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  #26  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by jj22 View Post
Looks like the D will remain the heart of this team.
Yes indeed. The defense will be the heart of the team, the special teams will be the brain, but I'm afraid the offense might be analogous to the large colon.
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering View Post
Yes indeed. The defense will be the heart of the team, the special teams will be the brain, but I'm afraid the offense might be analogous to the large colon.
True ! Let's hope 3rd season is a charm
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

Not bad news imo, I know a lotta people here wanted Gruden run outta town, and I wouldn't have been devastated to see him go. Keeping Zim is big, and as far as Marv/Gruden goes, well im sure we could do better, but for developments sake the positive is that this team will be on the same page as it has been... not gunna be a new guy come in and potentially stutter development.

That said it's not like we were doing great things on offence. But AT TIMES we ran well over a period of a few games and threw the ball well at the beginning of the year. So we have a passing game and a running game in our locker. We just need it to be shown a lot more often and preferably in the same game.
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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How about it?!!!! We really need to see a lot of different things next year.
I actually don't think the play calling was terrible. It was the execution that bothers me. So many dropped passes in crucial spots and Dalton needs to actually hit an open man instead of scrambling for a gain of 1 or 2. O-line needs to do a better job of pass pro too and maybe Andy won't be so damn scared in the pocket.....if you could even call it that for this team.
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  #30  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by TheCincinnatiKid View Post
Not bad news imo, I know a lotta people here wanted Gruden run outta town, and I wouldn't have been devastated to see him go. Keeping Zim is big, and as far as Marv/Gruden goes, well im sure we could do better, but for developments sake the positive is that this team will be on the same page as it has been... not gunna be a new guy come in and potentially stutter development.

That said it's not like we were doing great things on offence. But AT TIMES we ran well over a period of a few games and threw the ball well at the beginning of the year. So we have a passing game and a running game in our locker. We just need it to be shown a lot more often and preferably in the same game.
I too was frustrated by Gruden's playoff game plan but with the spontaneous anger gone I realize this isnt really bad news since a change in coordinators generally means a change in offense and when it comes to Dalton I'd rather stick to what works for him than risk seeing him struggle even worse learning a new system under someone else, of course everyone says we lack a #2 receiver but to be honest the future #2 receiver is already on this team with Jones and Sanu, the problem of course is they both got hurt during the year and as rookies they couldnt do things that seasoned veterans can do yet and depending how you look at it, a playoff team with a win now mandate cant afford to wait for them to develop like we had to this year and at the same time to be a playoff team with young receivers like Jones and Sanu is a limited indication of how well mainly Sanu contributed this year while he could with Jones slowly catching on later on

as your post said when we had the running game going this offense was as good as any in the league when it was rolling like it was in November and this is still being considered a 'young' team so despite the playoff struggles this team will only be better with experience
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  #31  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:31 PM
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bengals Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by Night's Watch View Post
--------The 6th Defense is returning! ---------- The 22nd Offense is returning!-----


I have said it once, I will say it again..... any coordinator who not once, but twice ignores their only legitimate star playmaker on offense for the entire first half of a game including once in the playoffs, deserves to be fired. Why do you think the Baltimore OC got fired mid-season? They were putting up good numbers, but he ignored their best player on offense and lost some really easy to win games because of it. So what happens? They get to the playoffs and Ray Rice touches it 46 times in two wins.

If the Lions gameplanned not passing to Calvin Johnson for 35 minutes of a playoff loss, don't you think someone would get fired?
If the Cardinals gameplanned not passing to Larry Fitzgerald for 35 minutes of a playoff loss, don't you think someone would get fired?
Jay Gruden gameplans not passing to AJ Green for 35 minutes of a playoff loss... also takes his offense from 20th to 22nd... and some people are like "Phew, thankfully we get consistency for his offense. We need more talented players though." What's the point of more talented players if he refuses to use the ones he currently has???

Consistency is good with coaches, but not when those coaches have consistently led you to the bottom half of the league.
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  #32  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

8-8 missed playoffs. 2 long bombs to AJ for ints in final game.
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  #33  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
--------The 6th Defense is returning! ---------- The 22nd Offense is returning!-----


I have said it once, I will say it again..... any coordinator who not once, but twice ignores their only legitimate star playmaker on offense for the entire first half of a game including once in the playoffs, deserves to be fired. Why do you think the Baltimore OC got fired mid-season? They were putting up good numbers, but he ignored their best player on offense and lost some really easy to win games because of it. So what happens? They get to the playoffs and Ray Rice touches it 46 times in two wins.

If the Lions gameplanned not passing to Calvin Johnson for 35 minutes of a playoff loss, don't you think someone would get fired?
If the Cardinals gameplanned not passing to Larry Fitzgerald for 35 minutes of a playoff loss, don't you think someone would get fired?
Jay Gruden gameplans not passing to AJ Green for 35 minutes of a playoff loss... also takes his offense from 20th to 22nd... and some people are like "Phew, thankfully we get consistency for his offense. We need more talented players though." What's the point of more talented players if he refuses to use the ones he currently has???

Consistency is good with coaches, but not when those coaches have consistently led you to the bottom half of the league.
The Bengals had 13 plays on offense in the 1st half. Gresham had 2 drops stopping drives. Point being is Gruden drew up plays early to get us going on offense, but the player did not execute them. They share equally in the poor display in the first half of that game. Throwing it all on Gruden is just wrong in my opinion.
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  #34  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by Luvnit2 View Post
The Bengals had 13 plays on offense in the 1st half. Gresham had 2 drops stopping drives. Point being is Gruden drew up plays early to get us going on offense, but the player did not execute them. They share equally in the poor display in the first half of that game. Throwing it all on Gruden is just wrong in my opinion.
Yeah, the players definitely didn't execute.

If Gresham catches that ball on the first drive on third down, it's a whole different game because maybe we score and set the tone for the whole game. At the very least, we'd have confidence and be able to pin them deep in their own territory.

If Dalton doesn't overthrow AJ in the endzone, we likely win.

I wasn't happy with a lot of Gruden's play calling, as I noted earlier, but this loss isn't on him.
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  #35  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:57 PM
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bengals Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by Luvnit2 View Post
The Bengals had 13 plays on offense in the 1st half. Gresham had 2 drops stopping drives. Point being is Gruden drew up plays early to get us going on offense, but the player did not execute them. They share equally in the poor display in the first half of that game. Throwing it all on Gruden is just wrong in my opinion.
13 plays, none of which for AJ Green... then 35 minutes into the game, they throw to AJ Green and then again.. and POW, their offense moves for the first time that game, and they get the first offensive points for the Bengals. Coincidence? No. I don't care if they only had 5 plays in the first half. 0 of them being to AJ Green, the best offensive player on your team, and best WR in the AFC, is unforgivable.

AJ Green 2013- 1,350 yards

Gresham/Hawkins/Jones/Tate/Whalen/Charles/BJGE/Peerman 2013- 1,949 yards.

So every single pass catcher on the Bengals roster at the time of the playoffs (TE/WR/R only combined for 599 yards more than AJ Green... but the OC thinks it'd be a good idea not to throw to him at all....

And you're okay with that?
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
13 plays, none of which for AJ Green... then 35 minutes into the game, they throw to AJ Green and then again.. and POW, their offense moves for the first time that game, and they get the first offensive points for the Bengals. Coincidence? No. I don't care if they only had 5 plays in the first half. 0 of them being to AJ Green, the best offensive player on your team, and best WR in the AFC, is unforgivable.

AJ Green 2013- 1,350 yards

Gresham/Hawkins/Jones/Tate/Whalen/Charles/BJGE/Peerman 2013- 1,949 yards.

So every single pass catcher on the Bengals roster at the time of the playoffs (TE/WR/R only combined for 599 yards more than AJ Green... but the OC thinks it'd be a good idea not to throw to him at all....

And you're okay with that?
I don't believe iin over reacting when mistakes are made. If I were you, I would be firing the coaching staff, firing AJ for his nine drops thsi year and firing Gresham for his drops. I would fire Reggie Nelson for a blown coverage in the Browns game and on and on.

I am not Gruden a pass for the playoff game, but as has been said, if Andy throws a better pass to AJ Green we win that game possibly. So firing a guy working with a bunch of rookies and second years guys is a tad of a stretch in my humble opinion.

P.S. I hope your boss does not fire you if you have a bad day.
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  #37  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

AJ Green is not happy about this news. But he'll **** it up and soldier forward.
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  #38  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by Big D from logan View Post
Why does Gruden never run any type of hurry up offense other than at the end of the game.
sure he does....lol

you cant do it a lot when you have musical chairs at WR and C with Rookies in there
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  #39  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:40 AM
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bengals Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by Luvnit2 View Post
I don't believe iin over reacting when mistakes are made. If I were you, I would be firing the coaching staff, firing AJ for his nine drops thsi year and firing Gresham for his drops. I would fire Reggie Nelson for a blown coverage in the Browns game and on and on.

I am not Gruden a pass for the playoff game, but as has been said, if Andy throws a better pass to AJ Green we win that game possibly. So firing a guy working with a bunch of rookies and second years guys is a tad of a stretch in my humble opinion.

P.S. I hope your boss does not fire you if you have a bad day.
I never once suggested firing anyone outside of Gruden or Lewis as far as coaches go, nor do I think anything against Green, or Nelson, and I have been defending Gresham against all the people who do want him traded... but thanks for trying to depict me as some crazed fire-crazy fan and telling me what I would do (apparently) rather than address the issue.

The point is, it wasn't just once. The first Steelers game Gruden didn't have a pass go to AJ Green for the entire first half of the game.. and he specifically made a comment in an interview that he said "Self, that's not very smart, don't do that again." or something of that sort..... THEN he did the exact same thing in the playoffs.

So it's not like it was a one time mistake, though I would hardly classify that as a "mistake" rather than a horrible horrible gameplan. It happened twice, in one season, and both were losses. Surprise.

Combine that with the 20th and 22nd offense in the league his two years, and yes, I am not very impressed with the guy. Can't exactly say I am excited to have him back in Cincinnati.
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  #40  
Old 01-18-2013, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by THE PISTONS View Post
Its funny that fans want Zimmer as our HC after he has been passed over for how many jobs? Either other teams are missing something or we are...
My buddy is a Browns fan, and he was p!$$ed that they didn't hire Zim. Mark that down as one who thinks his team is missing something.

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Originally Posted by Fan_in_Kettering View Post
Yes indeed. The defense will be the heart of the team, the special teams will be the brain, but I'm afraid the offense might be analogous to the large colon.

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  #41  
Old 01-18-2013, 07:22 AM
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I am glad to have Zimmer and Gruden back..I think they are both very good for our young players...Mike Brown has to spend money this year...extend the core of the team...sign a couple key FA and let's roll

The simple fact is as far as game planning and execution is that the players need to make plays and catch passes thrown their way and Marvin Lewis needs to keep his mouth shut and let Gruden call the entire game..I can hear it now on the sidelines..."ok Jay..we are up by one with 5 minutes to go...time to real it in...go run, run, pass...the D will pick it up from there..."....I guarantee you will never hear Billicheck say that...it would be "ok, we are up by one with 5 minutes to go, let's score 4 more times now"

I know, the Patriots are different but this is now an offensive league...fix the offense and score as many points as possible...the Defense will be fine

of the 12 teams that made the playoffs, 11 were in the top 16 in points per game, only Indy was not coming in at 18....11 of the top 12 are playoff teams except New Orleans..

I am going to change an old line...Offense wins in the Playoffs...Defense wins in the AFCN
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  #42  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013


Sweet....Welcome Back Zim.

Jay, this is your last chance to open up your playbook and do something creative and awesome.
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  #43  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:51 AM
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bengals Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by TheLeonardLeap View Post
13 plays, none of which for AJ Green... then 35 minutes into the game, they throw to AJ Green and then again.. and POW, their offense moves for the first time that game, and they get the first offensive points for the Bengals. Coincidence? No. I don't care if they only had 5 plays in the first half. 0 of them being to AJ Green, the best offensive player on your team, and best WR in the AFC, is unforgivable.

AJ Green 2013- 1,350 yards

Gresham/Hawkins/Jones/Tate/Whalen/Charles/BJGE/Peerman 2013- 1,949 yards.

So every single pass catcher on the Bengals roster at the time of the playoffs (TE/WR/R only combined for 599 yards more than AJ Green... but the OC thinks it'd be a good idea not to throw to him at all....

And you're okay with that?
It seems to me our team constantly gets outcoached in cruical games and i feel they struggle to call the correct plays when it counts.In other words , they simply get outcoached.The two best coaches to call a game week in and out is shuan peyton of new orleans and bill bellicick of the pats.Hey, marvin and jay, you have 4 downs to work with, use the 4th and 1 to get a first down, keep your offense on field and get a ton more offensive snaps. I feel going into 2013 our team will struggle to make the playoffs.You just know the stoolers will be strong again, and i just hope this staff doesn't go the cheap route and bring in players from other teams that were cut for a reason.It just never works. Spend money and go get the best.
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  #44  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

I wish we could get Hue Jackson as our OC... I think he would be great here.
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  #45  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:57 AM
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bengals Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by TheCincinnatiKid View Post
Not bad news imo, I know a lotta people here wanted Gruden run outta town, and I wouldn't have been devastated to see him go. Keeping Zim is big, and as far as Marv/Gruden goes, well im sure we could do better, but for developments sake the positive is that this team will be on the same page as it has been... not gunna be a new guy come in and potentially stutter development.

That said it's not like we were doing great things on offence. But AT TIMES we ran well over a period of a few games and threw the ball well at the beginning of the year. So we have a passing game and a running game in our locker. We just need it to be shown a lot more often and preferably in the same game.
A big unanswered question going into 2013!!Does anyone on here feel like our current qb is the big time leader of this team and why?? I am not saying he is or isn't. I am holding out to make that call until i see what he does with this team going forward.I see alot in him i like, but i would like to see more leadership skills come out. I feel he can be very reserved at times, and one questions if his teammates feel he is the man.just asking everyones opinions and why you feel the way you do.I really want him to be great.
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  #46  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

As I've said elsewhere...

GRUDEN MUST GO.

He is AWFUL.

The ONLY stat that matters is that Gruden LOSES to good teams.

1. He cannot move the ball and score points against good teams. Look at Cincy's offensive output vs Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Absolutely wretched. The Giants game now looks like a fluke. The offense did okay against Denver until the 4th quarter when Cincy just needed first downs (not even touchdowns) and couldn't get them. The egg laid vs Miami made me nauseous. The second half of the Cleveland loss made me puke.

2. Gruden is WORSE every time he faces a familiar opponent (usually meaning the second time he faces someone). Good grief, Cincy had just ONE meaningful play in Pittsburgh territory in the win--and that was a pass to get into field goal range. Gruden only beat Balt because our backups played better than Balt's backups. And look at Houston: 19 points, then 10 points, then 6 offensive points. (The only teams' starters that Gruden has beaten in a second meeting were Cleveland in '11, and the offense didn't have a lead until a FG when the clock expired, and Jacksonville in '12--and they were 2-12.)

3. Dalton and Green are NOT progressing. They played in December and January as if they were raw rookies in preseason games. Just completely out of synch. Second seasons are supposed to be much better but this one wasn't when it mattered. There is NO EXCUSE for this passing game falling off a cliff in the second half of '11 and '12. Plus, the pass blocking inexplicably became absolutely atrocious after having a solid stretch of good performances.

4. The IDIOTIC gameplan in the playoffs. Especially that Gruden stuck with it in the second qtr after it failed so miserably in the first qtr. Gruden looked like this was the first game plan he ever made.

5. Gruden CANNOT make in-game adjustments. If his plan doesn't work from the get-go, he has no counter. (If a team is successful getting pressure on Dalton, Gruden STILL calls 5 step drops with long routes--just stupid. And when he calls a screen--that one time in a million--the play is usually botched because he calls them so rarely.) If his plan works, but the other team adjusts to stop it, then Gruden has no counter-adjustment. He simply cannot perform at this level. We've lost way too many games, especially two playoff games (rare gems for this team) because of Gruden. The defense plays its guts out. It deserves better from the offense.

IT'S NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER.

Either (A) Dalton is a good franchise quarterback hamstrung by bad coaching or (B ) Gruden is a good coach and Dalton is a bad quarterback. Why? Because if it's (C) Dalton and Gruden are both performing well, then (D) they both stink and BOTH need replaced. I think it's A.

I am OUTRAGED that Gruden still has his job. I am hoping that Mike Brown didn't fire Gruden simply to make him more attractive to other teams. Otherwise we have yet another incidence of MB's incompetence as a General Manager.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:03 AM
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bengals Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by Luvnit2 View Post
The Bengals had 13 plays on offense in the 1st half. Gresham had 2 drops stopping drives. Point being is Gruden drew up plays early to get us going on offense, but the player did not execute them. They share equally in the poor display in the first half of that game. Throwing it all on Gruden is just wrong in my opinion.
Again, offensive coaching staff is guillty of calling a bad game.This has went on for years.It seems like they make this stuff up as they go and it never works.Its maddening really.I feel jay and company are learning as they go and have no solid plan. Not using aj for half a game is nuts.There is no excuse for this, but they tried to make us believe there was. Just crazy, man.And a big joke on the fans.
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  #48  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by fortyyearfan View Post
Again, offensive coaching staff is guillty of calling a bad game.This has went on for years.It seems like they make this stuff up as they go and it never works.Its maddening really.I feel jay and company are learning as they go and have no solid plan. Not using aj for half a game is nuts.There is no excuse for this, but they tried to make us believe there was. Just crazy, man.And a big joke on the fans.
Really it was just injuries on a really young Offense that doesnt have a lot of tried and tested Depth.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

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Originally Posted by fumetti View Post
As I've said elsewhere...

GRUDEN MUST GO.

He is AWFUL.

The ONLY stat that matters is that Gruden LOSES to good teams.

1. He cannot move the ball and score points against good teams. Look at Cincy's offensive output vs Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Absolutely wretched. The Giants game now looks like a fluke. The offense did okay against Denver until the 4th quarter when Cincy just needed first downs (not even touchdowns) and couldn't get them. The egg laid vs Miami made me nauseous. The second half of the Cleveland loss made me puke.

2. Gruden is WORSE every time he faces a familiar opponent (usually meaning the second time he faces someone). Good grief, Cincy had just ONE meaningful play in Pittsburgh territory in the win--and that was a pass to get into field goal range. Gruden only beat Balt because our backups played better than Balt's backups. And look at Houston: 19 points, then 10 points, then 6 offensive points. (The only teams' starters that Gruden has beaten in a second meeting were Cleveland in '11, and the offense didn't have a lead until a FG when the clock expired, and Jacksonville in '12--and they were 2-12.)

3. Dalton and Green are NOT progressing. They played in December and January as if they were raw rookies in preseason games. Just completely out of synch. Second seasons are supposed to be much better but this one wasn't when it mattered. There is NO EXCUSE for this passing game falling off a cliff in the second half of '11 and '12. Plus, the pass blocking inexplicably became absolutely atrocious after having a solid stretch of good performances.

4. The IDIOTIC gameplan in the playoffs. Especially that Gruden stuck with it in the second qtr after it failed so miserably in the first qtr. Gruden looked like this was the first game plan he ever made.

5. Gruden CANNOT make in-game adjustments. If his plan doesn't work from the get-go, he has no counter. (If a team is successful getting pressure on Dalton, Gruden STILL calls 5 step drops with long routes--just stupid. And when he calls a screen--that one time in a million--the play is usually botched because he calls them so rarely.) If his plan works, but the other team adjusts to stop it, then Gruden has no counter-adjustment. He simply cannot perform at this level. We've lost way too many games, especially two playoff games (rare gems for this team) because of Gruden. The defense plays its guts out. It deserves better from the offense.

IT'S NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER.

Either (A) Dalton is a good franchise quarterback hamstrung by bad coaching or (B ) Gruden is a good coach and Dalton is a bad quarterback. Why? Because if it's (C) Dalton and Gruden are both performing well, then (D) they both stink and BOTH need replaced. I think it's A.

I am OUTRAGED that Gruden still has his job. I am hoping that Mike Brown didn't fire Gruden simply to make him more attractive to other teams. Otherwise we have yet another incidence of MB's incompetence as a General Manager.
I agree. Once you've defended Gruden's playbook once you've got it. Gruden may be a good OC in the future when he gets some experience, but if we really wanted to take that next step we needed an OC with some experience. One who knows how to study and gameplan a multiple defenses, one who knows how to call plays in big games, knows how to change it up when facing a team twice a season, a familiar foe. I don't blame Gruden for this, he's just as new to the league as Dalton/Green and all the rest of the young offense. We just needed someone who has been there and been around the league long enough to know what it takes to field a productive offense.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:03 AM
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neek neek is online now
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Default Re: Gruden, Zimmer back in 2013

This is good news IMO. This year will be telling. If we don't fill the needed holes in the off season, and get reliable weapons around Andy, it won't matter who the OC is. No more of this Tate/Binns BS. Get a damn speed back, and make sure Andy improves his consistency and deep ball.
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