Dalton being over coached?

[Slappy from New Haven]

Originally Posted by Mattro Bus

ever heard of a Sophomore Slump ? let's hope thats what it is and we can expect big things this year

His numbers were better this year.

Having said that it amazes me that teams that have drafted QB's in the last two weeks script the offense around the skill set of the QB.
If Andy has the fastest delivery set the offensive to highlight that skill. With a short passing game in the no huddle they could have other teams gassed by half time.

[BengalRugby]

Daltons struggles because there isn't a ground threat to keep the defense honest and the interior o-line has a habit of collapsing on him. Not to mention Gruden's lack of creativity, and frustrating habit of not sticking with what works, hurts the whole offense.

Sturdy interior o-line, via replacing Cook with Robinson or drafting the monster C from Wisconsin, and that problem is solved and Andy improves.

Drafting a young back, or aquiring MJD, McFadden, orChris Johnson in FA, gives the Bengals a great ground game, and further makes Dalton's job easier.

A new OC would call better plays attacking the D where it is wilting, like running against the Cowboys to seal the victory, or Baltimore in the first game as their D was giving away yards on the ground. Or if a pass rusher is killing the OT, running the ball over them, or rolling the QB out to the other side of the o-line, or tossing a RB screen to that side.


I am all about placing blame where it belongs and holding people accountable, but Dalton cannot be blamed here. Further, if anything, he's undercoached as he misses a lot of reads and hasn't grown much as a player. Hope the Bengals get in a better OC and QB coach soon, lest they ruin Dalton.

[D's Nuts and Bolts]

Originally Posted by Mattro Bus

ever heard of a Sophomore Slump ? let's hope thats what it is and we can expect big things this year

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Um, Dalton was clearly more efficient this year in spite of sacked more. He jumped his passer rating about 8 points. Suggesting he regressed or had a "sophomore slump" is not accurate.

Originally Posted by Stink Noodle

Jesus. Dalton is a 2nd year player. He is fine. He's done some really good things and some really bad things. Bottom line, 2 winning seasons in a row. You can't credit him for all of that, but certainly you can't blame him for losing a lot of games. Is he the best qb in the league? No. Is he the worst? Absolutely no. Give the guy a running game and a #2 receiver and he'll be fine.

Originally Posted by Joelist

Remember, the anti-Dalton gang and "concerned" posters are immune to logic and facts. Andy improves in virtually every stat category this year over last but somehow that is a slump. The lack of a usable outlet or #2 WR doesn't matter, nor does the lack of speed at RB or the bad pass protection when the lack of experience at Guard plus the bizarre Center rotation caught up to us. Not even the way to vanilla scheme with no elements in it to defuse pass rush. It's all Andy.....right...

I think "most" of us are saying the same thing. The #2, playcalling, Oline, running game all factor in, Andy's play also factors in big.

Joelist here are some stats for you,
Last six games this year 4 TD's 6 INTs. Comp 58% QBR 70.6 take out the BAL game 65 QBR!

2011 last six games. 4 TD's 4 INT's, 73 QBR. COMP 54%.

His Career Average is 84 QBR, 3-1 TD to INT ratio, COMP 61%

So what is happening at the end of seasons? Is the Oline not blocking, the running back not running, the WR not going out for passes? Playcalling? IDK.
His number two at the start of the year isn't even on the team, yet he held his career average.

We got zero control over the situation, but how can this not be one of the first things they look at in the offseason. If he just has his career average in the last six games we are getting ready for another playoff game this weekend.

Let's hope for Andy's, the team's, and the fans sake that the MB posters aren't the only ones that see this. Go Andy I'm rooting for you, that is why I said he needs to sit down with the coaches
and say WTF is going on, your the coaches help me/us fix it.

[SunsetBengal]

Originally Posted by BengalRugby

Daltons struggles because there isn't a ground threat to keep the defense honest and the interior o-line has a habit of collapsing on him. Not to mention Gruden's lack of creativity, and frustrating habit of not sticking with what works, hurts the whole offense.

Sturdy interior o-line, via replacing Cook with Robinson or drafting the monster C from Wisconsin, and that problem is solved and Andy improves.

Drafting a young back, or aquiring MJD, McFadden, orChris Johnson in FA, gives the Bengals a great ground game, and further makes Dalton's job easier.

A new OC would call better plays attacking the D where it is wilting, like running against the Cowboys to seal the victory, or Baltimore in the first game as their D was giving away yards on the ground. Or if a pass rusher is killing the OT, running the ball over them, or rolling the QB out to the other side of the o-line, or tossing a RB screen to that side.


I am all about placing blame where it belongs and holding people accountable, but Dalton cannot be blamed here. Further, if anything, he's undercoached as he misses a lot of reads and hasn't grown much as a player. Hope the Bengals get in a better OC and QB coach soon, lest they ruin Dalton.

All good and very valid points.

Many people seem to forget that offense is a complex machine, in order to have consistent success, it requires that all 11 parts be in sync and functioning properly.

[D's Nuts and Bolts]

Originally Posted by SunsetBengal

All good and very valid points.

Many people seem to forget that offense is a complex machine, in order to have consistent success, it requires that all 11 parts be in sync and functioning properly.

I agree valid points, + the coaches too need to be in sync and function properly.

[WhoDeyWalker]

Perhaps stop looking in the bargain bin for a #2 receiver?

[shaolinghost]

Dalton struggles against teams with solid defenses. This may be due to his lack of experience(and the offense as a whole), but for now it's still a topic of concern.

Miami(7th): 65.3rating
Pit(x2)(6th): 57.6rating
Baltimore(week1)(12th): 65.3rating
Denver(4th): 81.3rating
San Diego(16th): 66.9rating

That's an average rating of 67.3. Not good.

[Hammerthis]

[quote=Carl Pickens;2774990]Best thing for Dalton is to get more talent around him. It's a qb driven league now, get him more weapons![/

Even with better talent, IMHO if this team is driven by the QB in 2013 we're in trouble against good teams. Dalton needs at least 2 more years.

[THEBURG]

Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68

I think the reasons for Daltons struggles is because he's being over coached...Dalton has to become more relaxed in the pocket. I think his game was better in 2011 than 2012. It seemed like Dalton changed, and became more tense & upright during this season.

I think Marvin or Jay are telling Dalton to do things a certain way causing him to start thinking to much instead of doing what's more comfortable for himself...He needs to start doing things his way & the coaches need to stop messing with his drop back stance and throwing from..his dropback in college looked way better than what it does now because he seemed more relaxed..Andy is thinking to much about looking "professional" instead of just playing the game & just doing it. I think over coaching is messing with his natural game...Andy needs to drop back the way he wants to drop back and he needs to throw the way he wants to. He's done it all his life a certain way and you shouldn't really mess with tha a whole lot. Gruden may be being hard on Dalton pounding things into his brain on how to do things a certain way...This is the only explanation for me on why Dalton is struggling. He looks different from his rookie season, in a bad way.

Gruden should also look into TCU's offensive playbook during the time Dalton was there and watch how they run 5 WR sets with good blocking schemes, & use plays where Andy steps out of the pocket a little bit or roll out, and maybe advise his to scramble & run it if he has the opportunity.

Look at how his throwing motion and drop back form are more relaxed and he is comfortable. He makes a good deep ball throw look easy, But recently he looks very tense and uptight, and his deep ball looks like he's just winging it with no touch to it. My advice to Dalton would be..Do things the way you know how to do them. Drop back the way you want to, & throw the ball the way you want to. Practice playing the game like yourself in the offseason & do what's comfortable to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkHpQom85w

Oh boy, now he is over coached, was under coached, what will it be next?

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by momadance02

are you saying he doesn't need more reliable weapons?

Probably, but he also needs to accurately hit the ones he has. Some are tall, some are short. He needs to adjust his throw to the target better.

[Bengal4ever68]

Originally Posted by THEBURG

Oh boy, now he is over coached, was under coached, what will it be next?

I see a difference between this years Dalton and last years Dalton. He played much more relaxed & loose like last year, and didn't focus much on making mistakes..He needs to have faith in himself and his recievers to make it happen. Play with the mindset like it's college again.

[BigPapaKain]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Dalton struggles against teams with solid defenses. This may be due to his lack of experience(and the offense as a whole), but for now it's still a topic of concern.

Miami(7th): 65.3rating
Pit(x2)(6th): 57.6rating
Baltimore(week1)(12th): 65.3rating
Denver(4th): 81.3rating
San Diego(16th): 66.9rating

That's an average rating of 67.3. Not good.

Because that's all on Dalton with no credit given to the opposing defense.

Sure, makes sense.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by Derrick

Probably, but he also needs to accurately hit the ones he has. Some are tall, some are short. He needs to adjust his throw to the target better.

You mean like hitting Gresham dead in his hands and AJ as well?

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by shaolinghost

Dalton struggles against teams with solid defenses. This may be due to his lack of experience(and the offense as a whole), but for now it's still a topic of concern.

Miami(7th): 65.3rating
Pit(x2)(6th): 57.6rating
Baltimore(week1)(12th): 65.3rating
Denver(4th): 81.3rating
San Diego(16th): 66.9rating

That's an average rating of 67.3. Not good.

Thing is, his passer rating is also a function of how well the offense as a whole is performing. QB more than any other position, their numbers take a hit based on what the moving parts around them are doing or not doing well.

Dalton is solid, improve the parts of the offense that are not solid i.e. letting the ball hit the ground too often (ironically enough the Bengal pass catchers that are in the pro bowl are the most guilty in that dept.), interior Oline pass pro, WR2 position and the biggest need of all, a more dynamic RB.

[OSUfan]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

Thing is, his passer rating is also a function of how well the offense as a whole is performing. QB more than any other position, their numbers take a hit based on what the moving parts around them are doing or not doing well.

Dalton is solid, improve the parts of the offense that are not solid i.e. letting the ball hit the ground too often (ironically enough the Bengal pass catchers that are in the pro bowl are the most guilty in that dept.), interior Oline pass pro, WR2 position and the biggest need of all, a more dynamic RB.

Very accurate post!