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  #1  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:18 PM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
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Default Step Back in Time

Here's a nice little piece on Carlos Dunlap before the 2010 draft.

For those that keep saying that these guys this year are far better prospects than Dunlap was, think again. I have yet to see Okafor ever mentioned as the TOP player in the draft, let alone the top DE.

Take it for what it's worth since it's from ESPN, but it should give you some perspective on how these 2013 guys compare to what is already on our team as far as where they were rated before the draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ory?id=4525537
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
Here's a nice little piece on Carlos Dunlap before the 2010 draft.

For those that keep saying that these guys this year are far better prospects than Dunlap was, think again. I have yet to see Okafor ever mentioned as the TOP player in the draft, let alone the top DE.

Take it for what it's worth since it's from ESPN, but it should give you some perspective on how these 2013 guys compare to what is already on our team as far as where they were rated before the draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ory?id=4525537
Again, those ratings don't mean sheot I wish you would get over that already. It has no bearing on what we need at this time. The fact of the matter is dunlap is still inconsistent and we will probably not resign all of our DE's so we need to draft one, the end.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
Here's a nice little piece on Carlos Dunlap before the 2010 draft.

For those that keep saying that these guys this year are far better prospects than Dunlap was, think again. I have yet to see Okafor ever mentioned as the TOP player in the draft, let alone the top DE.

Take it for what it's worth since it's from ESPN, but it should give you some perspective on how these 2013 guys compare to what is already on our team as far as where they were rated before the draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ory?id=4525537

They called 2010 a weak TE class.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:12 PM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Again, those ratings don't mean sheot I wish you would get over that already. It has no bearing on what we need at this time. The fact of the matter is dunlap is still inconsistent and we will probably not resign all of our DE's so we need to draft one, the end.
Then why do people keep saying that Okafir and some of these other guys are better prospects? They're not.

Why wouldn't we resign all of our DEs? We have the money and only 1 will cost a lot.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Then why do people keep saying that Okafir and some of these other guys are better prospects? They're not.

Why wouldn't we resign all of our DEs? We have the money and only 1 will cost a lot.
You DONT KNOW they're not, you're no expert.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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You DONT KNOW they're not, you're no expert.
Yes, actually I do know that they aren't. I don't know if they will be better players.

Anytime you have a guy that was in the discussion as the #1 overall pick during the season you know that he is a good prospect.

We have one of the best d-lines. We have one of the worst sets of linebackers and SS. You're right, it makes perfect sense to draft a DE.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Originally Posted by pulses View Post
You DONT KNOW they're not, you're no expert.
he might not be an expert but let's face it no one is. At this point of the year all players are prospects and nobody know how they will turn out. I think looking back at reports like this helps, what tells us that if we draft a DE with the first pick he'll be more consistent then Dunlap? nothing, it could turn out to be a total bust.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:37 PM
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Yes, actually I do know that they aren't. I don't know if they will be better players.

Anytime you have a guy that was in the discussion as the #1 overall pick during the season you know that he is a good prospect.

We have one of the best d-lines. We have one of the worst sets of linebackers and SS. You're right, it makes perfect sense to draft a DE.
With all due respect no you don't and it makes you look foolish to think you do.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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With all due respect no you don't and it makes you look foolish to think you do.
What part don't you understand?

Prospect. That means BEFORE a player was drafted.

Sam Bradford was a better prospect than Tom Brady. It's easy to tell who a better prospect is because those guys are rated higher.

Is Brady a better player? Yes.

I've yet to see anyone talk about Okafir as the number 1 overall pick. I would say that makes Dunalp a better prospect.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Last edited by Hammerstripes; 01-14-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
What part don't you understand?

Prospect. That means BEFORE a player was drafted.

Sam Bradford was a better prospect than Tom Brady. It's easy to tell who a better prospect is because those guys are rated higher.

Is Brady a better player? Yes.

I've yet to see anyone talk about Okafir as the number 1 overall pick. I would say that makes Dunalp a better prospect.

Why is that so hard to understand?
What I'm telling you is it DON'T MATTER.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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What I'm telling you is it DON'T MATTER.
Of course it matters. Why in the world would you draft a guy that isn't nearly the prospect that a guy already on your team is - especially in the first round. If you want to draft a DE in the 2nd or 3rd, have at it, but it makes ZERO sense to draft a guy that isn't nearly as good as the 2 guys that he will be sitting behind.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
Of course it matters. Why in the world would you draft a guy that isn't nearly the prospect that a guy already on your team is - especially in the first round. If you want to draft a DE in the 2nd or 3rd, have at it, but it makes ZERO sense to draft a guy that isn't nearly as good as the 2 guys that he will be sitting behind.

You don't get it do ya man??? Dunlap is no longer a PROSPECT, he's about a middle of the road DE he's top not tier and he's inconsistent, Okafor is young and has plenty of upside and we need the depth. It doesn't matter if he's the 5th rated DE if he's the BPA when we draft and it fits a need. And you have NO IDEA that Okafor might end up being better than Dunlap.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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You don't get it do ya man??? Dunlap is no longer a PROSPECT, he's about a middle of the road DE he's top not tier and he's inconsistent, Okafor is young and has plenty of upside and we need the depth. It doesn't matter if he's the 5th rated DE if he's the BPA when we draft and it fits a need. And you have NO IDEA that Okafor might end up being better than Dunlap.
1. He doesn't fit a need. I don't know why you keep bringing that up.
2. If you look at Dunlap he consistently grades out as a very good (if not elite) pass rusher. Injuries have slowed him down, not his skill set.
3. I would take Dunlap all day, every day over Okafor. He has nowhere near the upside as Dunlap. Keep in mind, Dunlap is still under 25, so I would say he hasn't reached his ceiling.
4. I can't envision a scenario where Okafor is the BPA at #21. There are too many good players in this draft.
5. Of course I don't have any idea, neither do you.
6. You don't draft for depth in the 1st round.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

The referenced article was written October 9th, 2009. The 2010 Draft took place on April 22, 2010. By the time the draft rolled around NOBODY was touting Carlos as a 1st rounder. as there were serious concerns about his motor, technique, instincts, and character. I could probably go back to earlier in the year and find an article where Marcus Lattimore was far and away the highest rated RB pospect in the nation.

I would hope an article written by an analyst (that also said a TE class consisting og Gresh, Gronk, Graham, and Hernandez weak) almost 1/2 a year before the draft would not discourage us from taking a look at DEs in the upcoming draft.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Originally Posted by pulses View Post
You don't get it do ya man??? Dunlap is no longer a PROSPECT, he's about a middle of the road DE he's top not tier and he's inconsistent, Okafor is young and has plenty of upside and we need the depth. It doesn't matter if he's the 5th rated DE if he's the BPA when we draft and it fits a need. And you have NO IDEA that Okafor might end up being better than Dunlap.
Okafor will be 22 this year. Dunlap will be 24.

Dunlap is young, has plenty of upside, and has 3 years of NFL experience.

DL was the strength of our team and we had two rookies we drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round riding the pine and a 3rd year 3rd round pick who is a 270lbs LB/DE with 4.2 speed that is a natural pass rusher who would be hard to keep off the roster if he was healthy.

If we lose MJ, Gilberry, and Geathers we obviously have a huge need. If we bring them all back we have no need at all. If we bring back just MJ and Gilberry I am still not convinced we have to draft a DE.

IMO we have 3 options on the roster right now to replace Geathers. Still, Moch, and Anderson.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Originally Posted by Hammerstripes View Post
Then why do people keep saying that Okafir and some of these other guys are better prospects? They're not.

Why wouldn't we resign all of our DEs? We have the money and only 1 will cost a lot.
I am with you. I think many of us mock a DE just because of the value. We are in position to grab 4 starters from the draft (assuming we sign our own keepers).

Top needs (we literally have next to nothing):

LB
S
RB

The next tier:

OC
WR

Nice to have:

DE
CB
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

I've never felt we needed to draft a DE. We just need to re-sign Johnson, Geathers and Gilberry. Or let Geathers walk and have Anderson return from injury.

I think we need a WR, LB or OC in round 1.

Since there are no real WR or OC options in the first round, we need to look at LBs and only LBs.

Maybe a safety if a high value pick drops, like Kenny Vaccaro. But overall, our first round pick should be one of the following:

Manti Te'o
Alex Ogletree
Kenny Vaccaro
Kevin Minter

Those, really, should be the only 4 players we should be looking to draft at 21.

I'd be open to Jonathan Cooper since he could play guard or center. And I'd be open to Matt Elam or Barrett Jones if either of them has a great combine.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Originally Posted by pulses View Post
You don't get it do ya man??? Dunlap is no longer a PROSPECT, he's about a middle of the road DE he's top not tier and he's inconsistent, Okafor is young and has plenty of upside and we need the depth. It doesn't matter if he's the 5th rated DE if he's the BPA when we draft and it fits a need. And you have NO IDEA that Okafor might end up being better than Dunlap.
middle of the road DE?

You serious?

He's statistically among the best pass rushers in the NFL.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

I know it is a little unfair to judge a player over one game, but Te'o really scared me in the game against Alabama. He really reminded me of Rey M in that game and the Bengals don't need another over hyped linebacker.

I would feel much better grabbing Ogletree or Minter. Potentionally running back Eddie Lacy at 21 too. I don't feel like he will make it out of the first round so we won't be able to get him in the second.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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middle of the road DE?

You serious?

He's statistically among the best pass rushers in the NFL.
41 tackles and 6 sacks in a season is not that impressive, those are middle of the road stats. nuff said.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:59 PM
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41 tackles and 6 sacks in a season is not that impressive, those are middle of the road stats. nuff said.
He was in a rotation.

And tackles and sacks aren't the only stats that matter to a DE.

As a pass rusher, I believe he was rated as the 8th best pass rusher in the NFL.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: Step Back in Time

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Originally Posted by pulses View Post
Again, those ratings don't mean sheot I wish you would get over that already. It has no bearing on what we need at this time. The fact of the matter is dunlap is still inconsistent and we will probably not resign all of our DE's so we need to draft one, the end.
I dont think anybody is saying we shouldnt draft a DE. But we dont NEED one in the first round. People forget there are 6 rounds after the first to get players. DE is not one of our top 3 biggest needs as long as we re-sign johnson.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:54 AM
Hammerstripes Hammerstripes is offline
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The referenced article was written October 9th, 2009. The 2010 Draft took place on April 22, 2010. By the time the draft rolled around NOBODY was touting Carlos as a 1st rounder. as there were serious concerns about his motor, technique, instincts, and character. I could probably go back to earlier in the year and find an article where Marcus Lattimore was far and away the highest rated RB pospect in the nation.

I would hope an article written by an analyst (that also said a TE class consisting og Gresh, Gronk, Graham, and Hernandez weak) almost 1/2 a year before the draft would not discourage us from taking a look at DEs in the upcoming draft.
It has nothing to do with the strength of the draft that year, it has everything to do with the level of prospect that Dunlap was. Sure, he had a horrible end of the season, but at one point he was a very legit top 5 overall DE. The same can't be said for Okafor, the subject of this debate.

And, of course, you can find something that says that Lattimore was the highest rated RB. He was, based on talent. Injury always plays a role in the draft.
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