Cincinnati Bengals

Go Back   Cincinnati Bengals Message Boards - Forums > Cincinnati Bengals Football Discussion > Jungle Noise

Jungle Noise Bengals Football Discussion for BENGALS FANS ONLY. Visiting team fans please keep your postings in one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:41 PM
OSUfan's Avatar
OSUfan OSUfan is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vandalia, ohio
Posts: 22,227
Rep Points: 24270
bengals Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham69Rock View Post
You + I have had our little wars in the past........JUSTIFY
Prefer not to give away picks for over hyped players that have under produced. Not really that hard to justify. He is constantly injured and has not produced on anything close to the level he was hyped at. The shelf life of a NFL RB is short as it is so I would prefer not to give up picks for one that is already beat up.

Would much rather take my chances on Lacy, Bernard, Randle, Gillislee, Michaels, etc.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:00 AM
M.W.'s Avatar
M.W. M.W. is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 4,537
Rep Points: 5203
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUfan View Post
Prefer not to give away picks for over hyped players that have under produced. Not really that hard to justify. He is constantly injured and has not produced on anything close to the level he was hyped at. The shelf life of a NFL RB is short as it is so I would prefer not to give up picks for one that is already beat up.

Would much rather take my chances on Lacy, Bernard, Randle, Gillislee, Michaels, etc.
I agree with your logic. I believe RBs are best to be grabbed in the draft.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:36 AM
OneManBand's Avatar
OneManBand OneManBand is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sharonville, OH
Posts: 1,089
Rep Points: 1165
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
What? Wanting him for a 7th rounder and half his salary is the equivalent of wanting a car like that for 5 grand. As far as the likelyhood of it happening, tell me something I don't know. (See the 2nd post of this thread.)
No, I can get a New BMW for 5k no problem.
Explaining the new BMW and the tow truck in my driveway to my wife... well maybe that might not be a problem either if I tell her it's for her... the tow truck that is.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:42 AM
OneManBand's Avatar
OneManBand OneManBand is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sharonville, OH
Posts: 1,089
Rep Points: 1165
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham69Rock View Post
Obviously because that high 2nd rounder is so frickin' far from guaranteed.......A 4 sure 25 yr old former #4 pick overall w/out too many miles on his tires is > or @least = 2 a 2nd rd rb (ball/lacy/the sc guy). DMAC all the way if given those choices
Maybe we are better off giving up our second round pick... but I have watched the movie 300 to many times to okay with it.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:45 AM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 35,315
Rep Points: 35053
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham69Rock View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_McFadden CP6 for McFadden + KirkPatrick = STEAL....................He's still 25 yrs old, + I really don't see anyone else being there to serve the need. (by the way, I'm not just completely frickin' stoned when I say this....I did pull this up in another thread 1st: http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nf...ks-on-the-move) I mean seriously, if Jay is infact leaving, D-Mc was a beast under Hue Jackson. Plus, considering what this team has accomplished in the past w/ former 1st rounders. I mean, this guy was #4 overall + he's still only 25 yrs old. Not too awful many miles on the tires............
Hes a running back that cant finish a season healthy = No close to being worth a 2nd rounder.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:56 AM
ICKYSHUFFLE's Avatar
ICKYSHUFFLE ICKYSHUFFLE is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: parts unknown
Posts: 2,213
Rep Points: 2855
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by BengalsFan024 View Post
Hes a running back that cant finish a season healthy = No close to being worth a 2nd rounder.
If he even had 2 full seasons I would consider but the guy has barely made it to 12 games twice and the rest is less that 10 if I remember correctly.
In other words NO!!! DHB is a different story.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:34 AM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 35,315
Rep Points: 35053
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKYSHUFFLE View Post
If he even had 2 full seasons I would consider but the guy has barely made it to 12 games twice and the rest is less that 10 if I remember correctly.
In other words NO!!! DHB is a different story.
Yes he Is Demetrius Moore did pretty well for them too..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:59 AM
BengalD's Avatar
BengalD BengalD is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Titusville, Fl
Posts: 478
Rep Points: 815
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanevans View Post
Dude can't stay healthy to save his life
Yup - Dude can't run through the tunnel without getting a pulled hammy, pulled groin, stubbed toe - it's always something. Got stuck with him as a#1 fantasy back - never again!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:05 PM
Shake n Blake's Avatar
Shake n Blake Shake n Blake is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Homers gonna home
Posts: 14,289
Rep Points: 31247
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

People bring up McFadden's injuries...then suggest Reggie Bush as alternative?

I wouldn't mind having McFadden. He has the speed we desperately need.

If he gets injured, let BJGE play the Michael Bush role. Either that, or you can split carries to preserve McFadden.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:14 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,625
Rep Points: 16391
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
People bring up McFadden's injuries...then suggest Reggie Bush as alternative?

I wouldn't mind having McFadden. He has the speed we desperately need.

If he gets injured, let BJGE play the Michael Bush role. Either that, or you can split carries to preserve McFadden.
The reason I brought up Reggie Bush is because I think they're somewhat similar. But Bush won;t cost nearly as much as McFadden will. McFadden is due 8 mil this year and is a free agent after this upcoming season. If you bring him in you'll probably have to sign him to an extension and he'll probably want 5 years or so too.

Why not just bring Bush in for 2 or 3 years at around 4-6 per? Cheaper and you get to hold on to your draft pick. Which is also way more valuable now with the new rookie pay scale. We can have Bush and a 2nd rounder inked for less money than what McFadden will make.

And yes, Bush has had some injuries. But nowhere near what McFadden has. Bush has played in 31 of 32 regular season games the last two seasons. And that's with his workload increasing over his earlier years. McFadden has never played in more than 13 games in 5 years. And he's only played in 19 the last two seasons.

I just think Bush is more of a bargain and could be used well with BGE.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:23 PM
THEBURG THEBURG is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,398
Rep Points: 7448
bengals Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

I would like to give it back, and a BMW7, for Carson Palmer.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:27 PM
THE PISTONS's Avatar
THE PISTONS THE PISTONS is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 9,755
Rep Points: 8711
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake n Blake View Post
People bring up McFadden's injuries...then suggest Reggie Bush as alternative?

I wouldn't mind having McFadden. He has the speed we desperately need.

If he gets injured, let BJGE play the Michael Bush role. Either that, or you can split carries to preserve McFadden.
McFadden is borderline MVP-caliber when healthy.

He was pretty bad last year averaging 3.3 ypc. The 2 years before he was over 5 ypc.

With that said, 13 is high career high for games played in a season.

Trades in the NFL are generally for pennies on the dollar too. I think a 2nd Round pick is a little high for him given how trades usually work.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:45 PM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 35,315
Rep Points: 35053
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
McFadden is borderline MVP-caliber when healthy.

He was pretty bad last year averaging 3.3 ypc. The 2 years before he was over 5 ypc.

With that said, 13 is high career high for games played in a season.

Trades in the NFL are generally for pennies on the dollar too. I think a 2nd Round pick is a little high for him given how trades usually work.
they also switched their OL blocking scheme this past year.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-14-2013, 02:25 PM
Dalton's_Gang's Avatar
Dalton's_Gang Dalton's_Gang is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Athens, ohio
Posts: 2,116
Rep Points: 2575
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

wed have better performance out of a 1 legged hooker that DMC.
__________________


I support Andy Dalton 100 percent. Some fans expect too much too soon or from too little.

Dalton is not the problem. Sometimes I think the only reason people gripe about him is because they have nothing better to do or simply like to read the word of their own writing, similar to when people complaining just to hear the sound of their own voice.

If the world has no faith in me, Then I have no faith in it.

Prosperity should not be shared with those who did not earn it.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-14-2013, 02:52 PM
stonyhands's Avatar
stonyhands stonyhands is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Back in the USA
Posts: 1,898
Rep Points: 2596
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
The reason I brought up Reggie Bush is because I think they're somewhat similar. But Bush won;t cost nearly as much as McFadden will. McFadden is due 8 mil this year and is a free agent after this upcoming season. If you bring him in you'll probably have to sign him to an extension and he'll probably want 5 years or so too.

Why not just bring Bush in for 2 or 3 years at around 4-6 per? Cheaper and you get to hold on to your draft pick. Which is also way more valuable now with the new rookie pay scale. We can have Bush and a 2nd rounder inked for less money than what McFadden will make.

And yes, Bush has had some injuries. But nowhere near what McFadden has. Bush has played in 31 of 32 regular season games the last two seasons. And that's with his workload increasing over his earlier years. McFadden has never played in more than 13 games in 5 years. And he's only played in 19 the last two seasons.

I just think Bush is more of a bargain and could be used well with BGE.
We have a track record of Free Agents of a certain caliber not wanting to come to Cincinnati. What makes you think Bush is any different or that Miami doesn't resign him. It'd take a McFadden type contract to bring any running back worth a damn to Cincinnati. Plus I thought draft pick acquired through trade are not tradable so it'd have to be our 2nd round pick that is later in the round. But that might just be supplemental draft picks.

Trading for McFadden might be the only opportunity we have to upgrade at RB other than taking a risk and drafting...Kenny Irons, Chris Perry.

McFadden didn't do well this year due to the new coaching regime and blocking scheme. When he was healthy he was a beast for Hue Jackson. Had he have had the hole BJGE had he would have went pay dirt every time.

It'd be a risk for sure but I think he will be looking for redemption.

Last edited by stonyhands; 01-14-2013 at 03:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:09 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,625
Rep Points: 16391
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonyhands View Post
We have a track record of Free Agents of a certain caliber not wanting to come to Cincinnati. What makes you think Bush is any different or that Miami doesn't resign him.
We have a track record of not wanting to pay enough to make free agents of certain caliber to want to come here. It's not as simple as "they don't want to come here" it's "we don't make it appealing enough to for them to want to come here". And that's if we pursue them at all. A lot of guys we don't even try to get. If we want anyone, of any note, sometimes we may have to pay a little more than some other suitors. That could be the case for guy making 2 mil a season, or a guy making 10 mil a season. It just depends on who they are, want they want, and how badly we want them.

And Bush isn't that big of free agent. He may be a big name. But he's not going to command crazy money. I'm guessing he'll get about 5 or 6 at about 3 years. (Less than we paid Antawn Odom)

I know Miami isn't going to bring him back because anybody that followed them this year could see that they were starting to phase Bush out and trying to get Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller get some reps.

Last edited by Toast Jones; 01-14-2013 at 03:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:33 PM
stonyhands's Avatar
stonyhands stonyhands is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Back in the USA
Posts: 1,898
Rep Points: 2596
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
We have a track record of not wanting to pay enough to make free agents of certain caliber to want to come here. It's not as simple as "they don't want to come here" it's "we don't make it appealing enough to for them to want to come here". And that's if we pursue them at all. A lot of guys we don't even try to get. If we want anyone, of any note, sometimes we may have to pay a little more than some other suitors. That could be the case for guy making 2 mil a season, or a guy making 10 mil a season. It just depends on who they are, want they want, and how badly we want them.

And Bush isn't that big of free agent. He may be a big name. But he's not going to command crazy money. I'm guessing he'll get about 5 or 6 at about 3 years. (Less than we paid Antawn Odom)

I know Miami isn't going to bring him back because anybody that followed them this year could see that they were starting to phase Bush out and trying to get Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller get some reps.
So you are saying that we may have to overpay a guy who wasn't good enough to stay on his original team or his next team for him to come to Cincinnati?

Based upon what you are saying that sounds an awful lot like the way our front office does business. Welcome to Cincinnati Reggie Bush.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:47 PM
MentalRage's Avatar
MentalRage MentalRage is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 98
Rep Points: 76
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Although DMC is great when healthy, the is not worth a second rd pick (lots of value in the second round this year). I would rather draft a young, healthy running back rather than over pay DMC for a possible injury plagued year.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:54 PM
ExtraNirvana's Avatar
ExtraNirvana ExtraNirvana is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,396
Rep Points: 9595
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

I don't want to trade our 2nd round pick for a sheet of glass.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:55 PM
Toast Jones's Avatar
Toast Jones Toast Jones is offline
VIP Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 6,625
Rep Points: 16391
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonyhands View Post
So you are saying that we may have to overpay a guy who wasn't good enough to stay on his original team or his next team for him to come to Cincinnati?

Based upon what you are saying that sounds an awful lot like the way our front office does business. Welcome to Cincinnati Reggie Bush.
Please, read what I wrote. "If we want anyone of any note sometimes we may have to pay more than some other suitors."... "That could be the case for a guy making 2 mil a season, or 10 mil a season. It depends on who they are..."

Notice the use of the words "sometimes" and "may". I didn't say we would have to with Bush, but only that we might. I don't know, and wouldn't even venture a guess until I see how the market shapes up and who's courting him. And we may spend a little more for anyone sign here. So are you saying we shouldn't sign anyone, ever?

I also didn't use the word overpay either. I don't equate paying a little more with overpaying. If we're able to get someone to help our team, and we h have to a pay little extra then I don't we overspent on him. As long as they make our team better and don't break the bank.

Lastly, you're comment about him not being good enough for his former team is ridiculous. Was Jonathan Joseph not good enough to stay here? Because we pretty much let him walk. How about Wharton, Thomas Howard, any FA we sign? None of them were good enough to stay with their original teams. That goes for all free agents. So what point are you making exactly? The Dolphins already invested a 2nd round pick in Daniel Thomas right before they signed Bush. It was pretty much a forgone conclusion that they would use Bush to improve their team but that it would eventually be Thomas' role. He's a FA, it's not like they just released him. And he was due a ton of money with the Saints and they were using 3 backs at that time. (Pierre Thomas and Mike Bell) He didn't fit financially any more.

It's real simple in my mind. We need a speed back, and we need a receiving threat. I think Bush could fill those roles for a relatively cheap price. I think someone like Darren McFadden is a pipe dream. It's not going to happen after Mike just spent money on BGE. I still think it would be wise to draft someone in the middle to late round too.

If people want to go a different route, I get it. To each their own.

Last edited by Toast Jones; 01-14-2013 at 04:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:20 PM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 35,315
Rep Points: 35053
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast Jones View Post
Please, read what I wrote. "If we want anyone of any note sometimes we may have to pay more than some other suitors."... "That could be the case for a guy making 2 mil a season, or 10 mil a season. It depends on who they are..."

Notice the use of the words "sometimes" and "may". I didn't say we would have to with Bush, but only that we might. I don't know, and wouldn't even venture a guess until I see how the market shapes up and who's courting him. And we may spend a little more for anyone sign here. So are you saying we shouldn't sign anyone, ever?

I also didn't use the word overpay either. I don't equate paying a little more with overpaying. If we're able to get someone to help our team, and we h have to a pay little extra then I don't we overspent on him. As long as they make our team better and don't break the bank.

Lastly, you're comment about him not being good enough for his former team is ridiculous. Was Jonathan Joseph not good enough to stay here? Because we pretty much let him walk. How about Wharton, Thomas Howard, any FA we sign? None of them were good enough to stay with their original teams. That goes for all free agents. So what point are you making exactly? The Dolphins already invested a 2nd round pick in Daniel Thomas right before they signed Bush. It was pretty much a forgone conclusion that they would use Bush to improve their team but that it would eventually be Thomas' role. He's a FA, it's not like they just released him. And he was due a ton of money with the Saints and they were using 3 backs at that time. (Pierre Thomas and Mike Bell) He didn't fit financially any more.

It's real simple in my mind. We need a speed back, and we need a receiving threat. I think Bush could fill those roles for a relatively cheap price. I think someone like Darren McFadden is a pipe dream. It's not going to happen after Mike just spent money on BGE. I still think it would be wise to draft someone in the middle to late round too.

If people want to go a different route, I get it. To each their own.
the stigma has changed here especially for Defensive players... Cuase of zimmer...

Depending on who our new OC if that position changes is he might have some players to bring in with him.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:23 PM
ICKYSHUFFLE's Avatar
ICKYSHUFFLE ICKYSHUFFLE is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: parts unknown
Posts: 2,213
Rep Points: 2855
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtraNirvana View Post
I don't want to trade our 2nd round pick for a sheet of glass.
And in the Hammer Shop called the AFC North......No thank you.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:38 PM
mrcommish<2009>'s Avatar
mrcommish<2009> mrcommish<2009> is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,733
Rep Points: 1485
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Heyward-Bay blows !
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:42 PM
mrcommish<2009>'s Avatar
mrcommish<2009> mrcommish<2009> is offline
VIP Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,733
Rep Points: 1485
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

and by the way , we blew our chance last year to draft a good young RB , we cant do that again this year . Scott has to go and possibly Peerman too , although he does produce on special teams . i wanted Robert Turbin last year and he didnt go until Round 4 . he sure would look nice along with BGE .
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:47 PM
XenoMorph's Avatar
XenoMorph XenoMorph is offline
VIP Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bengals Territory
Posts: 35,315
Rep Points: 35053
Default Re: I'd be cool w/ giving da' Raiders their 2nd rd pick back for McFadden

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcommish<2009> View Post
and by the way , we blew our chance last year to draft a good young RB , we cant do that again this year . Scott has to go and possibly Peerman too , although he does produce on special teams . i wanted Robert Turbin last year and he didnt go until Round 4 . he sure would look nice along with BGE .
Scott and Leonard are gone this offseason... No reason to bring either back..

Scott has done nothing in 4 years. We barely touched leonard this year.

Draft a Speed back... And roll with BJGE Draftee Peerman (ST's studs are hard to cut) and Herron (ST Stud)
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2012 Cincinnati Bengals. All rights reserved. Do not duplicate in any form without permission of the Cincinnati Bengals.