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Old 01-12-2013, 11:28 PM
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Default Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

I think our bigger needs are Safety, LB, and RB. I dont want a RB in the first either but if there is a very good safety that zimmer wants like elam or vaccaro or a top LB thats who i would go with. It seems like a lot of mocs have us taking a DE and even a few mocks on these boards.

Why do so many people want and project a DE to us? especially if we re-sign mj
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

Because it would be a great value pick. If someone like Montgomery or Okafor is there, you have to pull the trigger on one of them instead of reaching for someone that isnt ranked that high. It doesnt necessarily have to be a DE either. If there is a top tier guard like Warmack that falls, or another position that could use depth, the Bengals would definitely go Best Player Available. They have done that the last couple of years and have been known as a great drafting organization in those years.

Another option would be to trade down and add up some extra picks.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Originally Posted by 09itsourtime View Post
I think our bigger needs are Safety, LB, and RB. I dont want a RB in the first either but if there is a very good safety that zimmer wants like elam or vaccaro or a top LB thats who i would go with. It seems like a lot of mocs have us taking a DE and even a few mocks on these boards.

Why do so many people want and project a DE to us? especially if we re-sign mj

We should let Michael Johnson walk and sign Cliff Avril..I hear we're suppose to do some big spending...I would also sign Reggie Bush..then we would have a lot of options in the draft
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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We should let Michael Johnson walk and sign Cliff Avril..I hear we're suppose to do some big spending...I would also sign Reggie Bush..then we would have a lot of options in the draft
Avril didn't have a very good year this year, nowhere near as good as MJ.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Avril didn't have a very good year this year, nowhere near as good as MJ.
I agree. MJ has a better balance of run stopping and pass rushing.

OP, I don't think DE is our TOP need, but it presents the best value in my opinion. If we're going to re-sign Johnson, we certainly won't have enough money to pour into another DE, so grabbing an instant impact player at that position will go a long way.

DE's claim top money on the free agent market, and even if Johnson is re-signed, Dunlap is a FA next year. It'd be good to have a backup.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Avril didn't have a very good year this year, nowhere near as good as MJ.
MJ didn't have as good of a year as many think MJ did.
Outperformed what I anticipated from him, but he certainly didn't look like a 10 sack guy throughout the season
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Because it would be a great value pick. If someone like Montgomery or Okafor is there, you have to pull the trigger on one of them instead of reaching for someone that isnt ranked that high. It doesnt necessarily have to be a DE either. If there is a top tier guard like Warmack that falls, or another position that could use depth, the Bengals would definitely go Best Player Available. They have done that the last couple of years and have been known as a great drafting organization in those years.

Another option would be to trade down and add up some extra picks.
Value picks many times dont fill holes. D-line is the least of our worries. I definitely wouldnt go with Guard even if the top one is there. I think i might be OK with a center but not happy.

Our biggest needs in my mind are safety, LB, and RB. Now some people say there wont be a safety that is a value pick at the 21st pick, but we dont ALWAYS need to pick someone who was slated to go higher than we pick. If the top safety is going to help us more than the 5th best DE then its ok to "reach" a little if thats what you want to call it.

The bengals dont really go BPA they go BPA who fills the holes. Dalton wasnt BPA, but we badly needed a QB. Dre wasnt necessary the BPA but we needed a corner. the only 2 i can think of is still, and thompson that were BPA that werent needs.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

Mj is a 7-10 sack guy type of guy, a solid run defender, and seems like an outstanding locker room guy. Reminds me of a healthy Geathers before he had is knee injury in 08.

Carlos- Athletic beast his sack numbers don't tell the story but he did have four forced fumbles and had 6 tackles for a loss this season.

Gillberry- nice rotation guy filled in great for Fanene and Rucker this season. Can play inside on third downs and a solid run defender on the outside.

Plus we have Moch a talented pass rusher who could be a nice edge rusher on third downs if he stays healthy.

As long as those guys are on roster and Atkins is still here then D-line is not an issue.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:03 AM
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bengals Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Originally Posted by 09itsourtime View Post
I think our bigger needs are Safety, LB, and RB. I dont want a RB in the first either but if there is a very good safety that zimmer wants like elam or vaccaro or a top LB thats who i would go with. It seems like a lot of mocs have us taking a DE and even a few mocks on these boards.

Why do so many people want and project a DE to us? especially if we re-sign mj
It is called best player available.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

It just comes down to MJ. If he leaves, they'll go DE early and likely in the 1st unless they somehow find a good FA fit. If he stays, DE doesn't make sense until mid round. Even then, if Sims is resigned then Still would play a lot of the snaps Geathers did and Giberry is in the rotation.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:05 AM
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bengals Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Originally Posted by 09itsourtime View Post
Value picks many times dont fill holes. D-line is the least of our worries. I definitely wouldnt go with Guard even if the top one is there. I think i might be OK with a center but not happy.

Our biggest needs in my mind are safety, LB, and RB. Now some people say there wont be a safety that is a value pick at the 21st pick, but we dont ALWAYS need to pick someone who was slated to go higher than we pick. If the top safety is going to help us more than the 5th best DE then its ok to "reach" a little if thats what you want to call it.

The bengals dont really go BPA they go BPA who fills the holes. Dalton wasnt BPA, but we badly needed a QB. Dre wasnt necessary the BPA but we needed a corner. the only 2 i can think of is still, and thompson that were BPA that werent needs.
Dalton not being BPA would be your opinion. It comes down to how an individual team has a player graded.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:07 AM
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bengals Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
We should let Michael Johnson walk and sign Cliff Avril..I hear we're suppose to do some big spending...I would also sign Reggie Bush..then we would have a lot of options in the draft
Could be one of the worst ideas I have ever seen on these boards and that is saying something.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Originally Posted by 09itsourtime View Post
Value picks many times dont fill holes. D-line is the least of our worries. I definitely wouldnt go with Guard even if the top one is there. I think i might be OK with a center but not happy.

Our biggest needs in my mind are safety, LB, and RB. Now some people say there wont be a safety that is a value pick at the 21st pick, but we dont ALWAYS need to pick someone who was slated to go higher than we pick. If the top safety is going to help us more than the 5th best DE then its ok to "reach" a little if thats what you want to call it.

The bengals dont really go BPA they go BPA who fills the holes. Dalton wasnt BPA, but we badly needed a QB. Dre wasnt necessary the BPA but we needed a corner. the only 2 i can think of is still, and thompson that were BPA that werent needs.
I agree with you that the team takes BPA for their needs, Although the team chose mostly cruddy FAs last year, they did do a good job of picking positions that were needs so they could open up their draft. Then they lucked out in the draft and filled huge positions of need anyway.

The part were we differ, if there is a person who is available who would be dominant in their position (Chance Warmack) you take them. Then start teaching Boling how to play Center.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:37 AM
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bengals Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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I agree with you that the team takes BPA for their needs, Although the team chose mostly cruddy FAs last year, they did do a good job of picking positions that were needs so they could open up their draft. Then they lucked out in the draft and filled huge positions of need anyway.

The part were we differ, if there is a person who is available who would be dominant in their position (Chance Warmack) you take them. Then start teaching Boling how to play Center.
Curious as to why when other teams have good drafts these boards fall all over themselves talking about it but when our team has good drafts it is because they lucked out?
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

Most of these picks depend on what they plan on doing in FA.

They need to get two RBs in my opinion. If it's one in FA and one in the Draft then so be it.

I'd like to see them pick up someone like Ivory as our COP back and draft a bruiser or an all-purpose back in the middle rounds.

This team really did itself a disservice this season by not drafting a RB where the Still and Thompson picks were. They were banking way to much on Scott
We need someone who can stretch the edges and when he gets in open field can go all the way.

Also, I guess everyone thinks Dalton is main the reason for sacks and anemic offense play... ??

I must be in the minority who thinks our O-line needs an upgrade and better depth(for injuries sake). I'd draft O-line before picking D line.

There's a reason why our D wasn't as effective against the Texans. Their O-line has several Pro-bowlers on it.

Save D line for next year's draft if needed since we picked two in the last draft. We have much more need at LB and CB/Safety if were going to go with D picks.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Curious as to why when other teams have good drafts these boards fall all over themselves talking about it but when our team has good drafts it is because they lucked out?
What is that cheesy saying; Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. They have been drafting better over the last handful of years. But to have players of value that meet your needs hit at most of your picks does have an element of luck to it.

The funny thing is, we might realize just how good the draft was for another year or two.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

IMO Geathers must go and resign all our other DEs to contract extensions,as for drafting one early in the draft ,not needed as badly as a RB,LB, and CB.
Oh yeah and OL help.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Originally Posted by 09itsourtime View Post
I think our bigger needs are Safety, LB, and RB. I dont want a RB in the first either but if there is a very good safety that zimmer wants like elam or vaccaro or a top LB thats who i would go with. It seems like a lot of mocs have us taking a DE and even a few mocks on these boards.

Why do so many people want and project a DE to us? especially if we re-sign mj
I believe with our first 3 picks we take a DE, LB and RB and not in any particular order. We have a lot of Safetys on our roster and we still need to see what Iloka can do. He never got much of a chance as a rookie. With OTA's and another full training camp he could be the guy. He played some CB for Boise so he has some coverage skills . Time will tell i guess. Also you can never have to many DE.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Originally Posted by Stewee28 View Post
Because it would be a great value pick. If someone like Montgomery or Okafor is there, you have to pull the trigger on one of them instead of reaching for someone that isnt ranked that high. It doesnt necessarily have to be a DE either. If there is a top tier guard like Warmack that falls, or another position that could use depth, the Bengals would definitely go Best Player Available. They have done that the last couple of years and have been known as a great drafting organization in those years.

Another option would be to trade down and add up some extra picks.
How is a guy that got 7 sacks last year on a defense loaded with talent a great value pick? Montgomery would not be a great value at that spot.

Okafor is the 5th or 6th rated pass rusher.

There will be a bunch of guys that are better "value picks" at #21 than a DE unless one of the top 2 falls that far.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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I believe with our first 3 picks we take a DE, LB and RB and not in any particular order. We have a lot of Safetys on our roster and we still need to see what Iloka can do. He never got much of a chance as a rookie. With OTA's and another full training camp he could be the guy. He played some CB for Boise so he has some coverage skills . Time will tell i guess. Also you can never have to many DE.
This line of thinking with the safety position is the same line of thinking that got us the following:

Jerome Simpson as our future star WR while we ignored the position
Nate Livings as our LG
Taylor Mays as our SS

You can't "wait to see what someone can do." You have to go into camp with guys that can start at an NFL level. If another guy can beat them out, great, but you can't sit around and evaluate guys while ignoring the hole.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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How is a guy that got 7 sacks last year on a defense loaded with talent a great value pick? Montgomery would not be a great value at that spot.

Okafor is the 5th or 6th rated pass rusher.

There will be a bunch of guys that are better "value picks" at #21 than a DE unless one of the top 2 falls that far.
It doesn't matter if Okafor is the 5th rated pass rusher or the 8th, he's still a top 25 prospect and higher than any Safety or LB or RB where we'll be picking
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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It doesn't matter if Okafor is the 5th rated pass rusher or the 8th, he's still a top 25 prospect and higher than any Safety or LB or RB where we'll be picking
Depends on whose list you are reading.

ESPN has Vacarro at 16, Okafor not in the top 32
Kiper has Vacarro at 20, Okafor at 25

So, yeah, he is rated higher by some sources (and I would guess most sources).

I would agree with you IF we had a need at DE, we don't. We have 2 young guys that were better prospects coming out than Okafor.

We also have a HUGE need at safety. I don't see why you would still take a backup/rotational player than a guy that can step in and be a starter and make a difference immediately at a position of major weakness.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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Depends on whose list you are reading.

ESPN has Vacarro at 16, Okafor not in the top 32
Kiper has Vacarro at 20, Okafor at 25

So, yeah, he is rated higher by some sources (and I would guess most sources).

I would agree with you IF we had a need at DE, we don't. We have 2 young guys that were better prospects coming out than Okafor.

We also have a HUGE need at safety. I don't see why you would still take a backup/rotational player than a guy that can step in and be a starter and make a difference immediately at a position of major weakness.


What kind of prospects MJ and Dunlap was coming out has nothing to do with it. MJ may not be back, gilberry and geathers may not be back. Dunlap is NOT consistent contrary to what you might think. So drafting a DE is a definite NEED when you're not sure whose gonna be back and whose not.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

IF Vaccaro is still there, you have to take him. Take a G (Warford) and a LB/DE with the other 2nd. RB's will be there in the 3rd (Zach Stacy), as will other safeties (Rambo) if they go a different direction in the 1st.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Cant get behind a DE in the first....yet

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IF Vaccaro is still there, you have to take him. Take a G (Warford) and a LB/DE with the other 2nd. RB's will be there in the 3rd (Zach Stacy), as will other safeties (Rambo) if they go a different direction in the 1st.

I have a funny feeling we'll either draft Ball or Gillislee
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