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  #126  
Old 01-13-2013, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by The_B2S View Post
Lol, you're not too bright. You can compare QBs from different teams and make reasonable arguments about who's better.

Only a simple mind would contend that exchanging arguments based on data, statistics, metrics and other forms of empirical evidence is pointless.
You're the one arguing your point based purely on statistics.

You haven't made a legitimate point yet besides posting his passer rating and QBR. I'm still dumbfounded that you honestly believe that the two situations are comparable, because in all honesty, if Alex Smith can succeed in an offense, anyone can.

Give me the quarterback who doesn't spike the ball on the field of play and pick up a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty.
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  #127  
Old 01-13-2013, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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You're the one arguing your point based purely on statistics.

You haven't made a legitimate point yet besides posting his passer rating and QBR. I'm still dumbfounded that you honestly believe that the two situations are comparable, because in all honesty, if Alex Smith can succeed in an offense, anyone can.

Give me the quarterback who doesn't spike the ball on the field of play and pick up a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty.
I've actually discussed more than just QBR and passer rating. Just based on observations we can tell that CK's physical attributes are definitely better than that of Dalton. In terms of arm strength, speed, strength, agility, etc., CK is the clear victor. CK has better pocket presence, as he moves around the pocket and steps up into the pocket to avoid the rush much better than Dalton. I've already discussed how CK is more accurate and that he appears to be reading defenses better judging by his lower interception percentage. So, I repeat, CK does everything on the football field better than Dalton.

The situations are very comparable. Both are NFL QBs and are thus worthy of comparisons. Aaron Rodgers is surrounded by better offensive talent than is Blaine Gabbert, but I can determine that Rodgers is an infinitely better QB than is Gabbert. But, according to your logic, we can't make that determination.

Last edited by The_B2S; 01-13-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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  #128  
Old 01-13-2013, 03:00 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by ibengals View Post
Give me the quarterback who doesn't spike the ball on the field of play and pick up a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty.


You mean the QB who a few plays later passes the ball, [not over throws], but passes the ball to his WR[Crabtree][who is far inferior to Green].

The QB that who rushed for more yards in a playoff game then Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, Steve Young, etc
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  #129  
Old 01-13-2013, 03:07 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

Give Dalton than line and that running back and this 'hot topic' becomes moot.

Kapernick inherited a team that was a game away from the Super Bowl. Dalton inherited a team that had the #4 pick in the draft.

Seriously, 90% of you would've run Peyton Manning out of town.
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  #130  
Old 01-13-2013, 05:23 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by hotwing View Post
Dalton (2011 pick #35) vs Kaepernick (2011 pick #36),

Right now, u can't help but second guess pick 35.... come on Andy, close the gap in 2013
Yes you can help but second guess it. It is just that some around here don't. Andy is goinv to be fine and this team is on the rise. Stop worrying about the Jones's.
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  #131  
Old 01-13-2013, 05:25 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by BengalYankee View Post

You mean the QB who a few plays later passes the ball, [not over throws], but passes the ball to his WR[Crabtree][who is far inferior to Green].

The QB that who rushed for more yards in a playoff game then Tarkenton, Staubach, Elway, Steve Young, etc
Yeah and the same one that got pressured and threw a blatantly terrible INT. Manning never runs the ball so does that make CK a better QB than he is?
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  #132  
Old 01-13-2013, 05:32 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Be honest with yourself in answering this question.

Who do you think most GM's would draft higher Dalton or Colin?
Then why did so many QBs get taken before CK? Would you honestly have taken Ponder in the first round? Dalton was looked at by most as a better prospect than CK whether you are willing to admit it or not.

Bottomline, you are trying to judge them as if their careers are over. 10 years from now who knows.
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  #133  
Old 01-13-2013, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by Orange and Black Attack View Post
Wait until teams get enough film on him to stop him then he will come back to earth, Dalton is the better QB.
Exactly great point!! Dalton did well and we know other teams had film to watch his behavior this year from last..!!
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  #134  
Old 01-13-2013, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

I'm starting to miss the AJ vs Julio threads. A few of the guys there actually made some legitimate points. This thread is just getting more ridiculous by the page.
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  #135  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Not really comparable at all OP. 49ers have the best offensive line in the NFL, four or five legit receiving threats, and a good run game. Dalton has AJ Green, that's it.
And, while I do think Marvin is unfairly criticized sometimes, he isn't a Harbaugh, that's for sure. Maybe he could take a page from Jim and John and bring a little more emotion and heart to the table though. Freddie Soft seems to be playing on our offense.
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  #136  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by RedBengal9 View Post
I'm starting to miss the AJ vs Julio threads. A few of the guys there actually made some legitimate points. This thread is just getting more ridiculous by the page.
Yeah, I haven't been paying much attention to Crabtree this season, but I doubt there's any way he should be mentioned in the same sentence as AJ.
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  #137  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

As of now we picked wrong
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  #138  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
Yeah, Kaepernick got an entire year and change to sit on the bench and learn/adjust. Didn't everyone in the world say he wasn't ready to play in 2011?

The Bengals needed someone to play as soon as they drafted them.. unless you wanted a 2011 filled with 16 games of Bruce's Beard, Dalton was still the right choice to make. Not to mention the little fact that Kaepernick got to inherit a team that went 13-3 the year before he started.. Dalton got to inherit a team that went 4-12 the year before he started. That's a huge difference.
Kaepernick is also supported by a better organization and coaching staff. You think he would have had that success with the Bengals?
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  #139  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

I'll admit I wanted kaepernick. He looks great, but I think Dalton is good as well. Both are solid, for different reasons. I would have a hard time imagining most nfl teams being unhappy with either one 2 years into their carrers.
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  #140  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

Give this comparison another season or two. We'll see if CK is still starting for SF and if Andy is still starting for the Bengals. My guess is CK is not and Dalton is.
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  #141  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

Dalton today, Dalton yesterday, Dalton last month, Dalton last year. I stand behind OUR quarterback 100%
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  #142  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by The_B2S View Post
I guess we can never know if Joe Montana is better than Joey Harrington by that "logic."

Dalton gets rid of the ball quicker, but that's not inherently good, especially since Dalton has been criticized by his coaches for not letting plays develop. Dalton does not read defenses better if interception percentage is any indicator. He's definitely not more accurate. The two have the same completion percentage, but CK averages almost a 1.5 yards per attempt more than Dalton, meaning that he throws the ball down the field more.

Again, I repeat, in every major way to evaluate a QB, CK is better than Dalton.
No you're not, you don't even take into consideration the strength of the Defense's that they both have played against. CK has played only one notable defense and that's the Seahawks. How well did CK do there? Finished with a 72 qbr? And how many points did the SF Offense score? 13? Hmm sounds like how well AD does when he plays a top Defense.
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  #143  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
Yeah, Kaepernick got an entire year and change to sit on the bench and learn/adjust. Didn't everyone in the world say he wasn't ready to play in 2011?

The Bengals needed someone to play as soon as they drafted them.. unless you wanted a 2011 filled with 16 games of Bruce's Beard, Dalton was still the right choice to make. Not to mention the little fact that Kaepernick got to inherit a team that went 13-3 the year before he started.. Dalton got to inherit a team that went 4-12 the year before he started. That's a huge difference.
You hit the nail on the head. The only thing Kapernick offered over Dalton was POTENTIAL upside. Gosh Kapernick was raw and would take 2-3 years to develop. As you said, everyone saw and knew this. No way the Bengals and Bengaldom would have tolerated this. A 3-13 season on top of a 4-12 season? If we had Pamer in the fold for one more year (2011), then maybe someone like Kapernick might have made sense. But again pulling the trigger is the question. We know Marvin liked Kapernick but we also know Bengaldom would have erupted with another "2 year development project" that who knows would have worked out or not. We took Gruden's favorite and the safe choice in Andy. No doubt the right choice even IF Kapernick turns out to be the better QB.

I think the better question is where will Dalton and Kapernick eventually rank in the QB class of 2011. I saw the other day that for the 2012 Year that Andy was 3rd or 4th ..... which I suspose is OK for being the 6th taken. He was behind Kapernick, Newton, and Ponder, and ahead of Locker, Gabbert, and someone else.

Someone else made the point about Kapernick being the only one on a really good team. True. Ponder does have AP though. So what does everyone think about how Kapernick would be doing on the Jags or Titans. 10-6 like Andy??

I don't necessarily agree with the poster who said the 49ers had much better SURROUNDING offensive talent than the Bengals. I could make the case that Gore, Crabtree, and Davis are about equal to BJGE, Green, and Gresham. The 49ers have a great OL though. I'd rate our OL as just Above Average and that is the only real difference in my view. (Whitworth, Zeitler, and Andre are close to Pro Bowl. Boling and Cook are Below Average.) If we get Wharton back, re-sign Andre, and improve at C, we would have one of the best OL in the game.
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  #144  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:34 AM
degolfisfun degolfisfun is offline
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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No you're not, you don't even take into consideration the strength of the Defense's that they both have played against. CK has played only one notable defense and that's the Seahawks. How well did CK do there? Finished with a 72 qbr? And how many points did the SF Offense score? 13? Hmm sounds like how well AD does when he plays a top Defense.
Don't agree. Since when are the Eagles, Ravens, and Cowboys top defenses. That is who he played in 3 of the last 4 games and he was poor in all of these games. (Maybe OK against the Cowboys.) In fact, IMO, it was the Eagles who "figured" Andy out and decided to put pressure in his face and make him make quick decisions on checkdowns and progressions. Although some would blame the OL, it wasn't their issue blocking 6 guys, it was Andy's issue getting the ball out to BJGE, Charles, or Gresham. I'd have to check the stats but I don't believe the Eagles, Ravens, or Cowboys are anywhere near Top 5 or even Top 10 defenses. So comparing how Kapernick did against Rams and Patriots is probably equal to Ravens and Eagles for Andy.
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  #145  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by Mattro Bus View Post
where do you people come up with this sh1t ? seriously ? Kaepernick has a way better organization around him and a team that went to the NFCC game last year and barely lost when he wasn't even playing. Did you also not hear they have 3 first round picks invested in the offensive line ? GTFO
we have two 1st rounders on ours
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  #146  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:48 AM
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bengals Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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As of now we picked wrong
Sorry but this is ignorant.
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  #147  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

As of right now it's impossible to say whether we picked wrong or not ... too early in both young men's careers for that. However, anybody who has watched the two play would have to admit that Kaepernick is faster, has the stronger arm and generally has better big-play ability than Dalton, regardless of what you think of the respective supporting casts around them. The concern with Keapernick, and why he fell to the 2nd round of the draft despite his obvious physical gifts, was whether he could run a pro style NFL offense. Even in the short space of time he's been quarterbacking, the evidence is strongly in favor of yes he can.

So ... in Kaep you have a guy who is big, strong, fast and has now provided some good evidence that he is capable of running a pro offense and was not a college 'system' QB as some feared. Right now, given what we know at this point, if we hopped in a time machine and went back to the 35th pick of the 2011 NFL draft and I got to make the pick, I would pick Kaepernick not Dalton.
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  #148  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

CK is a better QB right now and certainly has a better future. His knock out of Nevada was that he was raw. So the question is even if the Bengals had drafted CK over Dalton would they have been able to develop him? This is not to say Dalton was a bad pick. He was an excellent pick. But CK looks to be a superstar. I'd say he's in the top half of QB's right now and trending up. Conversly, Dalton in the bottom half and trending down. CK is bigger, stronger, more accurate and pretty much superior to Dalton in every facet of the game right now. He is seeing the field and plays with command. Also, he's won a playoff game and played at the top of his game. He shined. Dalton, no other way to put it, has choked in both his appearances. He played arguably his worst game of the season when his team needed him the most. He's also not multi dimensional. Defenses have figured out that to take away AJ deep and sit on the short stuff bc Dalton and the Bngals offense cannot beat you with intermediate throws or deep.

So in fantasy land there are those of you out there that wouldn't trade Dalton straight up for CK if given the chance? You're out of your minds.
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  #149  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

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Originally Posted by Housh View Post
As of now we picked wrong
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Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Sorry but this is ignorant.
Nope, it's just an opinion.
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  #150  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Dalton vs Kaepernick (20/20)

You cannot compare quarterbacks without comparing Offensive lines, recievers, and running backs. To try to do so is lunacy. SF's offensive line is dominate in almost every game they play in. That's the difference. Little more to see here....
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