To all my "GRESHAM HATERS"

[Hammerthis]

Originally Posted by bengalfan6147

Hammerthis is an idiot.

As long as I'm not what you are I consider myself fortunate.

[Shake n Blake]

Gresh is the Keith Rivers of TEs. He's soft and he's a slight bust. And he will always be defended by some. Gresh was ranked dead last by PFF. He's a terrible blocker with inconsistent hands. Athletically, he has all the talent in the world, but his concentration is sorely lacking. Did I mention he's a terrible blocker?

Btw, I love how hammerthis is bringing up the pro bowl as if it somehow validates his argument when it comes to Gresham. You know who else has made a Pro Bowl? Your boy Andy Dalton.

[TheLeonardLeap]

Originally Posted by Shake n Blake

Gresh is the Keith Rivers of TEs. He's soft and he's a slight bust. And he will always be defended by some. Gresh was ranked dead last by PFF. He's a terrible blocker with inconsistent hands. Athletically, he has all the talent in the world, but his concentration is sorely lacking. Did I mention he's a terrible blocker?

Btw, I love how hammerthis is bringing up the pro bowl as if it somehow validates his argument when it comes to Gresham. You know who else has made a Pro Bowl? Your boy Andy Dalton.

I think he's a slight bust only because of how the Bengals use him. He's a terrible blocker. Everyone know that. I don't think anyone has tried to deny it.. so why the hell do they keep trying to use him as if he's a great one? I remember him put in situations where he was trying to block Cameron Wake and Justin Tuck 1-on-1 just to name a couple guys off the top of my head. It didn't work out well. Anyone on the planet could have told you it wouldn't work out well. No surprise there.

The surprise is they KEEP putting him in that situation where he can get those holding penalties or crappy blocking. Three years and the coaches couldn't teach him how to block. Despite his drops, he's a pretty decent receiver. Sure as hell better than anyone not named AJ Green on the team, and they have no #2 WR.... So why not pull a Aaron Hernandez/Jimmy Graham and basically play him as a huge WR who very occasionally plays TE? Heck, even Tony Gonzalez isn't so great a blocker, there's a reason he racks up 96 catches even when he's 36. The guy is out there running routes! Not trying to block the best pass rusher on the opposing team 1-on-1.

So yes, while the Bengals keep trying to shove that square peg in the round hole, he'll continue to be a slight bust. Just like when they tried to make Michael Johnson a OLB, just like when they tried to make Daniel Coats a FB, just like when they tried to make Nate Clements a S, just when they tried to make Dalton hold the ball longer and make unscripted plays rather than making quick anticipatory throws, just when they tried to make Rey Maualuga an NFL-caliber LB.

It just doesn't work.
***Using players in a way to cater to their strengths is what great coaching is all about.***

[Dabo614]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

I think he's a slight bust only because of how the Bengals use him. He's a terrible blocker. Everyone know that. I don't think anyone has tried to deny it.. so why the hell do they keep trying to use him as if he's a great one? I remember him put in situations where he was trying to block Cameron Wake and Justin Tuck 1-on-1 just to name a couple guys off the top of my head. It didn't work out well. Anyone on the planet could have told you it wouldn't work out well. No surprise there.

The surprise is they KEEP putting him in that situation where he can get those holding penalties or crappy blocking. Three years and the coaches couldn't teach him how to block. Despite his drops, he's a pretty decent receiver. Sure as hell better than anyone not named AJ Green on the team, and they have no #2 WR.... So why not pull a Aaron Hernandez/Jimmy Graham and basically play him as a huge WR who very occasionally plays TE? Heck, even Tony Gonzalez isn't so great a blocker, there's a reason he racks up 96 catches even when he's 36. The guy is out there running routes! Not trying to block the best pass rusher on the opposing team 1-on-1.

So yes, while the Bengals keep trying to shove that square peg in the round hole, he'll continue to be a slight bust. Just like when they tried to make Michael Johnson a OLB, just like when they tried to make Daniel Coats a FB, just like when they tried to make Nate Clements a S, just when they tried to make Dalton hold the ball longer and make unscripted plays rather than making quick anticipatory throws, just when they tried to make Rey Maualuga an NFL-caliber LB.

It just doesn't work.
***Using players in a way to cater to their strengths is what great coaching is all about.***

pretty much agree,,,dont know where this fumble stuff is coming from,,i do know his hands could be a little better catching,,and yes he stinks at blocking,,its still beyond me why we wont run more double TE sets with a blocker in there and let gresh just run all over the place. Not saying he will be a gonalez or gronk, but def thinnk he would have better numbers if we used him properly.

Again this is **** poor coaching.

[Kaptkurt]

It's the HANDS. And I'm not talking about the holding calls.

[Shake n Blake]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

I think he's a slight bust only because of how the Bengals use him. He's a terrible blocker. Everyone know that. I don't think anyone has tried to deny it.. so why the hell do they keep trying to use him as if he's a great one? I remember him put in situations where he was trying to block Cameron Wake and Justin Tuck 1-on-1 just to name a couple guys off the top of my head. It didn't work out well. Anyone on the planet could have told you it wouldn't work out well. No surprise there.

The surprise is they KEEP putting him in that situation where he can get those holding penalties or crappy blocking. Three years and the coaches couldn't teach him how to block. Despite his drops, he's a pretty decent receiver. Sure as hell better than anyone not named AJ Green on the team, and they have no #2 WR.... So why not pull a Aaron Hernandez/Jimmy Graham and basically play him as a huge WR who very occasionally plays TE? Heck, even Tony Gonzalez isn't so great a blocker, there's a reason he racks up 96 catches even when he's 36. The guy is out there running routes! Not trying to block the best pass rusher on the opposing team 1-on-1.

So yes, while the Bengals keep trying to shove that square peg in the round hole, he'll continue to be a slight bust. Just like when they tried to make Michael Johnson a OLB, just like when they tried to make Daniel Coats a FB, just like when they tried to make Nate Clements a S, just when they tried to make Dalton hold the ball longer and make unscripted plays rather than making quick anticipatory throws, just when they tried to make Rey Maualuga an NFL-caliber LB.

It just doesn't work.
***Using players in a way to cater to their strengths is what great coaching is all about.***

Can't really disagree with you. The coaches should be held responsible. Especially Jon Hayes. I also agree that he's not a bad receiver. He just has too many drops to be relied upon like we did in 2012. A #2 WR would help take some pressure off his shoulders.

That said, if he's a terrible blocker and we couldn't coach up that aspect of his game, maybe we should let him go. Marvin Lewis has always valued TEs who can block, so why keep a TE who is terrible in that regard? This is what I hate most about being a Bengals fan. Everyone agrees that Gresh is a terrible blocker, and I'm sure the coaches see it. Yet instead of changing the system, or firing the TE coach, or trading the TE who can't block, we don't make any changes. And I guarantee Gresh will still have the same problems next year.

[Aquapod770]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

I have zero desire to talk about this thread, about Gresham in the Pro Bowl, or crow or anything of that nature.... but I do have to ask this. I have noticed lately a ton of people have been referring to Gresham as a constant fumbler, and fumble prone, and having fumble problems.

Am I missing something? He has the same amount of fumbles in 2012 as AJ Green, he has less fumbles than Dalton, BJGE, or Tate... the same amount of fumbles lost as Armon Binns. He has never had more than 1 fumble lost in an entire season.... so where does all this talk of him being fumble prone, and having fumble problems come from?

Curiosity seriously just got the best of me and since this was like the 10th time I have seen it since the Playoff game, I felt compelled to finally ask.

Gresham had quite a few of his fumbles recovered by either himself or teammates. Which is the reason he only has 1 lost for the season. With that said, I don't think his fumbling "problem" is as big as some make it out to be.

[bengalfan6147]

Originally Posted by Hammerthis

As long as I'm not what you are I consider myself fortunate.

On the topic of Gresham being a Greek god to you. Did you watch the playoff game?

[t3r3e3]

Originally Posted by Hammerthis

After reading all the cheap shots and over the top insults directed toward Gresham, let the eating of CROW begin. You know who you are.
He's still one of the best TE's in the game PERIOD! Pro bowler last year, pro bowler this year. Why? Because like all great players his good games far outweighs his bad ones.

A good, but not great TE. Only made the Pro Bowl because he replaced guys that were injured or playing in the Super Bowl. He's good, not elite. Don't get me wrong, its great Cincy has him instead of guys like Kellen Davis, but I'd rather have these guys: Jimmy Graham, Greg Olsen, Tony Gonzalez, Vernon Davis, Martellus Bennett, Jason Witten, Antonio Gates, Owen Daniels, Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronkowski,

Gresham is not consistent enough, drops too many passes, suspect blocker, etc... to be considered among the games best. He's good, better than average, but not great.

[getmused]

If Gresham doesn't major improvements next here I along with anyone following football should consider him a BUST!!

I know it ***** saying and hearing that b/c he has the 'potential', but I'm not opposed of drafting TE

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by getmused

If Gresham doesn't major improvements next here I along with anyone following football should consider him a BUST!!

I know it ***** saying and hearing that b/c he has the 'potential', but I'm not opposed of drafting TE

He's definately not a bust. A bust is someone who comes in and doesn't produce at all.

However, he's not elite and hasn't lived up to his talent level.

[bengalfan6147]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

He's definately not a bust. A bust is someone who comes in and doesn't produce at all.

However, he's not elite and hasn't lived up to his talent level.

If ur a 1st round TE......u better be putting up Jason Witten, Tony Gonzo numbers.

[Lolli]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

I have zero desire to talk about this thread, about Gresham in the Pro Bowl, or crow or anything of that nature.... but I do have to ask this. I have noticed lately a ton of people have been referring to Gresham as a constant fumbler, and fumble prone, and having fumble problems.

Am I missing something? He has the same amount of fumbles in 2012 as AJ Green, he has less fumbles than Dalton, BJGE, or Tate... the same amount of fumbles lost as Armon Binns. He has never had more than 1 fumble lost in an entire season.... so where does all this talk of him being fumble prone, and having fumble problems come from?

Curiosity seriously just got the best of me and since this was like the 10th time I have seen it since the Playoff game, I felt compelled to finally ask.

Most stats are meaningless without context. To give it context, you would need to see drops as a percentage of targets, and fumbles as a percentage of possessions, then compare that to others.

The only thing that sticks out to me about his fumbles, is that they happen during 2nd and 3rd efforts. You would think that it would be an easy coaching point.

[SHRacerX]

Originally Posted by Hammerthis

After reading all the cheap shots and over the top insults directed toward Gresham, let the eating of CROW begin. You know who you are.
He's still one of the best TE's in the game PERIOD! Pro bowler last year, pro bowler this year. Why? Because like all great players his good games far outweighs his bad ones.

He's a Pro Bowler because of his ability and because starters got injured AGAIN. He is inconsistent as hell and they let Simpson go for that....and Gresham was the #18 OVERALL pick in the draft. I expect more.

[Abspara]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

He's definately not a bust. A bust is someone who comes in and doesn't produce at all.

However, he's not elite and hasn't lived up to his talent level.

What has Gresham produced that is better than other TE's have been able to? Meaning, a 1st rd pick has high expectations especially after three years. What has Gresham done better than other TE's taken in latter rounds?

He's a bad blocker, a poor route runner, and has lapses of focus and effort. For every "OMG look at that catch" he shows three "WTF Gresham!" Moments.

After three years thats a big concern. Orsen Charles will be a better TE.

Gresham is no longer a rookie yet he still plays like one.

[bengalwdey1]

For a top tier TE he has way too many drops,period ...end of story !

[Bengals08]

Amen Gresham is a great player, and this time next year everyone will be singing his praise. Good post! Who Dey!

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by bengalfan6147

If ur a 1st round TE......u better be putting up Jason Witten, Tony Gonzo numbers.

Gonzalez is a hall of fame TE. If you judge picks based on that then every single player we drafted is a bust except Munoz.

Believe me...I'm no Gresham fan. Check the threads I start about him...by he's no bust.

Busts don't make the Pro Bowl 2 times in 3 years even as alternates.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by Bengals08

Amen Gresham is a great player, and this time next year everyone will be singing his praise. Good post! Who Dey!

He's not great. He's inconsistent receiving and a below average blocked. He sometimes has a great game. He also disappeared in a playoff game where he was game planned as the #1 option and had 7 yards. Heck 60 yards receiving from him and we might have won.

[Abspara]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Gonzalez is a hall of fame TE. If you judge picks based on that then every single player we drafted is a bust except Munoz.

Believe me...I'm no Gresham fan. Check the threads I start about him...by he's no bust.

Busts don't make the Pro Bowl 2 times in 3 years even as alternates.

In todays NFL, People like Jeff Saturday make the probowl. Remember him? he was Peytons center in Indy but this year he played for the Packers. the Packers benched him this year because he was that terrible due to old age but was still voted in.

Gresham made it off name alone. Its a popularity contest where he didnt even finish first.

Lets not give an alternate to the probowl that much credit. Houstons game is a great snapshot of his ability. In relation to Greshams draft position, he is a bust.

[THE PISTONS]

Chase Coffman just caught a pass for Atlanta!

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by Abspara

In todays NFL, People like Jeff Saturday make the probowl. Remember him? he was Peytons center in Indy but this year he played for the Packers. the Packers benched him this year because he was that terrible due to old age but was still voted in.

Gresham made it off name alone. Its a popularity contest where he didnt even finish first.

Lets not give an alternate to the probowl that much credit. Houstons game is a great snapshot of his ability. In relation to Greshams draft position, he is a bust.

I criticize him as much as anyone...but he's not a bust. Busts don't have 64 receptions for 737 yards.

We need a #2 WR so Gresham can be a 3rd option.

[bengalfan6147]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

I criticize him as much as anyone...but he's not a bust. Busts don't have 64 receptions for 737 yards.

We need a #2 WR so Gresham can be a 3rd option.

1st round picks aren't 3rd options.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by bengalfan6147

1st round picks aren't 3rd options.

Name teams that have TEs as the 1st option? Gronk isn't even in NE.

Gresham isn't great by any means...but he's no bust either. His blocking is the worst part of his game to me.

[BoomerFan]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

Chase Coffman just caught a pass for Atlanta!

Yup. Chase caught 1 pass for 16 yards. Not a world beater by any means, but then again, that is still more yards than going 2 of 7 for 7 yards. And Chase gets to try again next week.