will balance out at that 95% floor.
Where are people getting 95% as the floor? It's 89% next year.
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  #64  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:57 PM
Who Dey Time Who Dey Time is offline
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

Here is how it works.....Using as simple numbers as I can.

Let's say the 2013 salary cap is $120-million (it will be close to this, probably a bit higher)


An individual team will be required to spend 89% cash-to-cap. Cash to cap is essentially salary + prorated bonus (or entire bonus for a released player). Using my $120-million number, an individual team will be required to spend roughly $106.8 million.

All 32 teams together are required to spend 95% of the total cap available. In my example, the total cap available from all 32 teams is 3.84 billion dollars. When you add all of the cap numbers from all 32 teams, that number must equal at least 3.648 billion to be in compliance.

What will happen, is that lower revenue teams will spend close to the 89% while higher revenue teams will pick up the difference to get the league to 95%.
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  #65  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Who Dey Time View Post
Here is how it works.....Using as simple numbers as I can.

Let's say the 2013 salary cap is $120-million (it will be close to this, probably a bit higher)


An individual team will be required to spend 89% cash-to-cap. Cash to cap is essentially salary + prorated bonus (or entire bonus for a released player). Using my $120-million number, an individual team will be required to spend roughly $106.8 million.

All 32 teams together are required to spend 95% of the total cap available. In my example, the total cap available from all 32 teams is 3.84 billion dollars. When you add all of the cap numbers from all 32 teams, that number must equal at least 3.648 billion to be in compliance.

What will happen, is that lower revenue teams will spend close to the 89% while higher revenue teams will pick up the difference to get the league to 95%.
You got it.
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  #66  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Who Dey Time View Post
Here is how it works.....Using as simple numbers as I can.

Let's say the 2013 salary cap is $120-million (it will be close to this, probably a bit higher)


An individual team will be required to spend 89% cash-to-cap. Cash to cap is essentially salary + prorated bonus (or entire bonus for a released player). Using my $120-million number, an individual team will be required to spend roughly $106.8 million.

All 32 teams together are required to spend 95% of the total cap available. In my example, the total cap available from all 32 teams is 3.84 billion dollars. When you add all of the cap numbers from all 32 teams, that number must equal at least 3.648 billion to be in compliance.

What will happen, is that lower revenue teams will spend close to the 89% while higher revenue teams will pick up the difference to get the league to 95%.

And my brain assplodes!
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  #67  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
Where are people getting 95% as the floor? It's 89% next year.
The 95% was the league wide number.
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  #68  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

Yeah no team is stupid enough to take on Cook with a trade, we either cut him and cut our loses with the money or use him as a backup and draft a Center HIGH!
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  #69  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Who Dey Time View Post
Here is how it works.....Using as simple numbers as I can.

Let's say the 2013 salary cap is $120-million (it will be close to this, probably a bit higher)


An individual team will be required to spend 89% cash-to-cap. Cash to cap is essentially salary + prorated bonus (or entire bonus for a released player). Using my $120-million number, an individual team will be required to spend roughly $106.8 million.

All 32 teams together are required to spend 95% of the total cap available. In my example, the total cap available from all 32 teams is 3.84 billion dollars. When you add all of the cap numbers from all 32 teams, that number must equal at least 3.648 billion to be in compliance.

What will happen, is that lower revenue teams will spend close to the 89% while higher revenue teams will pick up the difference to get the league to 95%.
Thanks
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  #70  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Who Dey Time View Post
Here is how it works.....Using as simple numbers as I can.

Let's say the 2013 salary cap is $120-million (it will be close to this, probably a bit higher)


An individual team will be required to spend 89% cash-to-cap. Cash to cap is essentially salary + prorated bonus (or entire bonus for a released player). Using my $120-million number, an individual team will be required to spend roughly $106.8 million.

All 32 teams together are required to spend 95% of the total cap available. In my example, the total cap available from all 32 teams is 3.84 billion dollars. When you add all of the cap numbers from all 32 teams, that number must equal at least 3.648 billion to be in compliance.

What will happen, is that lower revenue teams will spend close to the 89% while higher revenue teams will pick up the difference to get the league to 95%.
Still the Bengals will need to increase spending. Using the JJ example if they were 30 mil under the cap (let's say the Cap was 110 mil...i have no idea what it was or wasn't) that means they only spent to 72% of the cap. To hit the 89% they can no longer be 30 mil under as they have in previous years.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012...t-cap-strategy

Well, there should be ZERO excuse for signing all of our young talent in the offseason. The Bengals lead the NFL in cap space.
It is interesting to look at rest of the division.

Steelers are over 10 million and don't have wallace under contract.

Ravens are 15 million over which looks good until you consider Reed and Flacco are not under contract nor is Ray Lewis who retired, but they have to replace him with someone. Flacco could be anywhere between 12 to 14 million salary cap hit in 2013. Point being ravens are not in great shape either.

Browns and Bengals are both in great shape.
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Last edited by Luvnit2; 01-08-2013 at 10:24 PM.
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  #72  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:24 PM
Who Dey Time Who Dey Time is offline
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by D.Boon View Post
Still the Bengals will need to increase spending. Using the JJ example if they were 30 mil under the cap (let's say the Cap was 110 mil...i have no idea what it was or wasn't) that means they only spent to 72% of the cap. To hit the 89% they can no longer be 30 mil under as they have in previous years.
The JJ example is what will bring the high spending teams back to the Bengals way of handling contracts, not the other way around.
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  #73  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by Who Dey Time View Post
Here is how it works.....Using as simple numbers as I can.

Let's say the 2013 salary cap is $120-million (it will be close to this, probably a bit higher)


An individual team will be required to spend 89% cash-to-cap. Cash to cap is essentially salary + prorated bonus (or entire bonus for a released player). Using my $120-million number, an individual team will be required to spend roughly $106.8 million.

All 32 teams together are required to spend 95% of the total cap available. In my example, the total cap available from all 32 teams is 3.84 billion dollars. When you add all of the cap numbers from all 32 teams, that number must equal at least 3.648 billion to be in compliance.

What will happen, is that lower revenue teams will spend close to the 89% while higher revenue teams will pick up the difference to get the league to 95%.
Almost on the money. Pro rated signing bonuses do not count as cash to cap. I cited it in a thread last night. So for example a contract with a 4 million dollar signing bonus in 2013 counts all 4 million towards cash to cap - it only counts 1 million towards salary cap itself though. Go to 2014. That contract counts only its base salary and none of the bonus towards cash to cap.
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  #74  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
Those teams also restructure player contracts constantly to sign more players.

The Bengals had $30 million in cap space...before Atkins emerged. Before AJ Green played a down.

The "We have to save cap space to retain our own" is just PR spin by an organization that doesn't want to spend.
Which is why Free Agents and players under contracts have been holding out for better deals all the time...

Teams will force them to restructure or get cut. They are still getting paid the same most time but it pushes the money back Which the player has no gaurentee of. This wont work in the future as well as it has in the past.
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  #75  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Shocker - Cap Space

Every team will be at the cap floor so all you guys are doing is
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