Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

[TrojanPride]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

Because the bengals offense ***** and has very little talent.

The 9era offense is loaded with pro-bowlers, including a dominant O-Line and running game, and playmakers all over he field.

They have a better RB but other than that it's pretty comparable. Other than Vernon Davis their skill players haven't been that good. Crabtree had been very inconsistent for a 1st round pick. He's looked much better since Keapernick took over. And since Kaepernick took over Vernon Davis has disappeared.

Our offensive line compares favorably. Whitworth is every bit as good as Staley. Smith is on par with Davis. Zeitler played as well as Iupati (when Iupati was a rookie), Alex Boone was an undrafted player who was on their practice squad until this year. Boiling is every bit as good as him. And Goodwin has been a journeyman type player as their center.

[THE PISTONS]

The 49ers don't have a receiver as good as AJ Green.

[The_B2S]

Originally Posted by bfine32

You didn't answer the question.


So 6 points is not "out of his league"?

No, Smith's metrics are not out of CK's league.

Now let's compare CK to Dalton. CK has a passer rating of 98.6 compared to Dalton's 87.4. There's an even bigger difference in QBR. CK has a 76.8, #3 in the NFL, and Dalton has 50.7 #22. In terms of metrics, the two aren't close.

[Bull Durham]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

Very little talent? That's patently false. And even still, Dalton leaves a ton of plays out on the field. A ton. I think back to the Eagles game when he had Hawk in the end zone wide open but he pulled the ball down. Or his terrible deep balls to open receivers.

Once again, that's what happens when when a QB is under constant pressure. They become erratic and inconsistent, their timing is off, their footwork is off.

Football 101 man.

You put him behind a great line where he is confident and knows he is going to have time, his accuracy and consistency will be much better, and he won't be gun-shy.

[The_B2S]

Originally Posted by Whoopty Freakin' Doo!

tell me how great the jags or chiefs woulve been this year with ck? They wouldve won the freakin sb right, cause ck is the secret sperm child of young and montana and it has nothing to do with the team, just the qb. Thats pretty much youre thinking, right slappy?

When did I argue that? You're not very bright. Look up the term straw man and see how it applies to you in this thread.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by hotwing

Dalton (2011 pick #35) vs Kaepernick (2011 pick #36),

Right now, u can't help but second guess pick 35.... come on Andy, close the gap in 2013

A bunch of other teams, all of them in fact, passed on Kaepernick as well. Harbaugh deserves a ton of credit there. As does the 49ers run game, which was already good before Harbaugh or Kaepernick were even there. As does the 49ers defense, which is very good.

Now, that dude can run like Dalton never will. A good defense may well hurt that kid, not "kimo style" but via just smashing his face in when he takes off on one of those runs. ijs

You don't get those weak flags when a QB is running with it, at that point, he's a RB, and any NFL RB will tell you....go ahead tough guy, do what I do, you'll break too. There's no such thing as superman.

[Bull Durham]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

The 49ers don't have a receiver as good as AJ Green.

They have a couple who are.

[THE PISTONS]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

They have a couple who are.

Who? They have no top 3 we on that roster. Crab tree is good...but he's no AJ Green.

[The_B2S]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

Once again, that's what happens when when a QB is under constant pressure. They become erratic and inconsistent, their timing is off, their footwork is off.

Football 101 man.

You put him behind a great line where he is confident and knows he is going to have time, his accuracy and consistency will be much better, and he won't be gun-shy.

Yeah. Okay. Can you answer my question? What does Dalton do better than CK?

[Bull Durham]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

They have a better RB but other than that it's pretty comparable. Other than Vernon Davis their skill players haven't been that good. Crabtree had been very inconsistent for a 1st round pick. He's looked much better since Keapernick took over. And since Kaepernick took over Vernon Davis has disappeared.

Our offensive line compares favorably. Whitworth is every bit as good as Staley. Smith is on par with Davis. Zeitler played as well as Iupati (when Iupati was a rookie), Alex Boone was an undrafted player who was on their practice squad until this year. Boiling is every bit as good as him. And Goodwin has been a journeyman type player as their center.

Again, you are insane if you think the bengals o-line is even close to as good as SF's.

[Bull Durham]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

Yeah. Okay. Can you answer my question? What does Dalton do better than CK?

Play the QB position.

[The_B2S]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

Play the QB position.

You have no data to support that.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

Can you answer my question?

Can you answer my question? Is Kaepernick a better QB than Alex Smith?

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

Yeah. Okay. Can you answer my question? What does Dalton do better than CK?

What part of CK's team is not better than the Bengals.

Oline? Dline? Receivers? RBs? LBs? COACHING????

Name one facet of that 49er team that isn't better than the Bengals.

The Dline is maybe a push and after that, every single facet of that 49er team is better than what Dalton is working with.

[HellMarine]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

You have no data to prove that.

And neither do you, quite honestly. Colin, as I said, has done phenomenal in his time starting, but it's a small sample size to compare with. Dalton's #3 in TDs thrown in first two seasons. This is essentially a pointless debate. There's not enough there to compare the two.

[TrojanPride]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

Again, you are insane if you think the bengals o-line is even close to as good as SF's.

Not at all. You are insane if you think the Bengals offensive line is a handicap. Certainly a top 10 line in the league. The nice thing for SF is that Kaepernick is dynamic with the ball in his hands if things break down. It helps them to look better then what they are.

[THE PISTONS]

Honestly he probably doesn't develop here. Different organizations. Different coaching.

[bfine32]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

What part of CK's team is not better than the Bengals.

Oline? Dline? Receivers? RBs? LBs? COACHING????

Name one facet of that 49er team that isn't better than the Bengals.

The Dline is maybe a push and after that, every single facet of that 49er team is better than what Dalton is working with.

Our kicker is better

[The_B2S]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

What part of CK's team is not better than the Bengals.

Oline? Dline? Receivers? RBs? LBs? COACHING????

Name one facet of that 49er team that isn't better than the Bengals.

The Dline is maybe a push and after that, every single facet of that 49er team is better than what Dalton is working with.

That doesn't matter. You can still evaluate the player's skillset. The Bengals are better than the Colts in terms of offensive talent. But I can say unequivocally, for instance, that Luck has a better pocket awareness and more pocket mobility than does Dalton. When you compare Dalton and CK it's clear that in all of the major categories to evaluate a QB, arm strength, accuracy, pocket awareness, pocket mobility, anticipation, speed, running ability, etc., that CK is obviously better than Dalton.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

Not at all. You are insane if you think the Bengals offensive line is a handicap. Certainly a top 10 line in the league. The nice thing for SF is that Kaepernick is dynamic with the ball in his hands if things break down. It helps them to look better then what they are.

It ain't gonna help when he gets smacked, which he will. These dudes are freaks, he's gonna take a shot, and then what?

I'm tellin ya, defenses will adjust.

[Bull Durham]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

You have no data to support that.

And you have no data to support your opinion.

In order to have data, you would have to put dalton on the 9ers teams and put Kaepernick on the bengals and see how they do.

If you were to have an actual controlled experiment and both QBs were operating under be exact same conditions, I say dalton would be better and quicker in reading defenses, quicker at making decisions, get rid of the ball quicker, throw more accurately and consistently.

[Shady]

Originally Posted by TrojanPride

SF is all about Jim Harbaugh. He took a terrible Stanford team and made them into something and found Andrew Luck. He went to SF and made a terrible Alex Smith into a real NFL QB. He drafted Kaepernick because he saw something in him, developed him and then made a change while Alex Smith was actually playing great football. You really see our coaching staff doing something like that? I don't think so.

Look I'm not a huge Dalton fan but Gruden saw something in him and believed he was the guy to run his system. Had we drafted Kaepernick without the right coach he wouldn't have been doing this with us.

But I do have to say Crabtree really hadn't done that much until Kaepernick became QB and since Kaepernick has been QB Vernon Davis has been basically non-existent except for that one long pass today. I'm really not that sure that they have such better players than us. Harbaugh just makes them play ball

Agreed. Over and over and over again. Coaching matters, and that includes developing game plans. Marvin wants to be so good, he doesn't have to plan. He wants to be able to do what he wants, not take what the other team gives you. Back in 2005, we were that good. We rolled over people. Carson goes down. We lose a few key players, and we're right back to crap city. If we had decent coaching the team we have right now would still be in the playoffs. I don't think the offense looks appreciably different under Gruden than it did under Brat. That tells me that Marvin's still calling some shots on play selection. If Gruden can be better than he's being allowed to be, we'll find out once he takes a HC job.

[Bull Durham]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

That doesn't matter. You can still evaluate the player's skillset. The Bengals are better than the Colts in terms of offensive talent. But I can say unequivocally, for instance, that Luck has a better pocket awareness and more pocket mobility than does Dalton. When you compare Dalton and CK it's clear that in all of the major categories to evaluate a QB, arm strength, accuracy, pocket awareness, pocket mobility, anticipation, speed, running ability, etc., that CK is obviously better than Dalton.

The colts have better offensive talent

[Shady]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

The colts have better offensive talent

At QB, yes. Where else?

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by The_B2S

That doesn't matter. You can still evaluate the player's skillset. The Bengals are better than the Colts in terms of offensive talent. But I can say unequivocally, for instance, that Luck has a better pocket awareness and more pocket mobility than does Dalton. When you compare Dalton and CK it's clear that in all of the major categories to evaluate a QB, arm strength, accuracy, pocket awareness, pocket mobility, anticipation, speed, running ability, etc., that CK is obviously better than Dalton.

Yes, he's got a better arm than Dalton, no doubt about it. I'm not contesting that. I am of the opinion that these QBs who wanna get all squirelly and run that sprint option....they'll get dealt with by the fastest, strongest sobs on the planet eventually, namely, NFL defensive players.

When they tuck that ball and run, they no longer have the protection of the rules that have been bent to favor them. So go ahead, make your QB a RB hybrid....I don't think it will work long term.