Who would you rather have as OC, Gruden or Jackson?

[Ryan Mc]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

Dude, there are about 30 teams with better offensive talent. I think you're a little delusional about the talent level on this offense. Our personnel was really poor this season.

Hey, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. If you think we had the worst or second worst offensive talent in the entire league this year then I guess that's what you think. But, people thinking our talent level was 31st/32nd best in the league probably shouldn't be throwing around labels like "delusional". (although I take comfort in the fact that us delusional folk are currently 76% of the vote ... good to have company in my delusions!)

[OMAHABENGAL54]

Originally Posted by Ryan Mc

Hey, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. If you think we had the worst or second worst offensive talent in the entire league this year then I guess that's what you think. But, people thinking our talent level was 31st/32nd best in the league probably shouldn't be throwing around labels like "delusional". (although I take comfort in the fact that us delusional folk are currently 76% of the vote ... good to have company in my delusions!)

NO doubt. We have a better offensive line up of easily 1/3 of the league

[Shady]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

We didn't. The only time the running game worked was when the other team wasn't expecting it. Whenever we tried to stick with it, it was like running into a brick wall.

Not true. Most of BJGE's big runs came on first down.

[Shady]

I voted for Hue for two reasons.

1.) He's a better football coach. Look at what Oakland was doing before Campbell got hurt and they brought in CP9. Can't blame them for wanting Carson. Look at what that same team did this year without Hue at the helm. Raiders were stupid for firing him.

2.) He'll have the clout to put P. Alexander in his place and stop putting his "projects" in games when there are better players sitting on the bench.

Make that 3 reasons.

3.) He might eventually be the guy to replace Marvin "Get a Clue" Lewis.

[THE PISTONS]

How about Mike Martz? Add a #2 and bring him in.

[THE PISTONS]

My problem with Gruden is we supposedly run a West Coast offense...but I don't see it.

[gardner30]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

He can identify it all he wants
It is up to Mike Brown to sign the checks in the end.

We did run the screen. Many times. Especially to AJ and Hawkins.
We didn't run the RB screen because our RB are slow.

MB has brought in a WR late in TC before (TO).

MB also shelled out 2+mil for a bum Center (Faine) late in TC/Preseason.

I bet Gruden didn't ask, he just mis-evaluated Tate and Binns.

They were burning guys like Chris Lewis-Harris and Tony Dye in TC.

BJGE/Peerman/Leonard ran faster 40s than Arian Foster.

No excuse.

[Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by bonesaw

The Jay hating is still baffling me. We finished right where we should have on offense. Jay can't make blocks or make Gresham and crew catch. He can't make Dalton not miss throws. Our problems on offense are player execution problems, not scheme or design problems. Time for the players to put their big boy pants on.

Can't say as I agree with that Bonesaw. How many times do you see our pass catcher's running free? Very rarely do you see much separation from our receiving core (WR, TE, RB's). I don't think a guy like Baby Hawk lacks speed and agility to separate. It's scheme versus matchups. Don't seem like we do a very good job at either.

What Ray Rice out of the backfield on passing downs. His first cut always creates space. I don't see this with Baby Hawk. You can't tell me Baby Hawk is not as shifty as Ray Rice. It's got to be design/scheme/matchups.

[tlotharw]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

Dude, there are about 30 teams with better offensive talent. I think you're a little delusional about the talent level on this offense. Our personnel was really poor this season.

What was the one team in the league with worse offensive talent than the Bengals?

[McC]

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

How about Mike Martz? Add a #2 and bring him in.

There must be a reason Martz has been fired from every job he's ever had in the league. Isn't his offense known for getting his QB's beat up?

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by Daddy-O

Can't say as I agree with that Bonesaw. How many times do you see our pass catcher's running free? Very rarely do you see much separation from our receiving core (WR, TE, RB's). I don't think a guy like Baby Hawk lacks speed and agility to separate. It's scheme versus matchups. Don't seem like we do a very good job at either.

What Ray Rice out of the backfield on passing downs. His first cut always creates space. I don't see this with Baby Hawk. You can't tell me Baby Hawk is not as shifty as Ray Rice. It's got to be design/scheme/matchups.

Unless Hue Jackson gets hired by another team soon, he will be our next OC.Jay Gruden will be the next head coach at the JAGS.He has alot of support down there, and part of that organization has previous experience with him and he has connections in orlanda. I feel like he will be selected for that HEADCOACHING POSITION.Andy will get better under Hue if given the chance.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by the pistons

my problem with gruden is we supposedly run a west coast offense...but i don't see it.

amen to that,you are so right the pistons.where has this famous wco been???

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by Ryan Mc

But, it's more than just the Texans game though ... it's not just a kneejerk reaction to that one game. Over the final 6 games we scored only 7 offensive TDs, and even then 6 of those came after special teams or defense set up the offense with field position inside the opponent's half of the field. In the final six games we literally only had one offensive possession (the opening drive against Dallas) where we took possession of the ball in our own half of the field and drove it down into the opponent's endzone. That's fairly amazing futility for an offense.

you are right, jay gruden started out strong,being new in the nfl and all that helped him, but good coaching staffs caught up with him and in the end, say last 6 games, his talents at offense failed him, as he could not or did not make the necessary adjustments to get it done.in other words, he was outcoached and players not playing verywell didn't help.I still feel JAY IS a super good oc, but he is still learning. he will get better, but probably not here. i think he is on his way to the jacksonville job.

[Abspara]

Originally Posted by bonesaw

The Jay hating is still baffling me. We finished right where we should have on offense. Jay can't make blocks or make Gresham and crew catch. He can't make Dalton not miss throws. Our problems on offense are player execution problems, not scheme or design problems. Time for the players to put their big boy pants on.

Wow, finishing 22nd in offensive production is "right where we should have?"

Talk about low expectations....

[finso]

Just curious how anyone could respect a man who mortgaged his teams future for a WASHED UP QB.
1. The guy panics under pressure and is not capable of making sane decisions.
2. He is clueless at judging talent.
3. The guy is oblivious to what is going on around him.

[Mike M (the other one)]

We just don't have the RB to prevent teams from trying to take AJ Green out of the game and make AD beat us with the rest of the talent.

[bengalwdey1]

Jay ,came in overated by many,he is NOT the answer for OC here.
Either hue or a fresh face would produce more points.

[IllWill]

Originally Posted by GodFather07

So you have one of two choices with this, who would you pick and why?

1) Jay stays for another year as OC.

2) Jay is hired as HC somewhere and the Bengals promote from within giving Hue Jackson the new position of OC.

Either choice would be acceptable, I like both for different reasons. So I guess I vote option 1 until 2 becomes the only option. I don't want Jay gone and don't blame him for the playoff loss. I don't think the problem is offensive philosophy or scheme, but the lack of a veteran offense. Back to back playoffs gives us high expectations for success now. It also makes it easy to forget that most of the starting offense hasn't played 3 seasons yet. Give either guy some 4th and 5th year core guys, they'll both be great. But moving forward, I'd very much like Andy to stay in Jay's system another couple of years. I'd rather see a new HC than OC.

[McC]

The most damning thing about Jay was his inability to come up with a way to stop what the Eagles started--all that pressure up the middle. He really had no solution. I don't like that in a coordinator. I don't care what year they're in. He has to bring that with him when he gets the job.

Talk all you want about about what he had or didn't have. The good ones find a way to use what they have. To me, he didn't do that. That was a real disappointment to me. He never found a way to force defense out of what they were all doing. They got his number and kept it.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by Abspara

Jay regressed in year two from 20th to 22nd offense in NFL. He's not improving, he's getting worse.i dont know about you but im not exactly confident he'll improve next year.

This is an interesting debate. I hope Gruden gets a HC job. Then we don't have to argure his merits, or not. Is Hue the answer? I have no idea. He didn't look too good in the role of HC - for the Raiders that is.

Personally I want an OC who is very creative, unafraid, and demands excellence. With those traits, I don't really care who gets the job. I am sure it won't be Marvin Lewis though..

[McC]

Originally Posted by Derrick

This is an interesting debate. I hope Gruden gets a HC job. Then we don't have to argure his merits, or not. Is Hue the answer? I have no idea. He didn't look too good in the role of HC - for the Raiders that is.

Personally I want an OC who is very creative, unafraid, and demands excellence. With those traits, I don't really care who gets the job. I am sure it won't be Marvin Lewis though..

When you think about it, Gruden came in talking about being all dynamic but the longer he's been here, the more he's started to morph into Brat. How is that a coincidence? I still say there's a very good chance Marvin might be guilty of micro-managing the offense.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by Ryan Mc

We were 22nd in offense and I don't think there are 21 teams in the NFL with better offensive talent than us. In the final 6 games of the season we scored only 7 offensive TDs, and even SIX of those came after defense or special teams set us up with field position in the opponents half of the season. We were a pretty bad offensive team last year, especially down the stretch. Personally, I don't think our offensive talent was weak enough to excuse this performance (although your childish sarcasm was very persuasive)

I think Gruden panicked. Not a trait I want in an OC or HC.

[IllWill]

Originally Posted by finso

Just curious how anyone could respect a man who mortgaged his teams future for a WASHED UP QB.
1. The guy panics under pressure and is not capable of making sane decisions.
2. He is clueless at judging talent.
3. The guy is oblivious to what is going on around him.

Which washed up QB ya talkin about, the one that got him to 4-2, or the one that got him to 8-8? Seriously, the worst thing Hue did was give up a 3rd rounder for Terelle Pryor. ( Well that, and lead the league in penalties.) Oakland's front office (ya know, the one with a history of making poor decisions) handled the trade and Hue found himself on the wrong end of a regime change when Davis died. I think that going 8-8 with a roster without any depth is very respectable. Hue definitely went down swinging.

[Lolli]

Maybe I misunderstood the question...was there a question?

[finso]

Originally Posted by IllWill

Which washed up QB ya talkin about, the one that got him to 4-2, or the one that got him to 8-8? Seriously, the worst thing Hue did was give up a 3rd rounder for Terelle Pryor. ( Well that, and lead the league in penalties.) Oakland's front office (ya know, the one with a history of making poor decisions) handled the trade and Hue found himself on the wrong end of a regime change when Davis died. I think that going 8-8 with a roster without any depth is very respectable. Hue definitely went down swinging.

The one that will probably be on the street when the Bengals make their 1st of 2 second round selections this April.
The one that was all on Hue before he knew he was out the door.