Who would you rather have as OC, Gruden or Jackson?

[BengalB]

The playoff game sealed the deal for me. As for Gruden, I am NOT a fan. I was ECSTATIC when we got rid of Brat, but Gruden is proving to be just more of the same.

[IllWill]

Originally Posted by finso

The one that will probably be on the street when the Bengals make their 1st of 2 second round selections this April.
The one that was all on Hue before he knew he was out the door.

Considering the answer is either Jason Campbell or Carson Palmer, I don't think you've answered my question.

[Since82]

Originally Posted by finso

The one that will probably be on the street when the Bengals make their 1st of 2 second round selections this April.
The one that was all on Hue before he knew he was out the door.

David Carr, Matt Hasselback, Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch, and Matt Leinhart are still drawing paychecks from NFL teams. Palmer will be on a roster next season if he wants to keep playing. It may not be at the contract he is getting now, but there will be teams that could use him.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by Abspara

Jay regressed in year two from 20th to 22nd offense in NFL. He's not improving, he's getting worse.i dont know about you but im not exactly confident he'll improve next year.

Well he did downgrade from Jerome Simpson to Binns/Tate.

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

We didn't. The only time the running game worked was when the other team wasn't expecting it. Whenever we tried to stick with it, it was like running into a brick wall.

Dallas and Houston

Originally Posted by THE PISTONS

How about Mike Martz? Add a #2 and bring him in.

He gets QBs killed.

[bengalfan74]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Jay gets boned over with no talent on the offense and everyone wants his head.
What a joke.

For what he has worked with, Jay has done an incredible job.
Very few offenses have less to work with overall than we do.
This isn't even a debate if Sanu stays healthy or starts over the joke experiment of Binns/Tate/Hawkins as #2 wideouts

No, our coaches don't know how to utilize what we have !

Every year there's a dozen or so players that come out of nowhere to make a splash in the NFL. Ever notice how they're mostly from the same top level teams ? With excellent coaches. We have tenured coaches who are still here because the owners wife likes his wife or some such nonsense.

Oh there's the Megatron's and AJ's out there, but those guy's succeed mostly on god given talent and in spite of their coaches.

[Millz]

Hue. I have to believe he would use AJ in the first half of a playoff game, not to mention he cant be worse than Jay. So yes, Hue, because imo I think he could improve this offense with the tools he has more-so than what Jay did. Plus if they add a good receiver to the mix, a good center, and a couple of better running backs to go with BJGE, then I would be pretty stoked about going into 2013 knowing Hue is the OC.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Millz

Hue. I have to believe he would use AJ in the first half of a playoff game, not to mention he cant be worse than Jay. So yes, Hue, because imo I think he could improve this offense with the tools he has more-so than what Jay did. Plus if they add a good receiver to the mix, a good center, and a couple of better running backs to go with BJGE, then I would be pretty stoked about going into 2013 knowing Hue is the OC.

All in all, I prefer Hue. But if those pieces you list are added, Jay would probably be better too. That job is all about finding ways to score, obviously, and Jay and his offense, players and scheme, failed down the stretch.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Hue for the simple fact that he wont let Anderson have the last say on what kind of back we draft.

[Joelist]

I do wonder a bit if any new OC would really make a different. After all we went from Brat to Gruden and the offense is still super vanilla and runs at far too slow a pace. How do we know this torpid pace is not coming from Marvin? He may also not like screens, traps draws and the like.

I just wonder as it is a bit weird that we do nothing on offense to burn aggressive pass rushes.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Joelist

I do wonder a bit if any new OC would really make a different. After all we went from Brat to Gruden and the offense is still super vanilla and runs at far too slow a pace. How do we know this torpid pace is not coming from Marvin? He may also not like screens, traps draws and the like.

I just wonder as it is a bit weird that we do nothing on offense to burn aggressive pass rushes.

The similarities are striking. The worst similarity--the league has us figured out.

[Samhain]

I have nothing against Jay other that his recent offensive slump at a critical time. I'm still in the "it's a young team" camp right now. I started to type this out with the purpose of supporting Hue as OC.In the end, I'd like to see what Jay could do with another year and some player upgrades at wr, rb, and the interior line. I honestly think our issues have more to do with Dalton.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Originally Posted by Abspara

Jay regressed in year two from 20th to 22nd offense in NFL. He's not improving, he's getting worse.i dont know about you but im not exactly confident he'll improve next year.

Say what you want about him, but we had Simpson in 2011.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by Truck_1_0_1_

Say what you want about him, but we had Simpson in 2011.

Simpson > Binns/Tate

[rotobeast]

Originally Posted by Joelist

I do wonder a bit if any new OC would really make a different. After all we went from Brat to Gruden and the offense is still super vanilla and runs at far too slow a pace. How do we know this torpid pace is not coming from Marvin? He may also not like screens, traps draws and the like.

I just wonder as it is a bit weird that we do nothing on offense to burn aggressive pass rushes.

Right there with you.
I think Marvin stiffled Jay.
I'm thinking Hue would laugh at Marvin, if he tried to do it to him.

[TheLeonardLeap]

After the first Steelers game where AJ went the entire first half without a ball thrown at him and the Bengals lost to a pathetically hurt Steelers team, he said "Self, that's not very smart."............ so then Jay gameplanned not throwing a ball to AJ Green for the first 35 minutes of a playoff game.

'Nuff said.

[Ryan Mc]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

After the first Steelers game where AJ went the entire first half without a ball thrown at him and the Bengals lost to a pathetically hurt Steelers team, he said "Self, that's not very smart."............ so then Jay gameplanned not throwing a ball to AJ Green for the first 35 minutes of a playoff game.

'Nuff said.

That Steelers game - where AJ only had 1 catch for 8 yards - was really scary. NFL Rewind has an option where you can watch the wide-angle aerial "coaches'" camera of games, and I watched that Steelers game on that camera. It was striking how often AJ was in single coverage and open in that game ... it's a complete myth that LeBeau doubled AJ all night and forced us to throw to other people. Gruden took AJ out of that game, not LeBeau.

This whole issue just once again shows the difference between how our team is run and the more regular, serious contenders in the league. Baltimore fired their OC during this season when their offense was slumping. This is a guy who's been their OC through four straight playoff seasons, including helping Flacco develop into a QB who put up 100+ passer ratings in two playoff games last year. But, the offense was slumping and holding them back, so he's out. Baltimore have turned their season around since then (over 400 yards of offense in 3 of the 5 games since making the change) and are going to play in a championship game now. I just fear we'll never be really consistent serious contenders as a team because we shy away from the tough decisions like that and are slow to realize when change is needed.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by OMAHABENGAL54

Hue... -6 passing in 1st half was a joke in Houston. Wouldn't mind another year but last half of season offensively was a joke. My only issue with hue is dalton might be limited in a more vertical passing game

To be fair a few CAUGHT passes changes that stat line guys were open and didnt catch the ball.

[OMAHABENGAL54]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

To be fair a few CAUGHT passes changes that stat line guys were open and didnt catch the ball.

Agree100% but really a negative for the entire 1st half is inexcusable, well unless we were racking up big in the running game which IMO we could have been

Also the third down conversion % or lack there of was dismal most if the season

I know u pay the players to play but c'mon, I think we have a more talented group then that

And I just believe Hue has tons more experience, knowledge, & wherewithal to produce, I mean look what he did with Chad, Housh, Slim and others

And not trying to change gears but has it been mentioned that coming into the year that our secondary was a lil shaky and possible the Achilles heel of the defense. Hue helped out with that to right? I just think the guys a winner

Not I guess really so much I think Jay is horrible I just think Hue is golden

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

To be fair a few CAUGHT passes changes that stat line guys were open and didnt catch the ball.

Hands down for me is Hue Jackson, although i feel either one will get the job done.Pluses for Jay Gruden is players already know his style and seem to respond to his coaching. Our qb is very comfortable with him.I feel he has a very bright mind and is only to get better.On Hues strengths, he is very good at motivating receivers and is more of a risk taker, which you need in games to win.Big risks, big gains.Seems to jell with everyone real well to accomplish the task.I believe he is closer to the hip with marvin than jay, meaning he will get more of his say in the battle.Has already been a head coach and probably sees the big picture a little better than jay. I want either one, we will be okay with either one.Who knows, maybe a change in the OC will be a good thing for all.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by GodFather07

So you have one of two choices with this, who would you pick and why?

1) Jay stays for another year as OC.

2) Jay is hired as HC somewhere and the Bengals promote from within giving Hue Jackson the new position of OC.

I'ld like to keep Jay Gruden into a 3rd year with Andy Dalton and AJ Green.....and I haven't seen Jay Gruden do anything in two years that deserves a head coaching job other than being Jon Grudens brother.....

but if Jay Gruden does get a head coaching job, certainly moving Hue Jackson up to offensive coordinator seems like the best move for young Dalton and Green. Hue is alreay a coach here plus he has head coaching experience.

in the end, my concern is to not throw an entire new playbook at 3rd year Dalton and Green combination.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by bengalfan74

no, our coaches don't know how to utilize what we have !

Every year there's a dozen or so players that come out of nowhere to make a splash in the nfl. Ever notice how they're mostly from the same top level teams ? With excellent coaches. We have tenured coaches who are still here because the owners wife likes his wife or some such nonsense.

Oh there's the megatron's and aj's out there, but those guy's succeed mostly on god given talent and in spite of their coaches.

amen to that, where can you go find a job, get paid millions and fail at the job for 10 years, shake down the nati with community events to raise millions for the poor, mostly folks that will not help themselves, which is what a community organizer is and still keep your job forever???now thats security.only here in our town does this stuff happen.look around, eight coaches lost their jobs this year, some after one year.its wild for sure.can you blame assistant coahces for wanting out???

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by kevin

I'ld like to keep Jay Gruden into a 3rd year with Andy Dalton and AJ Green.....and I haven't seen Jay Gruden do anything in two years that deserves a head coaching job other than being Jon Grudens brother.....

but if Jay Gruden does get a head coaching job, certainly moving Hue Jackson up to offensive coordinator seems like the best move for young Dalton and Green. Hue is alreay a coach here plus he has head coaching experience.

in the end, my concern is to not throw an entire new playbook at 3rd year Dalton and Green combination.

After this week, all of us will know who is still left standing as coaches here. My guess is we probably will lose Hue and Jay.Could honestly happen.alot of openings out there, seems like if you can fog a mirror,they will hire you.Finshing 10-6 this year gets you alot of interviews.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by fortyyearfan

After this week, all of us will know who is still left standing as coaches here. My guess is we probably will lose Hue and Jay.Could honestly happen.alot of openings out there, seems like if you can fog a mirror,they will hire you.Finshing 10-6 this year gets you alot of interviews.

Its possible hue gets Grabbed as an OC before Gruden leaves.... Its possible neither leave..

But if we lose both there are some opitions out there... Pat shurmer Ken Weisenhunt. etc.

[GodFather07]

My only concern with Hue is adapting a playbook with the talent he has instead of forcing one that doesn't work. If he pushed the long vertical pass it wouldn't work because Andy doesn't have a strong accurate arm.

It seems to be a reoccuring theme with our coaches not playing to the players strengths. Take a page out of Bill Belichick coaching style and adjust to what you have. He does it better than anyone else.

[fortyyearfan]

Originally Posted by Samhain

I have nothing against Jay other that his recent offensive slump at a critical time. I'm still in the "it's a young team" camp right now. I started to type this out with the purpose of supporting Hue as OC.In the end, I'd like to see what Jay could do with another year and some player upgrades at wr, rb, and the interior line. I honestly think our issues have more to do with Dalton.

Remember, Jay picked ANDY DALTON,hands down, this was his boy. so if he stays, he has to make this right.CAN HE? Sure he can!!!.Both of them need to get in a room, look each other in the eye and agree to get super better at EVERYTHING.Unless , of course our scouting staff along with marvin and jay are very poor pickers of talent that was needed here.If they missed on DALTON, it will for sure show this year.With another very difficult schedule in 2013, its now time to jell,mature and show up big time on sundays.