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  #76  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:59 AM
TheCincinnatiKid TheCincinnatiKid is offline
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
024 - Examples? I can't watch the games on NFL Rewind anymore because my subscription expired when the playoffs started. Are any of the vague moments you listed above game changing moments in the game?

Kid - Or could it just be that Robinson started during a stretch where the Bengals played horrible teams that are now picking in the top 5 of this years draft?

What nobody wants to admit is that the offense struggled the most because the young QB was having trouble adjusting to NFL pocket pressure and reading NFL defenses.

Like it or not, that is the reason, not Cook.
Again, re-read. Nowhere am I saying Cook was the reason we dropped in form. It was coincidental that it happened when Cook came back, because yes he wasn't the WHOLE fault of the offence.

Robinson can only play against who was in front of him. Lets not forget we couldnt run the ball, nor did the line pass-protect well before Robinson starting playing either... forget the last part of the season, the line didnt look great BEFORE Robinson was in.

And no, thats not me saying he's the fix, or he's instantly better than Cook. You're right in saying the offence struggled for far more reasons than problems at Center. Yes Cook's taking more of a slating on here than he deserves. But Marv (or whoever) should never have put him back into the starting lineup so quickly when it was working with Robinson. We should've left him in until his standard dropped, not alter a line that was playing well.

And in the same way we cant pin our drop in offensive form on Cook, it'd be silly to place it all on Andy either. The offence as a whole didnt perform well in the last few games, not one guy.
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  #77  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Originally Posted by TheCincinnatiKid View Post
Again, re-read. Nowhere am I saying Cook was the reason we dropped in form. It was coincidental that it happened when Cook came back, because yes he wasn't the WHOLE fault of the offence.

Robinson can only play against who was in front of him. Lets not forget we couldnt run the ball, nor did the line pass-protect well before Robinson starting playing either... forget the last part of the season, the line didnt look great BEFORE Robinson was in.

And no, thats not me saying he's the fix, or he's instantly better than Cook. You're right in saying the offence struggled for far more reasons than problems at Center. Yes Cook's taking more of a slating on here than he deserves. But Marv (or whoever) should never have put him back into the starting lineup so quickly when it was working with Robinson. We should've left him in until his standard dropped, not alter a line that was playing well.

And in the same way we cant pin our drop in offensive form on Cook, it'd be silly to place it all on Andy either. The offence as a whole didnt perform well in the last few games, not one guy.
We agree that Robinson and Cook are both better than Faine.

I don't place it all on Andy, it was the entire offense taking turns at making mistakes in critical situations.

Take the playoff game for example, Cook didn't under throw Marvin Jones for an INT with no pressure on him.

Cook didn't under throw AJ Green in the end zone that got broken up, with no pressure on him.

Cook didn't over throw a wide open AJ that would of been the go ahead score with no pressure on him.

Cooks man didn't come around and strip Andy of the football.

Cook didn't drop 3 passes.

Cook wasn't the guy that didn't get his head around on a hot read that got intercepted.

See what I mean?

Why all the clamoring for a new Center?

Thread after thread of it.
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  #78  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:15 PM
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bengals Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by xwhodey77 View Post
I agree Cook was less than stellar coming back into the starting lineup, but was it really his fault? It is tough to come back from an injury that quickly and be thrusted into the starting lineup. The coaches handled this one wrongly. They should have just let Cook be the backup to Robinson and earn his spot back next year. I still think Cook is a good player and one of the better parts of the offensive line the past couple years. In hindsight we can't do anything about it but it was clearly a case where Cook was still rusty and probably still not 100%. I look forward to him coming back to form next year.


I said at the time that you should never mess with the O-line in the middle of a playoff run
and it would come back to bite us. Robinson was playing well and the O-line was starting
to gel. Just stupid by the coaches period.

Sure it is not Cook's fault. Robinson should have stayed the starter though no question.
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  #79  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Originally Posted by TheCincinnatiKid View Post
Again, re-read. Nowhere am I saying Cook was the reason we dropped in form. It was coincidental that it happened when Cook came back, because yes he wasn't the WHOLE fault of the offence.

Robinson can only play against who was in front of him. Lets not forget we couldnt run the ball, nor did the line pass-protect well before Robinson starting playing either... forget the last part of the season, the line didnt look great BEFORE Robinson was in.

And no, thats not me saying he's the fix, or he's instantly better than Cook. You're right in saying the offence struggled for far more reasons than problems at Center. Yes Cook's taking more of a slating on here than he deserves. But Marv (or whoever) should never have put him back into the starting lineup so quickly when it was working with Robinson. We should've left him in until his standard dropped, not alter a line that was playing well.

And in the same way we cant pin our drop in offensive form on Cook, it'd be silly to place it all on Andy either. The offence as a whole didnt perform well in the last few games, not one guy.
Oh we couldn't run the ball during some of the games Robinson played in too. Casey Hampton destroyed him in the 1st Steelers Game.
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  #80  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:25 PM
TheCincinnatiKid TheCincinnatiKid is offline
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
We agree that Robinson and Cook are both better than Faine.

I don't place it all on Andy, it was the entire offense taking turns at making mistakes in critical situations.

Take the playoff game for example, Cook didn't under throw Marvin Jones for an INT with no pressure on him.

Cook didn't under throw AJ Green in the end zone that got broken up, with no pressure on him.

Cook didn't over throw a wide open AJ that would of been the go ahead score with no pressure on him.

Cooks man didn't come around and strip Andy of the football.

Cook didn't drop 3 passes.

Cook wasn't the guy that didn't get his head around on a hot read that got intercepted.

See what I mean?

Why all the clamoring for a new Center?

Thread after thread of it.
Yeah I get what you mean, and I agree, just you seem to think thats what im saying when im not . Im not even saying its a good idea to start Robinson over him or draft a new centre or whatever, just merely saying to my mind Robinson looked to be playing better individually as did the line as a whole, when he was in. We both agree Cook was far from the reason why we stalled so fast on offence, and im not saying Robinson would've changed it. But we never really gave him the chance, Cook was back in and playing at least half the game as soon as he was fit again. For me, play Robinson until the line turns a lil sour and then go back to Cook.

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
Oh we couldn't run the ball during some of the games Robinson played in too. Casey Hampton destroyed him in the 1st Steelers Game.
Indeed, we were terrible running the ball on the Steelers in both. What were BJGE's stats at Heinz Field? Actually dont remind me... lol. We rarely run the ball all that well on them. Fact is though, BJGE's big days came when Robinson was at Centre. Could be coincidence, could be the fact we were playing not so great defences... is still true though. Again, not saying he's the go to guy now though.
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  #81  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

Cook was bad before the injury...... the Bengals couldnt run the ball then either.
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  #82  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

Is Cook a good center? Probably not.
Is Cook as bad as some say? No.
Is Cook the reason we struggled like some suggest? HELL NO.
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  #83  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
Is Cook a good center? Probably not.
Is Cook as bad as some say? No.
Is Cook the reason we struggled like some suggest? HELL NO.
excellent analysis. Can't wait for your in depth followup
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  #84  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

The coaching staff deserves a lot of the blame as well.


We complain about Simmons when he lets Tate go out there and return kicks, even after fair catching on the 5 or trying to field one with a foot in the endzone. I aqgree completely that Simmons holds a good deal of blame in not breaking Tate of that habit and still utilizing him in spite of it.

Cook starting over Robinson is the coaching staff's fault, not Cooks. The blame should be on Alexander, Gruden, and Black Jesus for allowing Cook to be ahead of Robinson on the depth chart. It's not Kyle's fault he was starting ahead of Robinson and killing the chemistry of the o-line, that fault lies higher up the food chain.


I am not supporting Cook's terrible play, but instead liking it to the nightmare Selleck had in Mr. Baseball, where he kept racking up strikes and they would not let him strike out. Cook played like garbage, and we all know it. Nothing he could do about it, as the coaches were the ones keeping him out there.



Just a little perspective.
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  #85  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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excellent analysis. Can't wait for your in depth followup
Not up to your usual half-baked threads?

Clown.
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  #86  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by BengalRugby View Post
The coaching staff deserves a lot of the blame as well.


We complain about Simmons when he lets Tate go out there and return kicks, even after fair catching on the 5 or trying to field one with a foot in the endzone. I aqgree completely that Simmons holds a good deal of blame in not breaking Tate of that habit and still utilizing him in spite of it.

Cook starting over Robinson is the coaching staff's fault, not Cooks. The blame should be on Alexander, Gruden, and Black Jesus for allowing Cook to be ahead of Robinson on the depth chart. It's not Kyle's fault he was starting ahead of Robinson and killing the chemistry of the o-line, that fault lies higher up the food chain.


I am not supporting Cook's terrible play, but instead liking it to the nightmare Selleck had in Mr. Baseball, where he kept racking up strikes and they would not let him strike out. Cook played like garbage, and we all know it. Nothing he could do about it, as the coaches were the ones keeping him out there.



Just a little perspective.
Im not even convinced Robinson is any better than Cook.
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  #87  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Im not even convinced Robinson is any better than Cook.
Nor am I.

Could the position be upgraded over Cook? You bet.

Can this team win a Super Bowl with Cook at Center? You bet.

Upgrade if you want but don't spend a precious high draft pick on the position or drop a bunch of coin in FA for a new Center.

Buy or draft some playmakers.

Guys who score TDs or create turnovers/rush the QB.

That's what the team needs to get to the next level, not a new Center.

That and consistent QB play.
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  #88  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
Nor am I.

Could the position be upgraded over Cook? You bet.

Can this team win a Super Bowl with Cook at Center? You bet.

Upgrade if you want but don't spend a precious high draft pick on the position or drop a bunch of coin in FA for a new Center.

Buy or draft some playmakers.

Guys who score TDs or create turnovers/rush the QB.

That's what the team needs to get to the next level, not a new Center.

That and consistent QB play.
If a guy who can be a Mangold caliber center is available you take him. No question.
I think Frederick could have that potential. I would take him in the second.

We need to add veteran playmakers. We have enough youth.
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  #89  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
Nor am I.

Could the position be upgraded over Cook? You bet.

Can this team win a Super Bowl with Cook at Center? You bet.

Upgrade if you want but don't spend a precious high draft pick on the position or drop a bunch of coin in FA for a new Center.

Buy or draft some playmakers.

Guys who score TDs or create turnovers/rush the QB.

That's what the team needs to get to the next level, not a new Center.

That and consistent QB play.
I stopped after the second line. I apologize for being blunt, but without noticeable improvement... Cook is crap.
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  #90  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by berserkerone88 View Post
If a guy who can be a Mangold caliber center is available you take him. No question.
I think Frederick could have that potential. I would take him in the second.

We need to add veteran playmakers. We have enough youth.
Not sure I would take a Center in the 1st or 2nd.

Which would you rather have an very good center or very good RB,WR, DE, CB?

I would take the latter.

How many teams in the playoffs had "Elite" Centers?

Cook is good enough to win with.
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  #91  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by gardner30 View Post
Not sure I would take a Center in the 1st or 2nd.

Which would you rather have an very good center or very good RB,WR, DE, CB?

I would take the latter.

How many teams in the playoffs had "Elite" Centers?

Cook is good enough to win with.
Who is to say the very good C isnt the best available player?
Would you still pass then?
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  #92  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Who is to say the very good C isnt the best available player?
Would you still pass then?
It would be tough.

Where they are picking most of those guys aren't sure things so you draft on what they could be.

This team needs playmakers and they won't pay for them in Free Agency so you have to draft them.

I don't consider a Center a playmaker so I guess the answer is yes I would reach for the best available guy with playmaking ability.

It may be dumb but an elite Center isn't going to bump this team into the SuperBowl.
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  #93  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Does Kyle Cook deserve a pass

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
Oh we couldn't run the ball during some of the games Robinson played in too. Casey Hampton destroyed him in the 1st Steelers Game.
I guess, but in the first Steelers game we ran for 80 yards on 21 carries, 3.9 a shot. With Cook starting and playing the whole 2nd Steelers game - 14 yards on 16 carries.

On top of that the Steelers game that Cook played in week 16 the Bengals gave up 6 sacks. In the first Steelers game - zero sacks.

You may need a different example.
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  #94  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:13 PM
TheCincinnatiKid TheCincinnatiKid is offline
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

Im not too sure about drafting a Center too highly in the draft if thats what we chose to do... maybe we could with that extra 2nd rounder we have. Having that extra pick gives us the luxury of spreading the picks around different positions.

I dont think Center is one of the biggest needs on the team though, and you draft accordingly imo.
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  #95  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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Originally Posted by TheCincinnatiKid View Post
Im not too sure about drafting a Center too highly in the draft if thats what we chose to do... maybe we could with that extra 2nd rounder we have. Having that extra pick gives us the luxury of spreading the picks around different positions.

I dont think Center is one of the biggest needs on the team though, and you draft accordingly imo.

I think it would be alright if we did draft a center that high!
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  #96  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:50 PM
TheCincinnatiKid TheCincinnatiKid is offline
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Default Re: Not really Cook's fault

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I think it would be alright if we did draft a center that high!
Fair enough Just think we've got bigger needs than at centre and having two 2nd rounders can sort out our other issues pretty well.
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