Ray Lewis...greatest of all time.

[gmdino]

Now it is no secret that I am not a fan of anything related to the Ravens at all....and Ray Ray is at the top (or bottom depending how you look at it) of the things I do NOT like.

So full disclosure: I think Ray Lewis is in the top ten linebackers all time. You can argue of the list...but I don't believe is the best of ALL time. Maybe over a 10-12 year period but not all time. And at that I'd say he was the best on a great defense...not necessarily the best himself of all the players during that time period.

So, in all seriousness I ask, why do YOU think he is the greatest of all time? Is there a stat or is it just because you think he's a great motivator...which can't be proven with stats and is more opinion?

Is it because the whole defense was so good for so long? Or is it because you think without him the defense would not have been so good?

State your case and defend it.

[MrRager]

I want to know who else is in the top ten, who is ahead of him, and why in your opinion since I'm not a football history buff.

[gmdino]

I posted a list to Facebook a couple weeks ago...

But Singletary, Butkus, Nitschke, Taylor, Lambert (I'm biased...but for his size), Bednarik, Lewis, Hendricks, Thomas, Seau.

Mix and match as you like...and number 10 switches for me depending on the the way I look at it...but Lewis can't crack the top three (maybe four) for me all time.

[XenoMorph]

Originally Posted by gmdino

Now it is no secret that I am not a fan of anything related to the Ravens at all....and Ray Ray is at the top (or bottom depending how you look at it) of the things I do NOT like.

So full disclosure: I think Ray Lewis is in the top ten linebackers all time. You can argue of the list...but I don't believe is the best of ALL time. Maybe over a 10-12 year period but not all time. And at that I'd say he was the best on a great defense...not necessarily the best himself of all the players during that time period.

So, in all seriousness I ask, why do YOU think he is the greatest of all time? Is there a stat or is it just because you think he's a great motivator...which can't be proven with stats and is more opinion?

Is it because the whole defense was so good for so long? Or is it because you think without him the defense would not have been so good?

State your case and defend it.

Hes definately the Best Murderer in the game today.

[Bmoreblitz]

Originally Posted by BengalsFan024

Hes definately the Best Murderer in the game today.

Not surprised NOTHING intelligent comes from your mouth.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by Bmoreblitz

Not surprised NOTHING intelligent comes from your mouth.

No doubt...He should have said accomplice...

[Bmoreblitz]

Originally Posted by gmdino

I posted a list to Facebook a couple weeks ago...

But Singletary, Butkus, Nitschke, Taylor, Lambert (I'm biased...but for his size), Bednarik, Lewis, Hendricks, Thomas, Seau.

Mix and match as you like...and number 10 switches for me depending on the the way I look at it...but Lewis can't crack the top three (maybe four) for me all time.

I'm proud of you gmdino! You can talk with some sense...lol
But here is why:

BUTKUS......LMAO!!!
**** Butkus never went to the playoffs.
**** Butkus if he played today, would come off the field on third down.
**** Butkus did not elevate the level of his teammates.
**** Butkus only played 9 years and made 8 Pro Bowls and was an All Pro 8 times.

There is no argument that LT established and defined the "rush" OLB position. The man had 132.5 sacks. He played for 13 seasons, made 10 Pro Bowls, 10 times an All Pro, was a 3 time DPOY and an NFL MVP.

He also had 1,088 tackles, 9 INT's and 11 fumble recoveries. He changed the game like few in history. He didn't call the plays, or set the defenses, he just did his thing and I'm glad I got to watch him.

Lambert played 11 seasons and made 9 Pro Bowls and 8 All Pro teams. He was a 1 time DPOY, and finished his career with 1,479 tackles, 23.5 sacks, 28 INT's and 17 fumble recoveries. The similarity with Ray was that he was also considered too small to play the MLB position in the NFL. He went to rookie camp at 6'4" and 205 pounds, but he was FAST, like Ray. His speed and talent allowed Bud Carson to redefine defense by establishing the Cover-2, and the Steelers won 4 SB's with Lambert roaming the middle.

In my mind, the most complete LB other than Ray Lewis WAS Lambert. He was a tackling machine, an intimidator, and an excellent pass rusher when he was unleashed, and obviously a great pass defender.

Ray obviously had the longest career of any of the aforementioned. In his 17 seasons he made 13 Pro Bowls (MLB record) and 10 All Pro teams (LB record), the latter only equaled by LT. He is a 2 time DPOY and a SB MVP. He amassed 2,073 tackles, dwarfing the others in that stat, but he also had 41.5 sacks, 31 INT's and 20 FR's.

He is the ONLY member of the 40 sack / 30 Int. club. He took the calls, changed them a lot, set the D, and inspired his teammates better than all others, according to other players.

His stats say he's the best overall, certainly the most complete, and if you want to say it's because he played the longest, it's true. He also has the record for games played at MLB, and there is something to be said for longevity.

There is also something to be said for the fact that Ray Lewis was still making Pro Bowls long after Butkus stopped making tackles and started drinking Miller Lite for money and arguing with Bubba Smith, and long after LT stopped sacking QB's and started raping women and running a crack house.

Ray Lewis is the greatest LB in NFL history..........

Any discussion of the greatest defensive player ever would have Ray Lewis on the short list, along with Reggie White, Deacon Jones, Alan Page, LT, and Butkus.

[Pezmerga]

I'd like to see a list that has average stats per year. Longevity does mean something, but I don't think a 20 year career that is good, is necessarily better than a 10 year career that is great.

Who would you rather have, Barry Sanders or Emmit Smith? Not based on career stats or rings. I'm sure you can argue for Smith, but I'd take Sanders.

Edit: I am not discounting Ray Lewis. But, I don't see him better than top 3 LB, and maybe not top a 10 overall defensive player. At least not without putting some thought into it.

[Bengalzona]

Originally Posted by gmdino

Now it is no secret that I am not a fan of anything related to the Ravens at all....and Ray Ray is at the top (or bottom depending how you look at it) of the things I do NOT like.

So full disclosure: I think Ray Lewis is in the top ten linebackers all time. You can argue of the list...but I don't believe is the best of ALL time. Maybe over a 10-12 year period but not all time. And at that I'd say he was the best on a great defense...not necessarily the best himself of all the players during that time period.

So, in all seriousness I ask, why do YOU think he is the greatest of all time? Is there a stat or is it just because you think he's a great motivator...which can't be proven with stats and is more opinion?

Is it because the whole defense was so good for so long? Or is it because you think without him the defense would not have been so good?

State your case and defend it.

He's no LT, IMAO. But I would put him in the top 10 and maybe the top 5. He's had great production, longevity and leadership. Plus, he has pretty much kept his nose clean after that shooting episode he was indirectly involved in. But, on the other hand, the guy has been enormously hyped since his first season in the league. I've been seeing "Future Hall of Famer!" attached to his name ever since his second season. While it turns out they were probably right, it was way to early to say anything like that. It would be like me declaring AJ Green is a Future Hall of Famer.

[BengalYankee]

Originally Posted by gmdino

I posted a list to Facebook a couple weeks ago...

But Singletary, Butkus, Nitschke, Taylor, Lambert (I'm biased...but for his size), Bednarik, Lewis, Hendricks, Thomas, Seau.

Mix and match as you like...and number 10 switches for me depending on the the way I look at it...but Lewis can't crack the top three (maybe four) for me all time.

Butkus

Read below

http://books.google.com/books?id=jaD...ed=0CDQQ6AEwAQ

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

I've been seeing "Future Hall of Famer!" attached to his name ever since his second season. While it turns out they were probably right, it was way to early to say anything like that. It would be like me declaring AJ Green is a Future Hall of Famer.

Close enough as far as I'm concerned...

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

It's a good point, Manuel. Any of these guys is a major upgrade over years past. Chad and Carson are already destined for the Bengals Hall of Fame and, maybe, Canton.

What team in the league wouldn't take Carson, Chad or TJ? 1... maybe 2. Very few teams would turn away a healthy Rudi. What player playing on the team now isn't an upgrade over the '96 team?

Honestly... I think a lot of this smack talk against our best players is a plot by Brown and Steeler fans posing as Bengal fans to stir up trouble in our franchise. Or maybe that was just an X-files episode I saw once.

The team is putting together a good collection of talent. But they need to focus on one game at a time, answering the question, "What are we going to have to do to beat these guys?" And the last thing they need is distractions from fans.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

Close enough as far as I'm concerned...

I can't find my own posts that a made 2 days ago with the search function.

And give the guy a break. There has to be a statue of limiations for bringing up comments that old that aren't part of a bet.

But really, how do you find such a random post from so long ago? It was a post from JN with 20 posts from August of 2008.

[Beaker]

ray is the best MLB ever....at jumping on the pile and getting credited for tackles.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

I can't find my own posts that a made 2 days ago with the search function.

And give the guy a break. There has to be a statue of limiations for bringing up comments that old that aren't part of a bet.

But really, how do you find such a random post from so long ago? It was a post from JN with 20 posts from August of 2008.

It's quite easy.

Advanced search
Bengalzona
Key words Chad Hall of Fame

Profit

College taught me how to search.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

It's quite easy.

Advanced search
Bengalzona
Key words Chad Hall of Fame

Profit

College taught me how to search.

I guess I didn't get to that class yet. But the fact that you remembered it was him that claimed Chad was a HOFer makes it a little easier to search - obviously.

The question know is, why do you remeber him claiming that in JN all those years ago?

[Woodley]

Originally Posted by Bmoreblitz

Ray Lewis is the greatest LB in NFL history..........

Dare anyone to tell him he's not.

[ballsofsteel]

Good evening gentlemen. I've been watching pro ball for over 40 years. IMHO, Ray Lewis is the best MLB I've seen play (in his prime). He was the most intimidating.

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

I guess I didn't get to that class yet. But the fact that you remembered it was him that claimed Chad was a HOFer makes it a little easier to search - obviously.

The question know is, why do you remeber him claiming that in JN all those years ago?

Oh...no no no...I never saw that post in my life...I was just wondering if he ever made some crazy prediction about Chad back in the day...I just happen to be right.

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

Oh...no no no...I never saw that post in my life...I was just wondering if he ever made some crazy prediction about Chad back in the day...I just happen to be right.

I'd give you a rep (something I haven't given to anyone in months) for that find, but apparently I still need to "spread the rep".

[SteelCitySouth]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

I'd give you a rep (something I haven't given to anyone in months), but apparently I still need to "spread the rep".

[6andcounting]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

I gave gmdino, Woodley and Beaker rep and I was able to give you a rep.

Your welcome.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

It's quite easy.

Advanced search
Bengalzona
Key words Chad Hall of Fame

Profit

College taught me how to search.

I didn't go to college and i figured that out.

You should get your money back.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by 6andcounting

I'd give you a rep (something I haven't given to anyone in months) for that find, but apparently I still need to "spread the rep".

You're a stingy, spiteful basterd.

[BengalbobZilla]

Originally Posted by SteelCitySouth

Oh...no no no...I never saw that post in my life...I was just wondering if he ever made some crazy prediction about Chad back in the day...I just happen to be right.

Chad will be in the HOF...first ballot HOF right there with Palmer

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by BengalbobZilla

Chad will be in the HOF...first ballot HOF right there with Palmer

Ummm. No....

Definitely not the first ballot. Probably the second.