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  #51  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by ExtraNirvana View Post
I don't know the numbers I don't need to either. Our offense just flat out played better when Sanu was starting. I saw it with my own 2 eyes.
Put a legit thread across from AJ on the outside and Sanu will catch a lot of passes. He understands how to get open and he knows how to catch in traffic when he isn't all that open. He's a player. That much was obvious.
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  #52  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Put a legit thread across from AJ on the outside and Sanu will catch a lot of passes. He understands how to get open and he knows how to catch in traffic when he isn't all the open. He's a player. That much was obvious.
Exactly he knew how to use his body to box out defenders and has great hands.

He will be a huge factor if healthy all next year..

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  #53  
Old 01-15-2013, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by Luvnit2 View Post
Green had as many drops as Gresham. Let's just say all of receivers need to catch the ball better in 2013.
Yes, but was thrown to less times than AJ. I agree that a lot of green's drops were untimely *cough* dallas game *cough*, but he was still the only reciever on the team worth his salt.

Marvin Jones was a role player, just like Moss on the 49er's. That was the bengals WR problems. The fact that they all played a role other than catching the ball. We tried to use that same sort of finnesse but didn't have anyone other than green to throw to. Sanu was actually a reciever with real hands. I think that is why most people on here credit his injury as to why the bengals offense started reeling when he went down (Not that you're saying this Luv, but I'm just adding to the thread).

Jones' role, "I'll run this route and pull defenders off of green". Sanu's role "I'll actually get open and catch the ball". Even though he didn't have as much production, most people saw the upside and talent he posessed compared to the other recievers on the team.

I personally feel that Sanu is the #2WR of the future, but obviously just like most of the rookie WR's in the league, it's going to take him some time to develop. What do they say again? 3 years? Obviously I could be wrong and Jones could be housh or henry #2, but I think (just as a lot of people here feel) that Sanu will step into that role with ease when given the opportunity.

Even down in Jacksonville, Justin Blackmon could be one of the elite WR's in the league come next year if they get a QB to throw to him (doubt they will, but still a maybe seeing as it's his rookie year).

You just never know with all these unproven guys on the field. I'd love to give them all another chance plus bring in a veteran for competition/mentorism during the preseason. This is a good arguement to have knowing that all of these guys could be awesome given the proper amount of time. The bengals will have some nice depth at WR once again. Thats my prediction.
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  #54  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:17 AM
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bengals Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

Guys.. lets be a little objective here. Sanu only caught passes in 5 games. The Bengals went 3-2 in those games.

They lost to Pittsburgh, and lost to Denver. The won against New York, Oakland, and Kansas City. Sanu had 5 catches for 56 yards and 0 TDs in the two losses. He had 11 catches for 98 yards and 4 TDs in the 3 wins.

First off, his catches and yards aren't impressive.. 16 catches for 154 yards in 5 games projects out to be a full season of 51 catches, 496 yards or so. That's not even as good as Hawkins this year, it's worse than Jerome Simpson in 2011...... People will point out his 4 TD catches in 5 games.. 3 came against the teams that have the 1st and 3rd overall picks in the 2013 draft.

The reason why the Bengals started that winning streak wasn't because of Sanu.. it's because they had a good game against the NYG, and then played two pathetically bad teams... not to mention that the offensive line allowed 4 sacks in the 3 games Sanu caught TDs.. and BJGE had 280 yards rushing at 4.7ypc and 2 TDs.

So unless Sanu singlehandedly made the Raiders and Cheifs terrible, and gave great pass protection, and great run blocking, and played defense that in 3 games allowed only 29pts, while getting 11 sacks, 3 INTs, and 6 FFs that forced amazing field position for the Bengals offense..... I don't think that Sanu was the big reason why the Bengals started looking progressively worse after he got hurt.

(Damn, that was way too much box score research for this early in the morning. Hah)
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  #55  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
That's a great point about Gresham and all of his dropped balls this year.

Likely why Andy was able to establish trust so easily with the sure handed Sanu.
Gresham dropped 6 passes. AJ Green dropped 9
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  #56  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:44 AM
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bengals Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by SunsetBengal View Post
I can't agree with you on that statement.

Sanu is a big target, very sure handed, makes impressive catches in traffic. He's also a tough, physical player that can not only take a hit, but also deliver as a blocker.

You would think that the loss of one rookie wouldn't make that much of a difference, but Andy trusted him, and he was becoming his go-to guy on the underneath routes.
Have to agree here.

I also have seen some talk about separation being a speed factor and not sure I totally agree. I feel precise route running and selling the route is as much of a factor in separation than speed is.
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  #57  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
Gresham dropped 6 passes. AJ Green dropped 9
Even though i agree that AJ should have caught those 9 balls, he was still thrown to more than gresh. Everyone needs to catch the ball, but shoulda, coulda, and woulda don't win superbowls. And really, to compare those two players to each other is silly. They don't even play the same position (not that you're comparing, but just making a statement to those that are comparing).

There is no way at all that anyone can say in any least bit that gresham is better than AJ (again, not that you are, just a message to anyone who tries to back up this stat). Gresham's drops and AJ's drops blow, but they happen. Those are things just like ref's calls that you have to overcome. You can't let it come down to that one play here, or that one play there. You have to make it happen and win regardless of what happens. Our coaches are not good at adjustments to things like that, and they don't call plays that give our playmakers opportunities to make plays at times and that was evident in the playoff game.

Interesting stat though, Bryan.
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  #58  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:13 AM
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bengals Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
Gresham dropped 6 passes. AJ Green dropped 9
Not saying Gresham is better than AJ, but people have made a really big deal about Gresham's drops and fumbles... if your dropped passes stats are right, combine that with the fact Gresham had 2 fumbles, 1 lost.. AJ had 2 fumbles 1 lost... Gresham caught 68% of passes targeted at him while AJ caught 59% of passes targeted at him.

Really, Gresham caught 9% more of the passes thrown his way than AJ. Once again, I am not saying it makes Gresham great or anything.. but the guy doesn't have a fumbling problem like everyone keeps trying to claim, he had a bad stretch of dropped passes (so did almost everyone on the Bengals) but not the 15-20 hyperbole-level numbers I saw some people throwing out there saying Gresham would have 80 catches if he caught all those drops.... he's also not a bust. Is he Rob Gronkowski? No, he's not. You know who is? NOBODY. Gronkowski has put up record numbers for a TE. He has 6 less TDs than Jason Witten in 7 less seasons. He also had huge concerns about having back surgery in college.

Face it though, averaging 600 yards and 5 TDs a year in his first three years are pretty respectable numbers for a TE that's not getting the ball thrown to him by Tom Brady or Drew Brees. Not to mention Gresham is the first TE in franchise history to have three straight games of 50 catches. Seriously.

Gresham had a crap game, but that doesn't make him into as bad of a player that some people are saying, wanting him released or traded. Face the fact that when he's career is over, he'll almost certainly be the best TE in Bengals history.
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  #59  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
Not saying Gresham is better than AJ, but people have made a really big deal about Gresham's drops and fumbles... if your dropped passes stats are right, combine that with the fact Gresham had 2 fumbles, 1 lost.. AJ had 2 fumbles 1 lost... Gresham caught 68% of passes targeted at him while AJ caught 59% of passes targeted at him.

Really, Gresham caught 9% more of the passes thrown his way than AJ. Once again, I am not saying it makes Gresham great or anything.. but the guy doesn't have a fumbling problem like everyone keeps trying to claim, he had a bad stretch of dropped passes (so did almost everyone on the Bengals) but not the 15-20 hyperbole-level numbers I saw some people throwing out there saying Gresham would have 80 catches if he caught all those drops.... he's also not a bust. Is he Rob Gronkowski? No, he's not. You know who is? NOBODY. Gronkowski has put up record numbers for a TE. He has 6 less TDs than Jason Witten in 7 less seasons. He also had huge concerns about having back surgery in college.

Face it though, averaging 600 yards and 5 TDs a year in his first three years are pretty respectable numbers for a TE that's not getting the ball thrown to him by Tom Brady or Drew Brees. Not to mention Gresham is the first TE in franchise history to have three straight games of 50 catches. Seriously.

Gresham had a crap game, but that doesn't make him into as bad of a player that some people are saying, wanting him released or traded. Face the fact that when he's career is over, he'll almost certainly be the best TE in Bengals history.
Gresham is a good TE, but because he's not putting up 1,000 yard seasons with 10 TDs like Gronk, he's a bum.
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Originally Posted by Palumbo83 View Post
Even though i agree that AJ should have caught those 9 balls, he was still thrown to more than gresh. Everyone needs to catch the ball, but shoulda, coulda, and woulda don't win superbowls. And really, to compare those two players to each other is silly. They don't even play the same position (not that you're comparing, but just making a statement to those that are comparing).

There is no way at all that anyone can say in any least bit that gresham is better than AJ (again, not that you are, just a message to anyone who tries to back up this stat). Gresham's drops and AJ's drops blow, but they happen. Those are things just like ref's calls that you have to overcome. You can't let it come down to that one play here, or that one play there. You have to make it happen and win regardless of what happens. Our coaches are not good at adjustments to things like that, and they don't call plays that give our playmakers opportunities to make plays at times and that was evident in the playoff game.

Interesting stat though, Bryan.
Gresham was targeted 94 times, and caught 64 passes that's a 68% catch rate. AJ was targeted 164 times and caught 97 passes, that's a 59.1% catch rate. So in all Gresh dropped less passes and had a higher catch rate. If Gresh were targeted 164 times with his catch rate that's 111.5 passes he catches(you can either choose to round up or down it's up to you) and with 111 catches 1,276 yards and 8 TDs with 10 drops at his current drop rate. I don't know about you but I'd trade 10 drops for 111 catches. I'm not saying Gresh is better than AJ because he isn't, but these people are acting like he's the worst player in the NFL.
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  #60  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Losing Sanu hurt more.....

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Originally Posted by ImpactPlaya View Post
Sanu's loss affected the Bengals ability to convert TDs in the redzone. Dalton got into a comfort zone with Sanu.
once Dalton lost Sanu,he lost confidence in the red zone.
Tate,Hawkins and Jones just don't have the strength and physicality that Sanu possesses.
3 red zone options are harder to defense than 2. Green and Gresham were getting bracket coverage when Sanu went out.
with Sanu in,it was single coverage.


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  #61  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Missing Sanu

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Originally Posted by Abspara View Post
Even more reason for Jay gruden to get canned. If he was that dependent on a rookie WR then he needs to go. A vet WR could of been brought in but we chose to ride with nothing but a bust of a 1st rd TE.
How is that Gruden's fault?

The front office and the head coach make personnel decisions the OC just has some say. Gruden has to tow the company line.
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  #62  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:28 AM
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How is that Gruden's fault?

The front office and the head coach make personnel decisions the OC just has some say. Gruden has to tow the company line.
Exactly. It's the front office.

The front office basically said to him...here's a guy that was on your practice squad that Jacksonville waived. Here's a #5 WR. Here are 2 rookies. Here is a 5 foot 7 guy. Go find a #2,

We didn't even have a #3 caliber guy on the roster!

Last edited by THE PISTONS; 01-16-2013 at 10:31 AM.
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  #63  
Old 01-16-2013, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Missing Sanu

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Originally Posted by caddie View Post
How is that Gruden's fault?

The front office and the head coach make personnel decisions the OC just has some say. Gruden has to tow the company line.
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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
Exactly. It's the front office.

The front office basically said to him...here's a guy that was on your practice squad that Jacksonville waived. Here's a #5 WR. Here are 2 rookies. Here is a 5 foot 7 guy. Go find a #2,

We didn't even have a #3 caliber guy on the roster!
What if Gruden didn't ask for different personnel?

Maybe he was the one who mis-evaluated those guys.
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