Dalton = Sanchez

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by Go Cards

Shake is absolutely correct and so is Cloe in my opinion.

Not enough weapons and O-line injuries when we were already bringing a new guy in did not help. Guard, Center, Guard, all new.

That is brutal in the NFL and a recipe for some chaotic play at times.

NFL defense are experts at exposing weaknesses.

Proud of these Bengals. Could have quit at half way point. Have seen other Bengals teams mail it in when struggling at that point of season. But these Bengals manned up.
But ran into bad match up in Playoffs.

Wasnt a bad match up,,was their best bet,,,was BAD COACHING

[Bull Durham]

It's a combination of lots of things.

The O-Line needs to play better. We need a RB who is a threat in the passing game who can be an outlet, run screens, etc. We need a starting caliber WR to go along with AJ. Maybe another TE to develop and provide another threat to go along with Gresham so we can run effective two TE sets. We could use a FB who is a threat to do somethig, anything... And Dalton needs to be more consistent and decisive.

[Whoopty Freakin' Doo!]

Originally Posted by CloeHokie

I look at Dalton as a Good QB not a Great one. He can win us games but he needs help. Only a few QBs in the league can win with not a lot of help. Dalton needs a good running game and he needs players to catch the ball reliably. Right now we have 1 WR that does that. I am not in favor of drafting one early but would not mind looking at a FA option. Also I would like to see us get the Rookie TE from GA (Name escapes me at the moment) the ball more often if Gresham keeps dropping balls and fumbling them as well.

if we grab a tight end, i hope like hell its michael williams. Best blocking te coming out and can give you a few catches. Bigger, stronger reggie kelly.

[jj22]

I can't help but to watch it every time i see it either. Pure comedy

[momadance02]

I got neg rep'd by some child for creating this thread

[TD-88]

Kinda on/off topic, but I still don't get all the hype Marvin Jones had early on and even now. I thought Sanu could be the guy for us way back in March.

I'm not saying Marvin wont end up the #2 WR. But I just don't get the hype, yet.

[momadance02]

Originally Posted by TD-88

Kinda on/off topic, but I still don't get all the hype Marvin Jones had early on and even now. I thought Sanu could be the guy for us way back in March.

I'm not saying Marvin wont end up the #2 WR. But I just don't get the hype, yet.

I think Marvin has a ton of potential, and he's flashed a few times.

He's no Sanu though, that's for sure.

[MrRager]

As with everything, there are 2 schools of thought on this. The flip side of what you're saying, is that Carson was given plenty of weapons and a solid defense in both 2005 and 2009, and produced 0 playoff wins. Granted, he was knocked out of the game in 05', but still. Carson was drafted #1 overall, and given a huge contract that rivaled some of the best QBs in the game.

When you think of the best QBs, they can do it with so-so talent. Manning makes the Colts a 12 win team on an annual basis. That team would win no more than 4 games without him. Similar things can be said about Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady. Carson Palmer never carried this team. Everyone blames 2008 on Carson's elbow. Carson was 0-4 that year. The team went 4-7-1 without him. In 2009, you could almost say the Bengals carried Carson. They went 10-6 despite Carson's mediocre season. Everyone jumped to Carson's defense that year, blaming Lavernues Coles, or the death of Chris Henry (rip). But if Carson were a top 5 QB, he would have gotten it done with the guys he had. I know Philip Rivers would have killed to have Lavernues Coles and Chad Johnson last year. He played lights out football with 4th and 5th string receivers all year.

I understand MB is a terrible owner, and yes, he has no desire to be a true winner. But honestly for Carson to blame it all on MB is a cop out. The truth is, he just isn't the superstar we all thought he could be, otherwise, he could have gotten more done with the cast he had around him. He was happy with Bratkowski's scheme apparently, so there is nowhere else for him to place blame other than his own shoulders.

The above quote is one that Shake said about Palmer. I know Dalton is young, but this is how I feel about him. He will need absolutely everything around him perfect and will not personally elevate this offense. I think he is good enough to lead us to a super bowl if we keep putting pieces around him, but the team will have to be amazing at most other positions.

[momadance02]

Originally Posted by MrRager

As with everything, there are 2 schools of thought on this. The flip side of what you're saying, is that Carson was given plenty of weapons and a solid defense in both 2005 and 2009, and produced 0 playoff wins. Granted, he was knocked out of the game in 05', but still. Carson was drafted #1 overall, and given a huge contract that rivaled some of the best QBs in the game.

When you think of the best QBs, they can do it with so-so talent. Manning makes the Colts a 12 win team on an annual basis. That team would win no more than 4 games without him. Similar things can be said about Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady. Carson Palmer never carried this team. Everyone blames 2008 on Carson's elbow. Carson was 0-4 that year. The team went 4-7-1 without him. In 2009, you could almost say the Bengals carried Carson. They went 10-6 despite Carson's mediocre season. Everyone jumped to Carson's defense that year, blaming Lavernues Coles, or the death of Chris Henry (rip). But if Carson were a top 5 QB, he would have gotten it done with the guys he had. I know Philip Rivers would have killed to have Lavernues Coles and Chad Johnson last year. He played lights out football with 4th and 5th string receivers all year.

I understand MB is a terrible owner, and yes, he has no desire to be a true winner. But honestly for Carson to blame it all on MB is a cop out. The truth is, he just isn't the superstar we all thought he could be, otherwise, he could have gotten more done with the cast he had around him. He was happy with Bratkowski's scheme apparently, so there is nowhere else for him to place blame other than his own shoulders.

The above quote is one that Shake said about Palmer. I know Dalton is young, but this is how I feel about him. He will need absolutely everything around him perfect and will not personally elevate this offense. I think he is good enough to lead us to a super bowl if we keep putting pieces around him, but the team will have to be amazing at most other positions.

Way to make a serious post in a thread that you gave me negative rep for creating

[corey513]

Originally Posted by BengalYankee

IN 2009, both the Bengals and Jets had great defenses and a solid running game.

In 2009, Sanchez outplayed Carson in the playoffs.

In 2009, the Bengals/Jets don't make the Superbowl with Dalton as QB.

In 2009, Dalton with the Jets vs Carson with the Bengals, the Bengals beat the Jets in the playoffs.

Are you kidding? Do you remember that 2009 play-off game? Carson played like jordan Palmer . If not for Benson that game wouldnt have been close.

[MrRager]

Originally Posted by momadance02

Way to make a serious post in a thread that you gave me negative rep for creating

I would like to talk football...

[bengalfan74]

Shake is right on ! And he's one of my favorite posters on here, regularly makes good sense. But like Cloe said I'd throw in a more consistent speed back as a dire need also.

[Thorobredbullies]

Talk to guys who gamble a lot they will all tell you the same thing behind the QB the Center is the most important position on offense. NFL network had the O-Line's weekly performance rated #1 two weeks in a row before Cook came back.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by MrRager

As with everything, there are 2 schools of thought on this. The flip side of what you're saying, is that Carson was given plenty of weapons and a solid defense in both 2005 and 2009, and produced 0 playoff wins. Granted, he was knocked out of the game in 05', but still. Carson was drafted #1 overall, and given a huge contract that rivaled some of the best QBs in the game.

When you think of the best QBs, they can do it with so-so talent. Manning makes the Colts a 12 win team on an annual basis. That team would win no more than 4 games without him. Similar things can be said about Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady. Carson Palmer never carried this team. Everyone blames 2008 on Carson's elbow. Carson was 0-4 that year. The team went 4-7-1 without him. In 2009, you could almost say the Bengals carried Carson. They went 10-6 despite Carson's mediocre season. Everyone jumped to Carson's defense that year, blaming Lavernues Coles, or the death of Chris Henry (rip). But if Carson were a top 5 QB, he would have gotten it done with the guys he had. I know Philip Rivers would have killed to have Lavernues Coles and Chad Johnson last year. He played lights out football with 4th and 5th string receivers all year.

I understand MB is a terrible owner, and yes, he has no desire to be a true winner. But honestly for Carson to blame it all on MB is a cop out. The truth is, he just isn't the superstar we all thought he could be, otherwise, he could have gotten more done with the cast he had around him. He was happy with Bratkowski's scheme apparently, so there is nowhere else for him to place blame other than his own shoulders.

The above quote is one that Shake said about Palmer. I know Dalton is young, but this is how I feel about him. He will need absolutely everything around him perfect and will not personally elevate this offense. I think he is good enough to lead us to a super bowl if we keep putting pieces around him, but the team will have to be amazing at most other positions.

In that thread I was arguing that Carson was not an ELITE QB. I never said he was a bum. That's why in my quote, I mention elite QBs like Rodgers, Brady, Manning and Brees. I was arguing that Palmer was never the elite QB we all thought he was in 2005.

As for Dalton, I'm starting to understand why the Falcons gave up so much to get Julio Jones, even though they already had Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez. If your QB is not elite, you'd better get him as many weapons as possible.

Btw, I totally agree with CloeHokie. BJGE is solid, but we need better than solid. Jay Gruden was recently quoted as saying he wants a "difference maker" at RB. Lets hope we take a RB in round 2 of this draft.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by momadance02

I think Marvin has a ton of potential, and he's flashed a few times.

He's no Sanu though, that's for sure.

Sanu is not Sanu . He has 154 receiving yards total all year on 16 receptions.

[devils advocate]

"Dalton = Sanchez" is ridiculous. Some people....

[yellowxdiscipline]

So basically Robinson and Sanu are better for Dalton than Cook and Jones.

[whodey21]

I'm not arguing against Dalton being a good QB, but it's important to take these stats with a grain of salt. Look who we played in those games where he had 9 TDs and 0 INTs. That is as relevant as anything else.

[jack1953]

Originally Posted by MrRager

As with everything, there are 2 schools of thought on this. The flip side of what you're saying, is that Carson was given plenty of weapons and a solid defense in both 2005 and 2009, and produced 0 playoff wins. Granted, he was knocked out of the game in 05', but still. Carson was drafted #1 overall, and given a huge contract that rivaled some of the best QBs in the game.

When you think of the best QBs, they can do it with so-so talent. Manning makes the Colts a 12 win team on an annual basis. That team would win no more than 4 games without him. Similar things can be said about Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady. Carson Palmer never carried this team. Everyone blames 2008 on Carson's elbow. Carson was 0-4 that year. The team went 4-7-1 without him. In 2009, you could almost say the Bengals carried Carson. They went 10-6 despite Carson's mediocre season. Everyone jumped to Carson's defense that year, blaming Lavernues Coles, or the death of Chris Henry (rip). But if Carson were a top 5 QB, he would have gotten it done with the guys he had. I know Philip Rivers would have killed to have Lavernues Coles and Chad Johnson last year. He played lights out football with 4th and 5th string receivers all year.

I understand MB is a terrible owner, and yes, he has no desire to be a true winner. But honestly for Carson to blame it all on MB is a cop out. The truth is, he just isn't the superstar we all thought he could be, otherwise, he could have gotten more done with the cast he had around him. He was happy with Bratkowski's scheme apparently, so there is nowhere else for him to place blame other than his own shoulders.

The above quote is one that Shake said about Palmer. I know Dalton is young, but this is how I feel about him. He will need absolutely everything around him perfect and will not personally elevate this offense. I think he is good enough to lead us to a super bowl if we keep putting pieces around him, but the team will have to be amazing at most other positions.

Kind of like the Ravens?

An excerpt from Dan Hoard's blog:

"In his first two NFL seasons, Baltimore’s Joe Flacco won three out of four playoff starts – all on the road.
Pretty incredible right?
Here are Flacco’s stats for those four games: 37-for-85, 471 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT for a passer rating of 45.8. In one of the wins, Joe was 4-for-10, 34 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT for a QB rating of 10.0.
I bring up those stats because it seems to me that the national bash-fest of Andy Dalton after his second subpar playoff game is absurd. The playoff losses in Houston were not strictly Dalton’s fault, just as Flacco clearly didn’t deserve all of the credit for Baltimore’s postseason wins in his first two seasons."

[Dgrove]

The original post was correct. The only thing I think is not entirely accurate is that sanu is better than Jones. If Jones had Robinson at center I think it would have been closer. It all started with the center.

[dcm226]

Originally Posted by momadance02

Perfectly stated.

Thank you!

[MrRager]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

In that thread I was arguing that Carson was not an ELITE QB. I never said he was a bum. That's why in my quote, I mention elite QBs like Rodgers, Brady, Manning and Brees. I was arguing that Palmer was never the elite QB we all thought he was in 2005.

As for Dalton, I'm starting to understand why the Falcons gave up so much to get Julio Jones, even though they already had Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez. If your QB is not elite, you'd better get him as many weapons as possible.

Btw, I totally agree with CloeHokie. BJGE is solid, but we need better than solid. Jay Gruden was recently quoted as saying he wants a "difference maker" at RB. Lets hope we take a RB in round 2 of this draft.

Alright. I can agree with this. I think Dalton is good and obviously could be a lot better, but I don't think he will ever hit elite status. He can easily be a high ranked second tier QB, but never on the level of Brady, Manning, Rodgers, or Brees, but somewhere in the mix of Matt Ryan, Ben (almost elite, but can't stay healthy and won because of his team which is what we would need to do), Schaub, etc.

With that said, he is going to need weapons around him to succeed in this league. I think he could win a super bowl, but he would need to depend significantly on his surroundings, unlike those elite QBs.

Your argument makes sense, but it would be very difficult to put the type of weapons around the guy to win consistently in the playoffs without sacrificing the defense. I do think Dalton is by far our best option for the short and long run though unless somehow a freak accident happens similar to the Manning situation( though that only helps in the short term and will not happen).

I am not trying to bash Dalton at all, but he has a different ceiling in my opinion compared to those other guys. I also think he had more to work with this season than people think, which is the crux of the argument. Green is a top three WR so thats a lot of help. Gresham is an above average TE (He had a bad playoff game, but so did Dalton and many think he is still good. Also, his blocking does ****, but this is purely about receiving skills). Hawkins put up 500+ yards and 4 Tds while missing time due to injuries. The oline was above average all year. BJGE shocked us all with some 20+ yard runs and had a go of it towards the end of the season. Finally, I will concede that Gruden is ify at best as an OC at this level. When added all up, every team is going to have an offensive weakness somewhere since no team is perfect. The Bengals are no different. I would say that the supporting cast around Dalton this year was pretty much right in the middle. Average.

So after all of that I think it is fair to measure Dalton with a decent amount of accuracy after this year and I think that measurement comes out to a young QB who can be in between good/great, will take time to grow, and will depend significantly on the play of others.

Conclusion.... Hmmm after writing all of that I guess I agree that Dalton is a keeper and disagree that he did not have a decent cast around him and that we cannot use this year to gauge his future.

[auggie]

After our heartbreaking loss again to the Texans, I drank about a hundred beers and started a thread about what I thought was wrong and among other things kind of threw Dalton under the bus. The other things I believed and still stand behind. My remarks that Dalton is not our future were out of frustration more than anything else and on second sober thought I regretted them (not the first drunk thing I've regretted).

I have been a Dalton supporter since he got here and his two year body of work speaks for itself statistically. He is a good young quarterback and is getting close to being very good. I do worry that he kind of disappeared at the end of the season and in the first playoff game. He missed some game changing throws in the playoff game that really hurt us.

Having said that, I still have faith in this young man, and hope we draft a game changing running back that will keep teams from teeing off on us with the blitzing. A veteran quality #2 WR through free agency would also be beneficial.

[McC]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Sanu is not Sanu . He has 154 receiving yards total all year on 16 receptions.

If you can't see what that guy's got, you weren't paying attention. When he played, he delivered. He had an effect on every game in which he played. And Dalton looked for him because Sanu gave him a second reliable receiver. Had he played the rest of the year, the offense would not have tanked so badly.

[auggie]

Originally Posted by auggie

After our heartbreaking loss again to the Texans, I drank about a hundred beers and started a thread about what I thought was wrong and among other things kind of threw Dalton under the bus. The other things I believed and still stand behind. My remarks that Dalton is not our future were out of frustration more than anything else and on second sober thought I regretted them (not the first drunk thing I've regretted).

I have been a Dalton supporter since he got here and his two year body of work speaks for itself statistically. He is a good young quarterback and is getting close to being very good. I do worry that he kind of disappeared at the end of the season and in the first playoff game. He missed some game changing throws in the playoff game that really hurt us.

Having said that, I still have faith in this young man, and hope we draft a game changing running back that will keep teams from teeing off on us with the blitzing. A veteran quality #2 WR through free agency would also be beneficial.

LMAO. After I wrote this, I notice some newbie with a total of 8 rep points named The Gingerman Can neg rep'd me for my original thread. My first neg rep and it didn't even change my total because Skippy only has 8 rep points.