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  #26  
Old 01-10-2013, 02:54 PM
Derrick Derrick is offline
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by FRAv View Post
I know that all these guys are competitors and want to play every snap, but if you're not playing to your ability and aren't 100%; you should sit yourself. If a player is too selfish and decides to stay in a game when there's clearly someone capable waiting on the bench, then yes, it becomes that player's fault. At least Maulaluga had the decency to fake an injury in the playoff game and try and get himself sat.
I'm not sure he wasn't playing up to his ability. We just hadn't anyone in the position with whom to compare him until now. Maybe he was mediocre all along, but there were so many broken parts that he went virtually unnoticed. Something to think about, yes?
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  #27  
Old 01-10-2013, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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You could look at it as nothing is more important than being better at C. PB's first Bengal draft choice was a C. When Richie Braham went down and never came back, it changed everything for Carson Palmer. If your QB is shaky under pressure up the middle, make sure he doesn't have pressure up the middle.

It's the same in almost any sport. You have to be strong up the middle. C, MLB. Top of the list, imo.
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  #28  
Old 01-10-2013, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Cook has never been a "good" center,,,since braham left we have utterly failed to replace him,,cook was better than ghuachic yes, but only average at best,,he just looked better cause the guy he replaced was total garbage. Time for a new center.
I don't recallb who was in charge when Braham was the center, but whoever is making player evaluations since then is really poor at finding a really good center.
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  #29  
Old 01-10-2013, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Cook was terrible last year and people claimed he looked bad because of the guards. Robison was clicking with the guards and the interior running game was strong.


Cook comes back, and the interior line play is terrible once again.


It isn't rocket science.
It is for our fantastic coaching staff

Seriously, I agree with you. I really want to know what this coaching staff is seeing that makes them think Cook is the better option.
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  #30  
Old 01-10-2013, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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I don't recallb who was in charge when Braham was the center, but whoever is making player evaluations since then is really poor at finding a really good center.
cant always get who you want.. sometimes you gotta role with who you got.
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  #31  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:38 PM
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bengals Re: Not really Cook's fault

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I agree Cook was less than stellar coming back into the starting lineup, but was it really his fault? It is tough to come back from an injury that quickly and be thrusted into the starting lineup. The coaches handled this one wrongly. They should have just let Cook be the backup to Robinson and earn his spot back next year. I still think Cook is a good player and one of the better parts of the offensive line the past couple years. In hindsight we can't do anything about it but it was clearly a case where Cook was still rusty and probably still not 100%. I look forward to him coming back to form next year.
Here how about this cook is the reason the offense stinks .....He cant read a blitz .....He cant block a sole ....He cant run block ....And he surly cant pass block ......We aint talking about only this year .....He has been the problum for the last 5 years .....It showed this year in preseason when we played green bay ....He got beat like a drum time and time again...He was never good and he never will be .....And for you to say that him coming back and trying to fit in was the reason he ****** is a joke .....Faine came in 1 week before the start of the season and played 10 times better them cook ever did robinson was then throwen in there and did fine mixing in...... So what are you talking about ....COME ON WILL YOU DONT GIVE ME THAT CRAP....The man stinks....And we aint going any where as long as hes the center
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  #32  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:43 PM
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bengals Re: Not really Cook's fault

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If that's the case, it's Andy who's getting the brunt of it. Maybe that's why he prefers the shotgun.

Also, I don't think Cook is more talented. Robinson was a rook who wasn't even a C when he got here and the line played better when he played. Was it because of Robinson or just a really big coincidence. I see people run right by Cook. Andy gets sacked while he blocks no one. Hmmm...
bRO I SEE THE SAME THING YOU DO GUYS TAKING A BLINE STRAIT TO THE QUARTERBACK ...BYE WAY OF COOK .....HE HAS GOTTA GO
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  #33  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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  #34  
Old 01-10-2013, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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It is for our fantastic coaching staff

Seriously, I agree with you. I really want to know what this coaching staff is seeing that makes them think Cook is the better option.
I've been asking the same question for years about D. Roland.
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:06 AM
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Default Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

No this is not a thread defending Kyle Cook and how honorable he was those last 4 games. Cook throughout his career has been above average at center and was not even close to his normal in 2012. If not for the new rule he would've been placed on season ending IR. I just don't think he had enough time to get back 100% for those last few games. Cook was bad but we can all agree here that he can be much better. I do believe he and Robinson will have a great battle next season in training camp.
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:14 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

Cook was never all that great to begin with. Many people questioned whether he really was below average or if it were the interior line around him as well. With Zeitler and Boling next to him (which are both upgrades from last season), Cook still didn't look that good.

Yes, he was injured. But that happens to everyone. Players play with injuries all the time. Cook shouldn't have been put in. The moment he was put in, the offense sputtered.
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

Here's what was saudcabout Cook before the 2012 injury season



Kyle Cook and total pressures allowed in the NFL

By maxpower617 - Jul-16-12 7:22am
From: 60maxpowero.com
Pro Football Focus has been releasing their "3 Years of ..." articles in the past few weeks, and it's always interesting to see a Bengals name pop up here and there at the bottom or top of some list. Andrew Whitworth ranked the third best offensive tackle in the league in pass blocking effeciency. Defensive ends Michael Johnson and Robert Geathers ranked among the four worst edge rushers in the league in pass rushing effeciency. Geno Atkins ranked second best in the league in pass rushing productivity for defensive tackles.
These articles are interesting and informative, but they always must be taken with a grain of salt, and looked at on case by case basis. For example, Chris Crocker was the most effecient pass rushing defensive back in the league by a mile, but we attributed that to the scheming of defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer, more than the ability of Crocker himself.
In their most recent article, Bengals starting center Kyle Cook, ranked fourth worst in the league in pressure allowed in the past three years. That sounds really, really bad. But, in reality, he amounts to just a below average pass blocker, who has simply been on the field more than anyone else.
Yup, Kyle Cook, a name some casual fans might not recognize, actually leads the entire Bengals team in total number of snaps in the past three years. He also places second in the league in total number of snaps for a center. Only Detroit's Dominic Raoila has taken more snaps at center in the past three years, and he's allowed 4 more pressures.
The article actually addresses this issue, and introduces the more important part.
Total pressure numbers can often be misleading. Sure, Goodwin, Meester, and Raiola [and Cook!] gave up the most pressure, but they also spent a larger portion of their time pass blocking. This is where the PBE formula demonstrates its value and adds a whole new level of context by taking into acount who was giving up the most pressure relative to the number of pass-protecting snaps.
So, while Kyle Cook is ranked fourth worst in the league in total pressures allowed, he isn't in the bottom ten in pass blocking efficiency, which is the next part of the article. That's the important one. It's a ratio of how often you are on the field and how many pressures you allow - which they call Pass Blocking Efficiency.
Since Kyle Cook wasn't in the bottom ten himself, I added up his own numbers and found that he would have fallen just outside the bottom ten. He received a 97.46 Pass Blocking Effeciency rating, just above tenth place's 97.45. So, while that's not good, remember that there's only 32 starting centers in the league, and you can rightfully conclude that Kyle Cook has been a below average pass-blocking center for the past three years. And, hey, guess who ranks as the 4th worst pass blocking center in the last three years? It's the Pittsburgh Steeler's 2011 Pro Bowl Center Maurkice Pouncey.
Like Pouncey, Kyle Cook is generally better at run blocking. Pro Football Focus rated Cook as the sixteenth best run blocking center in 2009, the tenth best in 2010 (Pouncey was fifteenth), and the fourteenth best in 2011 (Pouncey was seventeenth). Therefore, Cook has proven himself as a slightly above average as a run blocker.
Put that all together and you can statistically prove (at least through the eyes of Pro Football Focus) that Kyle Cook is a below average pass blocker, and an above average run blocker. All from an undrafted player who had the much criticized Nate Livings as his right left hand man.
Cook's biggest weakness is his inconsistency. Like Livings (but not as extremely bad), he can make a Pro Bowl block on one play, then allow pressure up the middle on the next play. He has stretches of very good games, and stretches of very bad games. If Cook can eliminate those mistakes and improve on his consistency, he can play like one of the best centers in the league. The Bengals certainly believe so. When the Bengals extended players in the 2011 offseason, they chose to extend Leon Hall, Andrew Whitworth, and Kyle Cook. They signed Cook to a four year extension, worth over $2.5 million per year.
He's signed through 2015, so if you don't like him, you should get used to him. He has been the Bengals second best run-blocking lineman for the past two years, and he finally is getting some good run-blockers around him in free agent left guard Travelle Wharton and first round right guard Kevin Zeitler. We'll see how the season plays out, but we know for sure that the Bengals organization is optimistic about the future of Kyle Cook.
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

I've been hard on Cook for the way that he played since coming back from his injury, but in all fairness, he was a huge upgrade over Guysuck and the fact that this coaching staff actually allowed this guy (Guysuck) to be the starting C for 2 yrs is absolutely mind-boggling!!!
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

Draft Barrett Jones over Ogletree in the 1st or early 2nd. Dalton needs time in the pocket & with the return of Wharton we should be okay...Cook stinks and doesn't block anyone. He got owned on a couple plays in the playoffs. Im not sure Robinson is the answer either. Why not just draft a pro bowl caliber center.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Draft Barrett Jones over Ogletree in the 1st or early 2nd. Dalton needs time in the pocket & with the return of Wharton we should be okay...Cook stinks and doesn't block anyone. He got owned on a couple plays in the playoffs. Im not sure Robinson is the answer either. Why not just draft a pro bowl caliber center.
Yes he got burned but was he 100%
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  #41  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

If we don't sign a FA C or draft one I think he should be given a shot to compete with Robinson, he shouldn't have the job handed to him.
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Originally Posted by bengals85 View Post
Here's what was saudcabout Cook before the 2012 injury season



Kyle Cook and total pressures allowed in the NFL

By maxpower617 - Jul-16-12 7:22am
From: 60maxpowero.com
Pro Football Focus has been releasing their "3 Years of ..." articles in the past few weeks, and it's always interesting to see a Bengals name pop up here and there at the bottom or top of some list. Andrew Whitworth ranked the third best offensive tackle in the league in pass blocking effeciency. Defensive ends Michael Johnson and Robert Geathers ranked among the four worst edge rushers in the league in pass rushing effeciency. Geno Atkins ranked second best in the league in pass rushing productivity for defensive tackles.
These articles are interesting and informative, but they always must be taken with a grain of salt, and looked at on case by case basis. For example, Chris Crocker was the most effecient pass rushing defensive back in the league by a mile, but we attributed that to the scheming of defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer, more than the ability of Crocker himself.
In their most recent article, Bengals starting center Kyle Cook, ranked fourth worst in the league in pressure allowed in the past three years. That sounds really, really bad. But, in reality, he amounts to just a below average pass blocker, who has simply been on the field more than anyone else.
Yup, Kyle Cook, a name some casual fans might not recognize, actually leads the entire Bengals team in total number of snaps in the past three years. He also places second in the league in total number of snaps for a center. Only Detroit's Dominic Raoila has taken more snaps at center in the past three years, and he's allowed 4 more pressures.
The article actually addresses this issue, and introduces the more important part.
Total pressure numbers can often be misleading. Sure, Goodwin, Meester, and Raiola [and Cook!] gave up the most pressure, but they also spent a larger portion of their time pass blocking. This is where the PBE formula demonstrates its value and adds a whole new level of context by taking into acount who was giving up the most pressure relative to the number of pass-protecting snaps.
So, while Kyle Cook is ranked fourth worst in the league in total pressures allowed, he isn't in the bottom ten in pass blocking efficiency, which is the next part of the article. That's the important one. It's a ratio of how often you are on the field and how many pressures you allow - which they call Pass Blocking Efficiency.
Since Kyle Cook wasn't in the bottom ten himself, I added up his own numbers and found that he would have fallen just outside the bottom ten. He received a 97.46 Pass Blocking Effeciency rating, just above tenth place's 97.45. So, while that's not good, remember that there's only 32 starting centers in the league, and you can rightfully conclude that Kyle Cook has been a below average pass-blocking center for the past three years. And, hey, guess who ranks as the 4th worst pass blocking center in the last three years? It's the Pittsburgh Steeler's 2011 Pro Bowl Center Maurkice Pouncey.
Like Pouncey, Kyle Cook is generally better at run blocking. Pro Football Focus rated Cook as the sixteenth best run blocking center in 2009, the tenth best in 2010 (Pouncey was fifteenth), and the fourteenth best in 2011 (Pouncey was seventeenth). Therefore, Cook has proven himself as a slightly above average as a run blocker.
Put that all together and you can statistically prove (at least through the eyes of Pro Football Focus) that Kyle Cook is a below average pass blocker, and an above average run blocker. All from an undrafted player who had the much criticized Nate Livings as his right left hand man.
Cook's biggest weakness is his inconsistency. Like Livings (but not as extremely bad), he can make a Pro Bowl block on one play, then allow pressure up the middle on the next play. He has stretches of very good games, and stretches of very bad games. If Cook can eliminate those mistakes and improve on his consistency, he can play like one of the best centers in the league. The Bengals certainly believe so. When the Bengals extended players in the 2011 offseason, they chose to extend Leon Hall, Andrew Whitworth, and Kyle Cook. They signed Cook to a four year extension, worth over $2.5 million per year.
He's signed through 2015, so if you don't like him, you should get used to him. He has been the Bengals second best run-blocking lineman for the past two years, and he finally is getting some good run-blockers around him in free agent left guard Travelle Wharton and first round right guard Kevin Zeitler. We'll see how the season plays out, but we know for sure that the Bengals organization is optimistic about the future of Kyle Cook.


I bet this has valuable info... I just cannot read that haha
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

I just wonder what this teams obsession with lower center prospects... It all started with Gutcheck who has a 4th rounder, he lost his job to an undrafted Cook, who almost and by all rights should have lost his job to an undrafted Robinson. Put some damn value into the position and draft a guy in the first three rounds and let that be the end of it for a while. My point being is that we need to find another Richie Braham and stop settling for these off the street guys that fall out of favor after 2 seasons. I love what Robinson gave us when he was filling in, but I dont think he's a long term solution at the position, he's a good player that will be an immediate impact in case of injury. Cook is average, and thats all that he will be, the fact that an undrafted rookie came in and the offense played better with him speaks to his expendability. If we can somehow manage to land a guy like Barrett Jones in the second round I think we would be set for a while.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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I just wonder what this teams obsession with lower center prospects... It all started with Gutcheck who has a 4th rounder, he lost his job to an undrafted Cook, who almost and by all rights should have lost his job to an undrafted Robinson. Put some damn value into the position and draft a guy in the first three rounds and let that be the end of it for a while. My point being is that we need to find another Richie Braham and stop settling for these off the street guys that fall out of favor after 2 seasons. I love what Robinson gave us when he was filling in, but I dont think he's a long term solution at the position, he's a good player that will be an immediate impact in case of injury. Cook is average, and thats all that he will be, the fact that an undrafted rookie came in and the offense played better with him speaks to his expendability. If we can somehow manage to land a guy like Barrett Jones in the second round I think we would be set for a while.
I agree with you 100% and i too would like to see this team pick up a quality C prospect within the first couple rounds of the Draft and i would also like to see this team get a quality LG as well because Boling just doesn't impress me much at this point. Let us not forget that Paul Brown's very first Draft pick as the Bengals founder and HC was a C named Bob Johnson.

Last edited by Munoz The Great; 01-16-2013 at 04:26 AM.
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:06 AM
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bengals Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Originally Posted by Bengal4ever68 View Post
Draft Barrett Jones over Ogletree in the 1st or early 2nd. Dalton needs time in the pocket & with the return of Wharton we should be okay...Cook stinks and doesn't block anyone. He got owned on a couple plays in the playoffs. Im not sure Robinson is the answer either. Why not just draft a pro bowl caliber center.
Seems those that actually make a living grading players would not agree with your assessment.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Originally Posted by bengals85 View Post
Here's what was saudcabout Cook before the 2012 injury season



Kyle Cook and total pressures allowed in the NFL

By maxpower617 - Jul-16-12 7:22am
From: 60maxpowero.com
Pro Football Focus has been releasing their "3 Years of ..." articles in the past few weeks, and it's always interesting to see a Bengals name pop up here and there at the bottom or top of some list. Andrew Whitworth ranked the third best offensive tackle in the league in pass blocking effeciency. Defensive ends Michael Johnson and Robert Geathers ranked among the four worst edge rushers in the league in pass rushing effeciency. Geno Atkins ranked second best in the league in pass rushing productivity for defensive tackles.
These articles are interesting and informative, but they always must be taken with a grain of salt, and looked at on case by case basis. For example, Chris Crocker was the most effecient pass rushing defensive back in the league by a mile, but we attributed that to the scheming of defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer, more than the ability of Crocker himself.
In their most recent article, Bengals starting center Kyle Cook, ranked fourth worst in the league in pressure allowed in the past three years. That sounds really, really bad. But, in reality, he amounts to just a below average pass blocker, who has simply been on the field more than anyone else.
Yup, Kyle Cook, a name some casual fans might not recognize, actually leads the entire Bengals team in total number of snaps in the past three years. He also places second in the league in total number of snaps for a center. Only Detroit's Dominic Raoila has taken more snaps at center in the past three years, and he's allowed 4 more pressures.
The article actually addresses this issue, and introduces the more important part.
Total pressure numbers can often be misleading. Sure, Goodwin, Meester, and Raiola [and Cook!] gave up the most pressure, but they also spent a larger portion of their time pass blocking. This is where the PBE formula demonstrates its value and adds a whole new level of context by taking into acount who was giving up the most pressure relative to the number of pass-protecting snaps.
So, while Kyle Cook is ranked fourth worst in the league in total pressures allowed, he isn't in the bottom ten in pass blocking efficiency, which is the next part of the article. That's the important one. It's a ratio of how often you are on the field and how many pressures you allow - which they call Pass Blocking Efficiency.
Since Kyle Cook wasn't in the bottom ten himself, I added up his own numbers and found that he would have fallen just outside the bottom ten. He received a 97.46 Pass Blocking Effeciency rating, just above tenth place's 97.45. So, while that's not good, remember that there's only 32 starting centers in the league, and you can rightfully conclude that Kyle Cook has been a below average pass-blocking center for the past three years. And, hey, guess who ranks as the 4th worst pass blocking center in the last three years? It's the Pittsburgh Steeler's 2011 Pro Bowl Center Maurkice Pouncey.
Like Pouncey, Kyle Cook is generally better at run blocking. Pro Football Focus rated Cook as the sixteenth best run blocking center in 2009, the tenth best in 2010 (Pouncey was fifteenth), and the fourteenth best in 2011 (Pouncey was seventeenth). Therefore, Cook has proven himself as a slightly above average as a run blocker.
Put that all together and you can statistically prove (at least through the eyes of Pro Football Focus) that Kyle Cook is a below average pass blocker, and an above average run blocker. All from an undrafted player who had the much criticized Nate Livings as his right left hand man.
Cook's biggest weakness is his inconsistency. Like Livings (but not as extremely bad), he can make a Pro Bowl block on one play, then allow pressure up the middle on the next play. He has stretches of very good games, and stretches of very bad games. If Cook can eliminate those mistakes and improve on his consistency, he can play like one of the best centers in the league. The Bengals certainly believe so. When the Bengals extended players in the 2011 offseason, they chose to extend Leon Hall, Andrew Whitworth, and Kyle Cook. They signed Cook to a four year extension, worth over $2.5 million per year.
He's signed through 2015, so if you don't like him, you should get used to him. He has been the Bengals second best run-blocking lineman for the past two years, and he finally is getting some good run-blockers around him in free agent left guard Travelle Wharton and first round right guard Kevin Zeitler. We'll see how the season plays out, but we know for sure that the Bengals organization is optimistic about the future of Kyle Cook.
Great stuff. A lot if interesting information. I am not as optimistic in regard to Cook. If we end up passing a lot, we should have a better pass blocking center and his middle of the pack run blocking may be why we don't run more.

Do you have any statistics on Robinson? It would be interesting to see what kind of center the Bengals sat to get Cook in the game.
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

Nobody deserves a pass. What the Bengals need is more accountability.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

The blame doesnt go on Cook though. It goes on the coaching to put him in while we had a Trevor Robinson playing pretty well. Once Cook got back in the rotation, the offense went kaput.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

The season is over and the finger pointing at Cook should be too. Nothing we do or say on these boards will change the fact that come training camp next year, Kyle Cook will go in as the starter. It should be a good battle to see who will start the season opener as the starter though. I think Trevor Robinson can work on building some strength this offseason and over-take Cook as the starter. Kyle Cook will be fully healed and 100%, so there shouldnt be any excuses. The only issue I see forthcoming, is the coaching staffs inability to chose the better player. We all know the line played worlds better when Robinson was starting and I would like to think the coaching staff knows this now that the season is over and the tape-watching has begun.

There have been a lot of mock drafts with us taking Barrett Jones in the 1st or 2nd round or Frederick in the late 2nd round, but I have a very hard time believing they will pull the trigger on a Center in the draft. They have money owed to Kyle Cook and they have a young center with one years experience under his belt who played well enough to start the NFL. Why bring in another Center? I just dont see it happening. I would rather use the pick on another weapon for Andy or shoring up our LB or Secondary issue on the defense.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

Draft Travis Frederick "Wisconsin" with the second 2nd round pick.

Solid center who has already developed chemistry with Zeitler.
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