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Old 01-18-2013, 03:42 AM
Ian Demagii Ian Demagii is offline
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Default Realistic view of the receiving corp

It is time to look at the receiving corp in depth.

AJ Green-the all pro-bets in the league not named Megatron!

now it gets more dicey:

Mohamed Sanu-possession type receiver who lacks deeps speed and quick moves (to get deep by using a double move) He will prove to be a good 3 or 4 WR, but not much more. This is a concensus of many scouting reports.

Marvin Jones-timed at 4.46 in the forty his best time was a blistering 4.36 he has a nice vert of 33 inches and good size and strength at 6'2 200. (Strongest WR in the draft). Jones has a lot of raw talent but is very raw suffering from a college QB with a scatter gun arm, and not faring much better with Andy Dalton. Route rubbing must be taught, and he is not ready to step in and start from the get go. Long term he could be a very valueable player.

Andrew Hawkins-at 5'7 his size is a detriment as an every down WR. He certainly is dynamic in the slot and plays should be devised to get him the ball in space. He has blazing speed 4.34 40 and amazing quickness.

Whalen and Tate-not impressed by Whalen and frankly want Tate waived. Whalen is Sanu-Sanu is Whalen. Frankly Whalen might be quicker and have more vertical upside. Whalen needs some playing time and different bals thrown his way and then a judgement should be made to keep him or let him walk.

This leads me to a Free Agent or Draft pick should be used to bring in a more dynamic receiver. I would certainly look at Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings. There do not seem to be many game breakers in this years draft at WR.

Jermaine Gresham-has amazing tools-he has lapses of concentration and suffers from too much wanting to make a big play-This needs to be fixed by the OC and position coach or he will walk at the end of his deal.

Orson Charles-probably too small to be a hand in the dirt TE at 6'3 250 and had a disappointing 40 time 4.75-He seems like he plays faster but again more balls need to come his way to see.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

The more I think about the more I think we need an early WR. I really hate saying that ... But we need a difference maker.

Tate, jones, are avg at best

Hawk and Sanu are ok to keep and develop.

Whalen is not what we need.

Our history with vets is not good. Plus it's gonna be big money. A rookie will be cheaper and fit in better. I don't know who is out there Cept for the Clemson kid. And the Tennessee kid with issues.

We need a difference maker on this offense and we can get a back later
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:25 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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The more I think about the more I think we need an early WR. I really hate saying that ... But we need a difference maker.

Tate, jones, are avg at best

Hawk and Sanu are ok to keep and develop.

Whalen is not what we need.

Our history with vets is not good. Plus it's gonna be big money. A rookie will be cheaper and fit in better. I don't know who is out there Cept for the Clemson kid. And the Tennessee kid with issues.

We need a difference maker on this offense and we can get a back later
We already have one. His name is AJ Green
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:23 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

We definitely need another starting WR to go with AJ.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:04 AM
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bengals Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Demagii View Post
It is time to look at the receiving corp in depth.

AJ Green-the all pro-bets in the league not named Megatron!

now it gets more dicey:

Mohamed Sanu-possession type receiver who lacks deeps speed and quick moves (to get deep by using a double move) He will prove to be a good 3 or 4 WR, but not much more. This is a concensus of many scouting reports.

Marvin Jones-timed at 4.46 in the forty his best time was a blistering 4.36 he has a nice vert of 33 inches and good size and strength at 6'2 200. (Strongest WR in the draft). Jones has a lot of raw talent but is very raw suffering from a college QB with a scatter gun arm, and not faring much better with Andy Dalton. Route rubbing must be taught, and he is not ready to step in and start from the get go. Long term he could be a very valueable player.

Andrew Hawkins-at 5'7 his size is a detriment as an every down WR. He certainly is dynamic in the slot and plays should be devised to get him the ball in space. He has blazing speed 4.34 40 and amazing quickness.

Whalen and Tate-not impressed by Whalen and frankly want Tate waived. Whalen is Sanu-Sanu is Whalen. Frankly Whalen might be quicker and have more vertical upside. Whalen needs some playing time and different bals thrown his way and then a judgement should be made to keep him or let him walk.

This leads me to a Free Agent or Draft pick should be used to bring in a more dynamic receiver. I would certainly look at Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings. There do not seem to be many game breakers in this years draft at WR.

Jermaine Gresham-has amazing tools-he has lapses of concentration and suffers from too much wanting to make a big play-This needs to be fixed by the OC and position coach or he will walk at the end of his deal.

Orson Charles-probably too small to be a hand in the dirt TE at 6'3 250 and had a disappointing 40 time 4.75-He seems like he plays faster but again more balls need to come his way to see.
I would have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Sanu. I have no doubt he could be an effective #2 right now. He is a physical WR that understands the gamd of football and his strengths. He knows how to use his size and his body to shield the ball.

Separation is not only about speed and quickness. It is also of precise route running, selling the route, and anticipation. All of which he is good at. As well, success can have much to do with how bad a player wants it and I believe this is a kid that wants it.

People talk about drafting another WR as if they will step in and be like AJ. It is much more common for WRs not to be difference makers until their second or third season than it is for them to make an impact as rookies. This leads us to FA where you did not even mention a guy that is probably the best fit for this team and that is Brian Hartline. Wallace is going to want to be the man somewhere and it seems many are ignoring this simple fact.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

I think one or the other of Cordarrelle Patterson and Justin Hunter could really help this team. Patterson could double as the new return guy replacing Tate and still be a threat at WR, and Hunter could be a nice compliment on the opposite side as AJ Green. Both guys were deadly at UT this past season and both have entered the draft. I would like to see Hunter in stripes because he is the more complete WR, but Patterson could be what the coaches think Tate is. Yes I am a little biased because I am a Vols fan, but what I saw out of them this past season was remarkable.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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I think one or the other of Cordarrelle Patterson and Justin Hunter could really help this team. Patterson could double as the new return guy replacing Tate and still be a threat at WR, and Hunter could be a nice compliment on the opposite side as AJ Green. Both guys were deadly at UT this past season and both have entered the draft. I would like to see Hunter in stripes because he is the more complete WR, but Patterson could be what the coaches think Tate is. Yes I am a little biased because I am a Vols fan, but what I saw out of them this past season was remarkable.

I know I have a lot to learn about the current Bengals do to me being a brand new fan but I did pay them attention this season which led me to why I am a fan. Well anything good could help this team out do to they didn't have potent weapons in the their playoff loss this year... Anything to help us be more potent on offense would be improvement.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:08 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

Cincy started out 2012 with one good receiver and a lot of promise.

Cincy ended 2012 with one good receiver, one potentially good receiver on IR, and a lot of disappointment.

Other than Sanu, none of Cincy's other WRs made the grade. Each had flashes but they could not sustain that level of performance.

So we enter 2013 the same as 2012... with one good receiver and a lot of high expectations about receivers that haven't proved anything yet. Sanu might be the exception, but his injury leaves the jury out on him.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

I'd have to disagree with your assessment of Sanu as well. I think it was pretty clear from his play that he is better than the scouting reports suggested, and it was clear that the Bengals passing offense suffered once he was on IR. To say Whalen is Sanu and Sanu is Whalen is assanine. One was a threat from in the slot, out wide, or lining up in the backfield. The other one was a special teamer.

But here's the thing, whether Sanu can be a viable #2 receiver or not, it is the team's responsibility to put the best possible players on the field. If the team can upgrade at the #2 spot, then they should absolutely do it.

I'd be interested in bringing in a vet like Jennings. Bowe is going to want #1 money and he's not in AJ's class. Wallace has one trick and I don't think that trick fits Dalton's skill set or Gruden's offense very well. Plus, I don't think the Bengals need another receiving threat who struggles to catch the ball. Jennings could provide experience to a very young receiving corp at a reasonable price.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

I wouldn't use a high draft pick on another WR. I would sign a good NUMBER 2 guy and see how things play out in preseason. This team is not in a position to spend an arm and a leg on a #2 WR even with the cap space so signing the biggest WR free agent wouldn't be prudent either.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

I'm still on the Hartline wagon for adding another reciever. I'd like our first 3 picks of the draft to look like this: 1.)SS 2a.)LB 2b.) HB. This way we don't waste a draft pick at WR when they really aren't that good this year.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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Cincy started out 2012 with one good receiver and a lot of promise.

Cincy ended 2012 with one good receiver, one potentially good receiver on IR, and a lot of disappointment.

Other than Sanu, none of Cincy's other WRs made the grade. Each had flashes but they could not sustain that level of performance.

So we enter 2013 the same as 2012... with one good receiver and a lot of high expectations about receivers that haven't proved anything yet. Sanu might be the exception, but his injury leaves the jury out on him.

I think Jones had a lot of promise too. He put together some good games at the end of the year. I know of two homerun balls that should have been TD's and the other jump ball in the endzone that Dalton underthrew him badly all should have been TD's and big gains. If dalton makes those throws, whether it was poor protection by the line, poor deep ball accuracy, whatever it was it didn't have anything to do with Jones not being open. He is a keeper and will be a good #2 mark my words. I say he has 700-800 yards next year.

He averaged 30 yards a game in the games he started. He needs only 10 more yards a game to make that range. He can surely do that, right?
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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I would have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Sanu. I have no doubt he could be an effective #2 right now. He is a physical WR that understands the gamd of football and his strengths. He knows how to use his size and his body to shield the ball.

Separation is not only about speed and quickness. It is also of precise route running, selling the route, and anticipation. All of which he is good at. As well, success can have much to do with how bad a player wants it and I believe this is a kid that wants it.

People talk about drafting another WR as if they will step in and be like AJ. It is much more common for WRs not to be difference makers until their second or third season than it is for them to make an impact as rookies. This leads us to FA where you did not even mention a guy that is probably the best fit for this team and that is Brian Hartline. Wallace is going to want to be the man somewhere and it seems many are ignoring this simple fact.
I am in total agreement with your view of Sanu and Hartline. I am also in agreement with others that Jones has a chance to get better. I would NOT throw him to the curb just yet.

I think one of the Bengals dilemmas (after re-upping Andre and Geno) is their Free Agency and Draft strategies. Let see Free Agency comes first and their needs seem to be LB, RB, WR, S, and possibly C.
The Draft is loaded with LBs and WRs. Think I'd go about it this way: Free Agency - RB and Safety. Draft - LB and WR early on. I also think we need a some O Line depth early on .... not sure whether this is a C/G or G/T. Bottomline - I think we need a couple prime quality pieces on Offense to make a go of it next year. Not alot but a couple of softspots that we need to address and address with prime quality and not just run-of-the-mill guys. For example RB - someone with speed and pass-catching ability like Reggie Bush, and WR - someone like Dwayne Bowe or Brian Hartline. I'll take Gresham, Green, Sanu and BJGE and Draft picks to go with these guys and then I think we'll have a Top 10 Offense, rather than Bottom 10. Assuming Dalton is who Marvin, Gruden et al says he is.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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I'd have to disagree with your assessment of Sanu as well. I think it was pretty clear from his play that he is better than the scouting reports suggested, and it was clear that the Bengals passing offense suffered once he was on IR. To say Whalen is Sanu and Sanu is Whalen is assanine. One was a threat from in the slot, out wide, or lining up in the backfield. The other one was a special teamer.

But here's the thing, whether Sanu can be a viable #2 receiver or not, it is the team's responsibility to put the best possible players on the field. If the team can upgrade at the #2 spot, then they should absolutely do it.

I'd be interested in bringing in a vet like Jennings. Bowe is going to want #1 money and he's not in AJ's class. Wallace has one trick and I don't think that trick fits Dalton's skill set or Gruden's offense very well. Plus, I don't think the Bengals need another receiving threat who struggles to catch the ball. Jennings could provide experience to a very young receiving corp at a reasonable price.
Whalen and Sanu are the same TYPE of receivers; guys that cna play in and out, have glue for hands, and get separation.

Whalen isn't as versatile, and is better in the slot. Sanu you can put in the backfield, QB, and he's better outside.

Whalen is a guy that should be used a ton more. Tate got almost 400 snaps and got lucky with what he did, while playing like total ****, while Whalen gets 97 snaps, and makes some great catches, while getting separation.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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I'm still on the Hartline wagon for adding another reciever. I'd like our first 3 picks of the draft to look like this: 1.)SS 2a.)LB 2b.) HB. This way we don't waste a draft pick at WR when they really aren't that good this year.
I would be OK with your idea on the first 3 picks for sure.

I would just say it would be best to get the BPA (out of S,LB,H in the first 3 picks.

For WR we need an immediate impact so a #2 vet would be ideal and Hartline would be a great signing.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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I would be OK with your idea on the first 3 picks for sure.

I would just say it would be best to get the BPA (out of S,LB,H in the first 3 picks.

For WR we need an immediate impact so a #2 vet would be ideal and Hartline would be a great signing.
We need help in the secondary at S and CB. we need depth @ LB and on the o-line.
BJGE did fine and peerman had a 7 Yard avg. We just need to not be so darn predictable and maybe run from more than one formation???
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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I would have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Sanu. I have no doubt he could be an effective #2 right now. He is a physical WR that understands the gamd of football and his strengths. He knows how to use his size and his body to shield the ball.

Separation is not only about speed and quickness. It is also of precise route running, selling the route, and anticipation. All of which he is good at. As well, success can have much to do with how bad a player wants it and I believe this is a kid that wants it.

People talk about drafting another WR as if they will step in and be like AJ. It is much more common for WRs not to be difference makers until their second or third season than it is for them to make an impact as rookies. This leads us to FA where you did not even mention a guy that is probably the best fit for this team and that is Brian Hartline. Wallace is going to want to be the man somewhere and it seems many are ignoring this simple fact.
I would not at ALL mind having Hartline opposite AJ. He would be a great fit here in our system. ALSO, I also agree with Sanu being a good fit as well! I was not sold on Sanu when we drafted him. I thought it was dumb. My father told me he was going to be a difference maker and i was not at ALL sold on that. Truth be told, when he stepped in and started for us, our offense was CLICKING! And you cant say it was coincidence, because he was making huge 3rd down converstions for us (see how that all went to ****) and he was also catching CLUTCH TDS for us when Dalton was in the Red zone. I like our receiving core. WR take a few years to develop. i think too many of us got spoiled with Green! (Truth be told, Green does have flaws. No one seems to talk about how he tailors off at the end of the season. did it this year and last )


Any who..... I say either grab Hartline in FA or let Jones and Sanu develop. We dont need to make huge changes here. This offense is young. let them develop!!
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:14 PM
Ian Demagii Ian Demagii is offline
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

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I would have to seriously disagree with your assessment of Sanu. I have no doubt he could be an effective #2 right now. He is a physical WR that understands the gamd of football and his strengths. He knows how to use his size and his body to shield the ball.

Separation is not only about speed and quickness. It is also of precise route running, selling the route, and anticipation. All of which he is good at. As well, success can have much to do with how bad a player wants it and I believe this is a kid that wants it.

People talk about drafting another WR as if they will step in and be like AJ. It is much more common for WRs not to be difference makers until their second or third season than it is for them to make an impact as rookies. This leads us to FA where you did not even mention a guy that is probably the best fit for this team and that is Brian Hartline. Wallace is going to want to be the man somewhere and it seems many are ignoring this simple fact.
Sorry OSUfan but Sanu will only get free via a scheme, he lacks top end speed to run by defenders,and lacks quick feet and swivel hips to separate ala Wes Welker or Steve Largent (to get deep). One report specifically cited that he will not get free via double moves and /or fakes. This is pretty damning. Also his route running was cited as "lazy." He is cited as an effective red zone target, and "first down getter."

I dont want Hartline as a top end free agent-that's why I did not mention him. Take him over Sanu-OH HELL YES! Offer him top tear money to come here, no. I frankly like Hartline a great deal, but not for tear one money, nor do I think Miami is going to part with him. Word out of Green Bay is Jennings is out, and the Steelers would like to move on from Wallace.

Greg Jennings would be my first choice, but I think he will be too rich even for Mikey. Wallace's speed scares people and might be right up "the Redeemers" alley. He might want to even up with his old team-double bonus.

These are the 5 or so assessments I have read this week as I pondered this situation.

Marvin Jones totally different he has a world of upside but is much more raw.

Ian
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:24 PM
Ian Demagii Ian Demagii is offline
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

You who are counting Jones in with Tate are kidding yourselves. Kid has loads of talent! He is just very raw, even so, he was getting open. He has great seed , great vert, and very good hands-he needs time to develop ala Chad Johnson.

To the poster who said Wallace isnt a fit because of the QB (Dalton), OK, I concede your point. Props to you.

My main idea is to give AJ room to terrorize opponents, but even Wallace's speed is a paper tiger given that Daltons deep ball *ucks. I guess the same arguement might be made for Marvin Jones. Dalton completes deep balls only because his is throwing to AJ Green, and one else not Named Megatron or maybe Fitzgerald is going to have problems even if their extreme speed get them behind the secondary. The balls will probably be under of over thrown...Would Wallace adjust? No he would keep running...

The Hartline idea is looking better to me too, he runs routes that Dalton maybe able to complete; he also is great on double moves and fakes. The problem with him is Miami is stupid if they let him walk.

Ian
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

I said last year that I didn't buy the hype of Binns and Tate. Had quite a few arguments over it.

Now I'm going to say that I don't have much more faith in Sanu and Jones.

I think they will be good depth guys (especially Sanu), but we need a good veteran.

Someone who can step in right away and be someone Andy can trust and who can take advantage of the coverage on AJ.

As for Hawkins, I respect his skills, but the dude is 5'7".

I don't know how many times I saw Andy put the ball near him and Hawk just couldn't get to it bacause of his tiny range.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

I want Tate gone just so I don't have to pee my pants everytime he's back deep for a punt return, especially inside the 10.

People that say Sanu doesn't have speed, ok, but why does he need it? He's our possession receiver, so we're not expecting him to take the top off of defenses.

Jones is coming along and will improve as he gets more polished.

Charles is more of a 4.6 guy, which isn't slow for a TE, and his blocking can improve with a bit of coaching and work. He's not as tall as most TEs, so the low center of gravity will allow him to get good leverage on blocks, and he's great up the seam and as a receiver in general.

Baby Hawk is a good slot guy and just to mix it up.

I like our receivers.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

Does Marvin Jones remind anyone of a younger poor mans version of Laverneous Coles?
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

The Bengals need a WR that can be ready to make plays Week 1,not Week 6 or 7.
They are lacking that WR that is explosive in that 15-20 yard range. Take a skinny post route and take it the distance.
A.J Green is a premier deep threat. Deep being the key word. But when teams park 2 safeties back deep
you need a WR that can burn them across the middle consistently.
Hawkins can do it a couple a year at best.But his 5'7 size hurts when Andy even overthrows him by a little.
He doesn't have a big catching radius either.
I would not be opposed to the Bengals taking Patterson or Hunter. Both are explosive players. Patterson
can even run the ball and go the distance and showed a couple times in a dreadful Vol season.
another guy to keep your eye on is DeAndre Hopkins out of Clemson.
the Bengals have the luxury of drafting a WR in RD 1.
the offense needs someone that has the same ability as Dez Bryant.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

I'm convinced some people just don't simply watch the games.

Two wide:

X - AJ Green - The most skilled and fastest deep-threat receiver in the NFL today and the best it has seen since... well, it has been a while. With a capable QB such as Dalton throwing to him, Green's career will rival the great DT receivers like James Lofton, Drew Pearson and Jerry Rice. He's faster than all of those guys, taller and with far better jumping ability. He could be the best ever.

Z - Mohammed Sanu - The best possession WR cinci has seen since Touraj. Hands? Hands??? This guy has EIGHT hands. ZERO DROPS. ZERO. Sure hands, exceptional strength and above all, exceptional FOOTBALL speed. With no visible flaws in his route running, this is your #2 WR from the pro set.

Three wide:

H/Y - Andrew Hawkins - Sure hands, good ability, elite speed from the position, excellent cutback/CoD ability, exceptional strength for his size, ability to break and branch tackles after contact... uhm... slot. Please. Thank you. If Gruden works this guy into the offense more next year (PROPERLY), what he contributes to the offense would be no less than that of what Welker does in NE.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:59 PM
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fredtoast fredtoast is offline
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Default Re: Realistic view of the receiving corp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Demagii View Post
Sorry OSUfan but Sanu will only get free via a scheme, he lacks top end speed to run by defenders,and lacks quick feet and swivel hips to separate ala Wes Welker or Steve Largent (to get deep). One report specifically cited that he will not get free via double moves and /or fakes. This is pretty damning. Also his route running was cited as "lazy." He is cited as an effective red zone target, and "first down getter."
Sorry, Ian, but it is impossible for a WR to be an "effective red zone target" or "first down getter" if he has no way to get open. That just doesn't make any sense.

Sanu has all the skills that TJ had, and he worked our pretty well as a #2 WR opposite Chad.
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