Gruden not as bad as we all think...

[CornerBlitz]

First off let me say that i was thoroughly disappointed in the gameplan against the Texans. I expected a more creative gameplan and not targeting AJ green in the first half is unacceptable.

With that said i think our offense improved from last season. When this offense was clicking it was extremely fun to watch. Green going deep, hawkins in the slot, and Sanu on the opposite side to go along with Gresham up the seam is a very formidable offense. Gruden in my opinion is not the problem. I think our real problem is Dalton as well as our WRs not getting any separation from the DBs.

Here was our offense the last month of the season in a nutshell. Dalton pre snap reads the defense, and has already made his decision on where he is going to throw the ball. He looks at Receiver A, if not open he will either scramble out of the pocket, get sacked, or force the ball in tight coverage. Rarely did he check the ball down or go to option B when there were other options.

Now on the flip side most of the time Dalton did read the coverage properly, but the WR such as Hawkins, or Jones just didn't get open one on one. In addition our pass blocking was very average and he would be forced to make a quick decision.

2 things would do wonders for this offense. One would be for Dalton to be a little more patient and go through his progressions. The next thing would be for us to pick up another WR opposite Green that can create separation and take advantage of one on one coverage.

In the end Gruden drew up the plays, and our offense was awful the last few games, but I think in this particular case the blame game goes to the players more so than the coach.

I know this is an unpopular opinion right now but if you watch the coach film it wasn't as if the plays were poorly designed. The only gripe I have with Gruden is that he sometimes should stick to the run more when it is working. Anyways I think Gruden is the right fit for this offense and this QB at this time. Give him another year.

[Shady]

We can't excuse the numerous drops and sawed-off routes (even by AJ - in Pitt - that led to an INT), you're right about all that. Neither can we excuse the terrible decision to start Cook. But the last few games were poorly planned, if they were planned at all.

So, I guess it's a toxic combination of bad planning and poor execution.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

You hear that, San Diego, Jacksonville, Arizona, and Philadelphia? Jay Gruden is the best thing since sliced bread, hand sanitizer, anti-lock brakes, and silicone all combined. That's right all you fans of the Chargers, Jaguars, Cardinals, and Eagles: Jay Gruden could be all yours. He's waiting by the phone, you guys, so come on! To paraphrase the great philosopher Carly Rae Jepsen, "You have his number, so call him maybe."

[stenten2]

Originally Posted by Shady

We can't excuse the numerous drops and sawed-off routes (even by AJ - in Pitt - that led to an INT), you're right about all that. Neither can we excuse the terrible decision to start Cook. But the last few games were poorly planned, if they were planned at all.

So, I guess it's a toxic combination of bad planning and poor execution.

I tend to agree. I feel like he isn't as bad as the offense looked of late. But I think the Bengals could get a better O.C. Dalton could benefit from the continuity, but I feel they could get a better coordinator.

I'm really torn on this issue.

[RedBengal9]

Originally Posted by stenten2

I tend to agree. I feel like he isn't as bad as the offense looked of late. But I think the Bengals could get a better O.C. Dalton could benefit from the continuity, but I feel they could get a better coordinator.

I'm really torn on this issue.

His worst year was by far his first year, which he pretty much got a pass for.

This past year wasn't as bad, but he left a bad taste in everyone's mouth after the playoff game. That's why everyone is screaming for him to get out of town.

[coachmcneil71]

I agree and he is good with teaching young QB's.
The team is fortunate to have both Hue and Gruden on that side of the ball.
Two years two playoffs is god like compared to the previous play caller.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Originally Posted by stenten2

I tend to agree. I feel like he isn't as bad as the offense looked of late. But I think the Bengals could get a better O.C. Dalton could benefit from the continuity, but I feel they could get a better coordinator.

I'm really torn on this issue.

I'm not torn at all. Jay Gruden is an improvement over Bob Bratkowski but he's not the one who can get Cincinnati to the Super Bowl. Give me someone with an actual championship resume like Mike Martz, Marty Mornhinweg, Ken Whisenhunt, or Cam Cameron.

[Munoz The Great]

The MAIN problems are the fact that our current OL can't pass-block to save their own live's and Gruden's poor play-calling....

[bengalfan74]

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

I'm not torn at all. Jay Gruden is an improvement over Bob Bratkowski but he's not the one who can get Cincinnati to the Super Bowl. Give me someone with an actual championship resume like Mike Martz, Marty Mornhinweg, Ken Whisenhunt, or Cam Cameron.

Right on !

[TheLeonardLeap]

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

I'm not torn at all. Jay Gruden is an improvement over Bob Bratkowski but he's not the one who can get Cincinnati to the Super Bowl. Give me someone with an actual championship resume like Mike Martz, Marty Mornhinweg, Ken Whisenhunt, or Cam Cameron.

Yuuuuup.... pretty much.

-He gets the best receiver in the AFC and then he ignores him for an entire half of a football game. Not once, but twice, and one of the two in a playoff game. Surprisingly enough the Bengals lost both.
-I think there was a 7 game streak during the season where BJGE ran on every single first down play.
-He gets 3rd and 2s and calls a deep pass regularly.
-He keeps asking a receiving TE to block top pass rushers 1-on-1 (Cameron Wake and Justin Tuck to name a few) and is just begging for a penalty, which ends up happening.
-He drafts a QB who's two main strengths are throwing the ball quickly, and anticipation throws...and after a successful rookie season, asks him to hold onto the ball longer, and make "unscripted plays" which are the two OPPOSITES of his two main strengths... and surprise surprise, he has a less impressive second season.
-His offense has scored a grand total of 16 points in 2 playoff games. Really, 16.


The only way I believe that Gruden is not as bad as we all think... is if he's actually worse than we all think. No way are you going to convince me he's any good.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

No way are you going to convince me he's any good.

Jay Gruden is good -- but good doesn't win the Super Bowl. Good gets a team to the playoffs but not through the playoffs. Mike Zimmer and Darrin Simmons are Super Bowl-caliber coordinators but Jay Gruden is not. If those three guys were three golf balls in a new box, Zimmer and Simmons would be brand-new Titleists while Gruden would be a driving range ball with a stripe around it.

[ExtraNirvana]

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

I'm not torn at all. Jay Gruden is an improvement over Bob Bratkowski but he's not the one who can get Cincinnati to the Super Bowl. Give me someone with an actual championship resume like Mike Martz, Marty Mornhinweg, Ken Whisenhunt, or Cam Cameron.

You'd rather hace Cameron or Martz? That sounds like the fast track to Bungleville again.

[Abspara]

2011 -20th ranked offense in the NFL

2012 - 22nd ranked offense in the NFL

Is he really that good?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Originally Posted by ExtraNirvana

You'd rather hace Cameron or Martz? That sounds like the fast track to Bungleville again.

Not necessarily those guys in particular, just someone who has taken a team deep into the playoffs. I want an offensive coordinator who knows the requisite level of effort and quality of play needed to win it all.

[Bryan]

Originally Posted by Abspara

2011 -20th ranked offense in the NFL

2012 - 22nd ranked offense in the NFL

Is he really that good?

Well, to be fair Jerome Simpson > Binns/Tate. Not having a even half way decent #2 really screwed us. I don't know who made the final call on rotating #2 receivers. But I do know Jay is getting the blame, maybe it was his call, maybe it was Marvin's we don't know. But when Sanu started those 4 games our offense was clicking and moving the ball almost at will. Why you ask? Sanu proved reliable enough to draw attention away from AJ. Sanu broke his foot and our offense played worse than when Binns was in.

[bradfritz21]

I think he tries too hard sometimes and tries to go for the kill with the flashy play or big play instead of just going for the kill by calling sound football.

Example: we're up two on Dallas, Dallas is missing their starting nose tackle so The Law Firm is averaging over 7 yards a carry, so alls we need to do is run the ball to get a few first downs, force them to use their timeouts, and run out the clock. Gruden calls two short passes, which they were short so it's not that bad, but then he calls deep left to Marvin Jones, incomplete, clock stopped, stupid call. Then he throws a short pass to Gresham for six yards, which short passes are completed more so that's not bad, but, instead of giving it to The Law Firm on third and four to get it easy, he calls another pass and Dalton gets sacked for a loss of ten.

Dallas only had two timeouts but wasn't forced to use either of them.

I just realized that Gruden was probably still calling plays like it it was arena and they are so high scoring that you try and play up-tempo score on every possession until the clock expires.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by Abspara

2011 -20th ranked offense in the NFL

2012 - 22nd ranked offense in the NFL

Is he really that good?

He's probably getting some play out of his last name and he's probably getting some credit for getting an offense with a good but not great QB and one real weapon in AJ to the playoffs in both of those players first two seasons.

Plus, he probably interviews well.

I could go either way, I think there are other OCs we could bring in i.e. Wisenhunt that could do a fine job. I am really disappointed in the offensive showing in this year's playoff game. If he stays, fine, if not, just get another good WCO guy.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering

I'm not torn at all. Jay Gruden is an improvement over Bob Bratkowski but he's not the one who can get Cincinnati to the Super Bowl. Give me someone with an actual championship resume like Mike Martz, Marty Mornhinweg, Ken Whisenhunt, or Cam Cameron.

Mike Martz is crap. He would get Dalton killed.

Sorry but no OC in the NFL is getting this team to the Super Bowl with this crapfest we ran out there this year.

Gruden called some fine plays. But players have to execute. And ours failed horribly at that the last 6 weeks or so.

[TheLeonardLeap]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

He's probably getting some play out of his last name and he's probably getting some credit for getting an offense with a good but not great QB and one real weapon in AJ to the playoffs in both of those players first two seasons.

Plus, he probably interviews well.

I could go either way, I think there are other OCs we could bring in i.e. Wisenhunt that could do a fine job. I am really disappointed in the offensive showing in this year's playoff game. If he stays, fine, if not, just get another good WCO guy.

Get Whisenhunt. That guy actually knows how to coach to the strengths of a not terribly athletic QB who likes to throw it quickly. Why do you think Warner played his best football in 6 years there, and never took more than 26 sacks in a season either.

He's what Dalton needs. Heck, he's also what AJ Green needs since he also understand the need to feed the ball to a amazingly talented WR, not ignore him for the first 35 minutes of a playoff game.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

Mike Martz is crap. He would get Dalton killed.

Sorry but no OC in the NFL is getting this team to the Super Bowl with this crapfest we ran out there this year.

Gruden called some fine plays. But players have to execute. And ours failed horribly at that the last 6 weeks or so.

The OC has to be held accountable for that lack of execution at the end of the day though too. More so than anyone else.

I think he's a pretty good OC but it ain't like this offense didn't have some major flaws. Best thing you can say about him is that with Andy and AJ and very little of anything else going for him, the team was able to make it to the playoff these past two years.

And it ain't like Dalton is RG3 or Russell Wilson or something. He's pretty good but definitely not great.

So I give Gruden some props. This most recent playoff was too bad not to put some of it on the OC though.

[savagehenry54]

Gruden is not the only dude on the planet who can coach Dalton and AJ btw. I've calmed down since the playoff game and I wouldn't fire the guy. But the notion that Gruden alone knows what to do with Dalton is absurd.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap

Get Whisenhunt. That guy actually knows how to coach to the strengths of a not terribly athletic QB who likes to throw it quickly. Why do you think Warner played his best football in 6 years there, and never took more than 26 sacks in a season either.

He's what Dalton needs. Heck, he's also what AJ Green needs since he also understand the need to feed the ball to a amazingly talented WR, not ignore him for the first 35 minutes of a playoff game.

I would love to Wisenhunt be our OC if Gruden left. I'd love that.

[berserkerone88]

Originally Posted by savagehenry54

The OC has to be held accountable for that lack of execution at the end of the day though too. More so than anyone else.

I think he's a pretty good OC but it ain't like this offense didn't have some major flaws. Best thing you can say about him is that with Andy and AJ and very little of anything else going for him, the team was able to make it to the playoff these past two years.

And it ain't like Dalton is RG3 or Russell Wilson or something. He's pretty good but definitely not great.

So I give Gruden some props. This most recent playoff was too bad not to put some of it on the OC though.

I think he has done a fine job for what he has been handed.
Very limited talent and he has been respectable around the league. Enough to get repeated interviews.

[savagehenry54]

Originally Posted by berserkerone88

I think he has done a fine job for what he has been handed.
Very limited talent and he has been respectable around the league. Enough to get repeated interviews.

Absolutely. I'll bet he interviews great and that's probably the key. NFL GMs wanna find their guy, most of the dudes they interview are gonna have a lot of the same credentials, I think it has a lot to do with how impressive they are in the interviews.

Brat would have crashed and burned to 6-10 records at best with the same talent.

[VCU Rams]

Originally Posted by ExtraNirvana

You'd rather hace Cameron or Martz? That sounds like the fast track to Bungleville again.

id throw morninweg in there too...