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  #26  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

If Gruden were to leave. Hue Jackson would be our next o coordinator.. Dalton is a good enough player to produce in any offense. Dalton just needs a little more consistency. The light comes on for elite qb's in their 3rd season I truly beleive it will for Dalton as well.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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No they are not. Take a away whit and Smith what is the average time in the league of our offense?

we'll get there
I didn't argue that our personnel won't be better in a couple years wih some experience. I argued they are horrible right now.

Inexperience is part of the personnel. You can't separate it.
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Yep more experience, said it earlier
And until then, our personnel *****.
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:19 PM
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bengals Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Originally Posted by NYBengalsNY View Post
Dalton isn't the answer. Weak arm and not tall enough to see over the line. His passing options are limited due to being short which makes it easier defend and more prone to passing in tight spots which lead to tipped or incomplete passes.

Every time he went back to pass you knew it was low pct. throw/catch.
Stopping now would be advised. Glad you are not in charge of player personnel.
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

Norv Turner just took the Browns OC opening.

Looks like they will be drafting a receiver or two.
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  #31  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

He might progress better with a different QB coach though.
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:49 PM
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If its Hue Jackson I think Andy will improve
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Norv Turner just took the Browns OC opening.

Looks like they will be drafting a receiver or two.
If history is any indication, they'll draft some more bums.
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  #34  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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How far back would a new OC set the offense including Dalton?
Never seemed to bother Brady
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  #35  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:09 PM
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bengals Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Never seemed to bother Brady
And? Does it really mean something to you to compare a second year player to a multi year veteran?
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  #36  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Never seemed to bother Brady
Good for New England. While we're on the subject of Brady, know what else never bothered him? Never having a legitimate receiving threat before Gronkowski or the lack of a running game.
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  #37  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:19 PM
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bengals Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

I don't think OCs get the same excuse as players that they're only a second year coordinator. Coordinators are expected to come in and be good. That's why they normally build up NFL experience as other coaches.. assistants and such. I have never once heard someone say an OC was good with the 20th and 22nd offense in his first two years because he was only a second year coordinator....until now that is.

I don't think the offensive talent is nearly as bad as the ranking suggests. There's no way the Bengals offense is the 22nd most talented in the league. That's coaches not coaching to player's strength.
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  #38  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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I don't think OCs get the same excuse as players that they're only a second year coordinator. Coordinators are expected to come in and be good. That's why they normally build up NFL experience as other coaches.. assistants and such. I have never once heard someone say an OC was good with the 20th and 22nd offense in his first two years because he was only a second year coordinator....until now that is.

I don't think the offensive talent is nearly as bad as the ranking suggests. There's no way the Bengals offense is the 22nd most talented in the league. That's coaches not coaching to player's strength.
What developed talent do we have?
AJ Green?
We have nothing else on the field that could even be called remotely consistent.
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  #39  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:31 PM
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bengals Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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What developed talent do we have?
AJ Green?
We have nothing else on the field that could even be called remotely consistent.
AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Jermaine Gresham, Andrew Hawkins, Chris Pressley, maybe BJGE, and every position in the offensive line are all better than 22nd in the league.

I mean, for their positions, can you name me 21 players better at that position than each of those guys? I'm not saying those guys are all world beaters, probably only like Green, Whitworth, Zeitler, and Smith are the only ones in the top 10 at their position... but all those guys I listed are certainly better than 22nd.
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  #40  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Jermaine Gresham, Andrew Hawkins, Chris Pressley, maybe BJGE, and every position in the offensive line are all better than 22nd in the league.

I mean, for their positions, can you name me 21 players better at that position than each of those guys? I'm not saying those guys are all world beaters, probably only like Green, Whitworth, Zeitler, and Smith are the only ones in the top 10 at their position... but all those guys I listed are certainly better than 22nd.
Seriously? 21 players? You are okay with people like that? Come on.
Dalton is not what I would call developed.
Gresham is far from it. He is borderline starter right now.
Hawkins? Give me a break.
Pressley is a FB. He is a blocker. That is all.

I could name 21 WR I would take over Hawkins.
I could name a lot of TE I would take over Gresham.
Too few teams use a FB anymore.
I can think of a lot of RB I would take over BJGE.
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  #41  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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And? Does it really mean something to you to compare a second year player to a multi year veteran?
Believe it or not, there was a time that Brady was a 2nd year player. Just saying that New England has been through a few OC's and it didn't hurt Brady's progresion Don't know what got you all upset.
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Good for New England. While we're on the subject of Brady, know what else never bothered him? Never having a legitimate receiving threat before Gronkowski or the lack of a running game.
IDK, Randy Moss and Corey Dillon were pretty good.
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:41 PM
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bengals Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Seriously? 21 players? You are okay with people like that? Come on.
Dalton is not what I would call developed.
Gresham is far from it. He is borderline starter right now.
Hawkins? Give me a break.
Pressley is a FB. He is a blocker. That is all.

I could name 21 WR I would take over Hawkins.
I could name a lot of TE I would take over Gresham.
Too few teams use a FB anymore.
I can think of a lot of RB I would take over BJGE.
Can you name me 21 slot receivers better than Hawkins? And I would like to see that list of 21 TEs you'd like better.

My argument isn't that the Bengals offense is amazing or exceptionally talented, my argument is that Jay Gruden's 22nd rank, isn't due to a lack of talent. At the very least this team should be ranked in the teens on offense based off of the talent on it. It was an argument made to disagree with the fact that someone said "Jay Gruden should already be in the HOF for being able to get this offense to 22nd with no talent." Good coordinators get better results than the overall talent of the team, Jay Gruden is getting worse results than the overall talent of the team.

Only point that I was trying to make, not that everyone was amazing.
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Can you name me 21 slot receivers better than Hawkins? And I would like to see that list of 21 TEs you'd like better.

My argument isn't that the Bengals offense is amazing or exceptionally talented, my argument is that Jay Gruden's 22nd rank, isn't due to a lack of talent. At the very least this team should be ranked in the teens on offense based off of the talent on it. It was an argument made to disagree with the fact that someone said "Jay Gruden should already be in the HOF for being able to get this offense to 22nd with no talent." Good coordinators get better results than the overall talent of the team, Jay Gruden is getting worse results than the overall talent of the team.

Only point that I was trying to make, not that everyone was amazing.
Except it is.
Gresham is incredibly inconsistent. Way too inconsistent. Not too mention his penalties.
Why do they have to be slot? Hawkins doesnt exclusively play the slot. Few WR do.
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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if you will remember the outcry when Andy OVERTHREW aj on the bomb in the 4th quarter last week he threw the ball with his plant foot on his own 40 and the ball bounced on the back line of the endzone. Thats 70 yards with some heat.
Yes, I've heard. Kills men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

There's more to it. Scheme is the most important thing. Think about it, every great OC in the NFL gets hired as a HC, so it isn't like most NFL QBs don't have turnover in their offensive coaches. I don't think Gruden is holding Dalton back as some think. I think Dalton needed this year to continue developing a feel for the NFL game, reading defenses, building a rapport with his WRs.
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Jermaine Gresham, Andrew Hawkins, Chris Pressley, maybe BJGE, and every position in the offensive line are all better than 22nd in the league.

I mean, for their positions, can you name me 21 players better at that position than each of those guys? I'm not saying those guys are all world beaters, probably only like Green, Whitworth, Zeitler, and Smith are the only ones in the top 10 at their position... but all those guys I listed are certainly better than 22nd.
In terms of Gresham, I can name you 31-63 TEs that are better than him.
Statistically speaking anyway.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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Stopping now would be advised. Glad you are not in charge of player personnel.
Yea, he might do something stupid like expound upon the limitless potential of an undrafted, constantly cut, non-separation getting, crapfest WR named...and I'm just pulling this name out of thin air...Armon, let's say.
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2013, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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In terms of Gresham, I can name you 31-63 TEs that are better than him.
Statistically speaking anyway.
31-63 TEs with 2 straight pro bowl apperances? Doubtful. I am down on Gresh, especially after that last game...but I think a guy like Hue could do a lot more than what is currently being done with him.
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2013, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Could switching OCs so often be detrimental to Dalton's progression as QB

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IDK, Randy Moss and Corey Dillon were pretty good.
Different offenses and different eras. But if we're basing a QB's abilities off of 2 offensive weapons in 2 different offenses, the argument is still invalid as Dalton only has a receiver and has yet to have a good running back.
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