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  #51  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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That is what I have been talking about this entire thread...However the reason why he did what he did to those people was simply to cover up his doping...
Then why does everyone keep saying you're talking about one guy? Ugh. A lot of people are talking in one thread. Let's all take a time out. Eat a sandwich, who knows.
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  #52  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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Then why does everyone keep saying you're talking about one guy? Ugh. A lot of people are talking in one thread. Let's all take a time out. Eat a sandwich, who knows.
I was just using one guy as an example of what he used his PR and influance to do to a lot of people. Including teammates and ex-teammates.
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  #53  
Old 01-15-2013, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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So, are you saying that if you bully once or do one bad thing you're a horrible human being incapable of doing any good? Not saying in this instance, as Armstrong is clearly a crap human being that endorses his foundation for good, while sucking good out of people (irony). I'm just wondering. I mean, I do believe in redemption, albeit, for Armstrong, it is going to be hard to do.
I'm saying the time has come for him to be held accountable for the bullying his fame and fortune afforded him.

There's no denying the wealth of great things Armstrong has done for cancer research. He has already been praised, idolized, deified and rewarded immensely for that. While reaping all those benefits, he fervently attacked and bullied those who dared to point out the lies upon which those benefits were acquired. He is a cheater, a liar and a bully and if we do not hold such people accountable for such actions, what incentive is there for others to act any different.

If our intent is strictly to be an ends-justify-the-means society, then I guess this is perfectly acceptable. I like to think we can do better.
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  #54  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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I'm saying the time has come for him to be held accountable for the bullying his fame and fortune afforded him.

There's no denying the wealth of great things Armstrong has done for cancer research. He has already been praised, idolized, deified and rewarded immensely for that. While reaping all those benefits, he fervently attacked and bullied those who dared to point out the lies upon which those benefits were acquired. He is a cheater, a liar and a bully and if we do not hold such people accountable for such actions, what incentive is there for others to act any different.

If our intent is strictly to be an ends-justify-the-means society, then I guess this is perfectly acceptable. I like to think we can do better.
I think you are missing the part about him coming clean and admitting guilt...
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
I'm saying the time has come for him to be held accountable for the bullying his fame and fortune afforded him.

There's no denying the wealth of great things Armstrong has done for cancer research. He has already been praised, idolized, deified and rewarded immensely for that. While reaping all those benefits, he fervently attacked and bullied those who dared to point out the lies upon which those benefits were acquired. He is a cheater, a liar and a bully and if we do not hold such people accountable for such actions, what incentive is there for others to act any different.

If our intent is strictly to be an ends-justify-the-means society, then I guess this is perfectly acceptable. I like to think we can do better.

So tell us how you really feel about him?
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  #56  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:07 PM
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He is a cheater, a liar and a bully
Sounds like 90% of our elected officials....and they effect our life's a lot more than some athlete who cheated...I know wrong thread ...lol
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  #57  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:18 PM
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I think you are missing the part about him coming clean and admitting guilt...
Is simply admitting guilt in some softball interview with Oprah Winfrey going to fix the lives he intentionally wrecked to varying degrees to cover for his deceit? For that matter, is he even going to admit to the wrongdoing resulting from his psychopathic ways? Even if he does so in this well-orchestrated, if desperate PR move on the OWN network, it is each and every one of the those he threatened and harassed whom he should be apoligizing to, not Oprah and the vast viewing audience to whom he will play the woe-is-me card in a sad but subtle plea for sympathy.

That's what's truly missing here.
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  #58  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

At this point, honestly, I just don't care.

It's more and more apparent that this kind of behavior is standard operating procedure in big time sport activities.
Like take the Patriots and their fans crowing right now... they still haven't won a title that didn't involve cheating.


And these things aren't even as bad as the activities our elected leaders do.
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  #59  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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Originally Posted by 34inXXIII View Post
Is simply admitting guilt in some softball interview with Oprah Winfrey going to fix the lives he intentionally wrecked to varying degrees to cover for his deceit? For that matter, is he even going to admit to the wrongdoing resulting from his psychopathic ways? Even if he does so in this well-orchestrated, if desperate PR move on the OWN network, it is each and every one of the those he threatened and harassed whom he should be apoligizing to, not Oprah and the vast viewing audience to whom he will play the woe-is-me card in a sad but subtle plea for sympathy.

That's what's truly missing here.
You sure do know a lot about who he apologized to and the interview that hasn't even be aired yet. Lance, is that you?
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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I think you are missing the part about him coming clean and admitting guilt...
Oh, come on! He denied it thousands of times... recent developments and evidence just finally gave him no other choice. Not a single praise for his "coming clean and admitting guilt" is deserved.

And I honestly don't get those who still defend that guy. What was there to read...

- 1. He did so much good with the money he earned... yeah well. How on earth does that justify a systematic betrayal. If that makes it ok, I guess I just will rob a bank and give some of the loot to the homeless people to avoid prosecution. And really, he is no freakin' Robin Hood...
(And who knows what good would some other winners have done?)

- 2. Everybody else does it, so he just had to dope as well... oh my. That doesn't justify his actions at all, it just dishonours the others (or, in that case, everybody else as well) - and nothing else. Maybe (well, probably) this sports really is just infested with doping. When figuring that out, there are two honourable options: Stay clean (and finish 78., leaving you a smaller piece of the cake and having to settle with a local girl instead of Sheryl Crow), or quit and do something else. You go with all the frauds instead, you're just one of them. And he just didn't go with them, he obviously surpassed them with his methods.

- 3. No one cares about cycling... ok I really do not. But the millions of fans on the track probably would beg to differ, and those in front of the TV, those who saw him as a hero and an idol, those who believed him, those on whose interest - in the end - he built his income from. (Not to mention those who were threatened or sued for calling him out.)

How anyone can feel sympathy for this man or what he did truely is absolutely beyond me. Come on, you can do better, you might find better heroes. Why should he be forgiven - while every little criminal who might be really just desperate when committing his acts is sent away to prison without hesitation, and punishment can't be too high. Lancie just has to cry a little on Oprah, and everything is fine? I do not get it.
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  #61  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

Arguably the greatest story in the history of sports was just a big pile of **** and that's why it's such a big deal.

It was still impressive that he won and whatever, but he always said that it was all him and his dedication. It's kind of taking every person that fights and overcomes cancer and just kicking them in the nuts (the symbolic nuts for females) because so many people are overcoming cancer and fighting it head-on to get back to life and he's taking short-cuts.

Know what sums it up for me? When he's in that scene in dodgeball and says something about how he was thinking about quitting, but them got back on the bike with the support of friends and family to win five times in a row.

Are they going to re-make the movie so that Lance gives Vince Vaugn PEDs and says "now you'll be able to win................ go get em, brother"?
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  #62  
Old 01-16-2013, 12:00 AM
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Is lying about doping while in a athletic competition the same as robing a bank?
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  #63  
Old 01-16-2013, 08:35 AM
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Is lying about doping while in a athletic competition the same as robing a bank?
No, of course not, that's just a rhetorical element. What both have in common is, of course, that both are examples of "doing wrong" (and even the loot might be similarly high) - which, in my opinion, can't be justified subsequently by saying "but he did some good with all the money he wrongfully achieved... so it should be ok and let's forget about it..." - et voilá.
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  #64  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:26 PM
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No, of course not, that's just a rhetorical element. What both have in common is, of course, that both are examples of "doing wrong" (and even the loot might be similarly high) - which, in my opinion, can't be justified subsequently by saying "but he did some good with all the money he wrongfully achieved... so it should be ok and let's forget about it..." - et voilá.

I do agree Armstrong as been a real douchag to some people ..and I'm sure he will pay the price for being one .. But if there is a silver lining people in need did benefit from him and his organization... Some people can forgive and some people can not ... IMHO it's never to late to come clean ...
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Disappointed in Armstrong

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I do agree Armstrong as been a real douchag to some people ..and I'm sure he will pay the price for being one .. But if there is a silver lining people in need did benefit from him and his organization... Some people can forgive and some people can not ... IMHO it's never to late to come clean ...
Well, I give you that much, he could have been "worse", ethically speaking, but that doesn't make his deeds "right". Granted, he helped people, and that might count as attenuating circumstances.
-
Still he's a betrayer, and the means to help others came from betrayal. And I don't believe that this betrayal becomes any less relevant. And I also do not see his "coming clean" as any kind of insight I should respect. He showed thousands of times that he himself had no intention whatsoever to do so. Piling evidence just finally left him no other choice (without turning completely ridiculous), therefore I don't regard his remorse as applicable in any way. He simply was forced to, it's not his merit.
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